This is my main gripe. I would like it to be a command and thus I wouldn’t ever do it by accident.
Despite it being “bullshit” Adon was still not top tier…I don’t really see why they had to remove it, or like another poster suggested, why not just make it a few frames faster?
Close HK as a command normal would be amazing for two reasons: stop whiffing when you meant to do regular HK, and as an anti-air it’s harder to punish than RJ so I can see how you might feel better using it in some situations.
Which is why I said, they should have given Adon at least 1 frame faster wake up. Adon can’t abuse fast wake up but still have a good wake up game.
RJ is worst in this game than in any of the Alpha series, people rather use df+mk in the A2 to anti air because it’s low risk and almost guaranteed due to how it shrinks his hurt box.
It shrinks his hurt box in SF4 too and the hit box is nuts. So it would act like a c.FP from the shotos aka mexican upper. One way I would use it is to counter Blanka’s rainbow roll like how Fei Long, ryu, etc can just cls.fp or c.fp when Blanka does a rainbow roll.
Whoa, indeed that’s quite the hitbox.
I don’t agree RJ sucks in this game. 6 frames of inv is probably much more than he ever had. I tried to use RJ for antiair in A2 and it simply didn’t work. The SF4 leniency helps with doing it ultra late, though, so there’s also that.
Granted I still don’t understand why they couldn’t give him proper inv. on the LK and MK jags instead of lame upper/lower crap. HK is risky on the ground since one pixel off and you can’t cancel it. MK with 4 frames (right to the hit) would be perfect.
Given the hitbox, it could probably be used for specific things. I still wouldn’t use it for antiair, though, because as a close antiair, HK RJ is virtually flawless. The only risks are empty jumps outside distance, and with a normal that doesn’t reach far away, your’re going to get SPDed or whathever when they land, regardless.
In the Alpha series, LK RJ have the most invincibility not HK and it also have much more range. Maybe that is what is throwing you off.
I thought Adon still had faster wakeup, just not 7 frames anymore. And yes, many characters have different wakeup time (Blanka actually gets up slower I think). But 7 frames isn’t just a “difficult” timing to safejump; it’s impossible to safejump in some situations. For me, and this is a concession, if I get hit, the opponent deserves their momentum. The best way to avoid getting safejumped for every character is to not get knocked down in the first place.
The Jutting Kick as a command normal is useful in the same way that Guile’s anti-air punches are. They’re safer, and the fact that they recover faster means you can move forward before the opponent lands and you can be the first one to act. An invincible anti-air special may win in almost situation, but a good anti-air normal can give you more momentum.
I’ve been using a similar trick with close s.jab. Against some jump-ins, the jab will flip them back and recover fast enough that I can actually land an ambiguous cross-up as soon as they hit the ground. Problem is, close s.jab isn’t very meaty, and loses to high-priority jump-ins. So I’d love to have Jutting Kick as an extra option against, say, Dudley’s elbows, because it reaches further and can hit before he actually goes into the animation… except he’s not close enough at that point to trigger the Jutting Kick animation, so it’s useless in that situation. You can’t do it on command.
No, his wake up is normalized. And of course the best way to win is not lose.
I did not know that.
And yes, Adon’s got an odd zoning game and tons of corner pressure, so I don’t see why he needs a wake-up gimmick to win matches. He could use some extra health to help with those Hawk and Gief matchups, though. A lot of times you trade hits in the footsie game, and that’s pure disadvantage.
I was also under the impression he has a ‘fast’ wakeup, like a few characters. Oh well!
Personally im pretty annoyed at the mk change and I havent even started using it. I have been grabbed out of the cr.lp close st.hp frame trap a few times now, but it doesnt seem to happen with close mk. 
Maybe we should all complain to Ono via twitter? haha
Adon have “fast” wake up after a knockdown that have him faced down like 2-3 frames faster but there are maybe a handful of knockdowns that causes face down knockdown. One I can think of is SPD.
I always thought Adon had the fast wake up to compensate his below average stamina, he’s not a woman, I don’t understand why he still doesn’t have 1000 stamina.
I think his wake up is still faster that average when I try the setup after the backthrow, one step back and jump forward mk, I eat the rising jaguar almost every time, it works against Fei and Sagat, against almost 5 frames reversal.
I almost never use the close mk and been grabbed out the st hp is really frustrating, and it’s happened with the close mk too sometimes, I should try with the close mp which seems not punishable if the opponent doesn’t know Adon.
I really hope to see others videos to analyse the changements about the rising jaguar.
Agreed on that, tbh if they want to make close mp viable they should lower it t 3 or 4f of recovery… 6 is just insane, especially when the move isnt actually that useful imo! I almost never use it!
So if you do a quick standing (tap down) you get a faster wake up, but a hard knockdown like a throw is normal speed?
I don’t think quick standing has anything to do with it. The requirement for “fast” wake up is that Adon has to be laying on his stomach aka faced down. Do a SPD on Adon with Gief and sweep Adon and you’ll see the difference. Yang also has some funky shit when he’s left faced down after a knockdown, he gets 28 frames of invulnerability if the player don’t touch the control or press any button when he’s getting up. Try it out, SPD yang then try to hit him.
That safe jump set up is very inconsistent due to human error. Try forward throw, dash forward once, safe jump with mk/hp/hk. That is a 5 frame reversal safe jump, that means it only works on reversals that have 5f+ of start up, anything quicker than that and it’ll lose. It will beat reversal from Sagat, Viper, Seth, Cammy, Adon but loses to Fei Long, Yun, Yang, Gen (LK DP), Ibuki (EX DP, Ibuki gets up faster too),
Since apparently the 2012 changes are not yet set in stone, should we spam capcom forums and ono twitter for adon buffs?
It seems very clear that adon is a worse character since the wakeup nerf, and the buffs to normals is not enough to make up for it.
What would be one single change that would affect his matchups in a positive way?
I’ve been saying this for a long time but I think increased range on sweeps would affect most of his bad matchups. It seems like nothing but it would make it easier to punish problematic high pokes like bison stand HK at a distance, it would make it easier to zone gief (sweep is already good against him, it just has shit range) would make it easier to punish characters walking backwards (boxer). Unlike most sweeps, adon’s can be used as a poke because of the good recovery, I think buffing it would help.
The other two things would be making LK RJ BnBs more reliable and making HK RJ a better ground reversal. But it seems they have taken steps towards that even if it remains to be seen how effective they will be.
HK RJ is annoying because sometimes you do not intend to actually hit it. You just want dangerous mixup characters off your face at the cost of two bars. But due to the horrible range and tight cancel window, you cannot FADC it. Coupled with his bad backdash, it makes adon very vulnerable to frame traps and up close mixups (cody, guy, etc).
None of the changes would affect the honda matchup, but hey, every character needs hard matches.
I don’t think you could make jaguar kicks safe against grapplers without affecting the rest of his matchups. Then again maybe you could, -2 to -1 is not a huge difference, especially if players are good at timing their normals off blockstun.
The range on Adon’s C.hk isn’t all that bad. I checked that hitbox data and it’s longer than Ryu’s C.mk and Fei Long’s C.hk (couldn’t find Ryu’s C.hk). The problem with Adon’s C.hk is that it has a HUGE start up and very little active frames. It makes it very hard to use to whiff punish and OS sweep.
The single change that would buff Adon drastically is lowing the start up on C.hk. Adon would achieve broken status if it was lowered by 3 frames (6f start up). Cls. lp > sweep, Cls.mp > sweep (cls.mp would actually be worth using), IAJK > sweep would be 100% easier and C.hk would be the best normal in Adon’s arsenal but I think that would be alittle too much. 7f start up would be good so you would only be able to sweep after a counter hit from cls.lp/mp.
I guess making sweep faster would work. Most likely even better. It would be good to improve it in some way, not very obvious/broken. Not many people are gonna bitch because a character sweep got 2 frames faster or got a better hitbox.
Fei sweep has pretty shit range anyway and it’s one thing fei players complain about, lack of options to punish people walking backwards. You can combo it so that’s good but it’s another subject. Ryu sweep range is much bigger but is not used in the same way as the recovery is much, much worse.
Making sweep faster would also give him a better punisher for some things.
I agree on a sweep buff, maybe even a slightly better backdash? alot of people with awesome forward dashes have good backdashes… but Adons is terrible imo. Personally id like it if cr.lp was +6 frames not +5 but maybe thats me being a noob heh!
+50hp!! cant believe they have left him with 950… originally it was fair, now id say it wasnt, but then I feel he is stronger than characters of similar size and they still have 950.
Actually, that reminds me of another serious problem Adon has against Gief and Hawk: he has no block strings. If Shotos mash out DPs, you can bait and punish them, but against Gief and Hawk they can do a command grab. Doing a safejump on either of them is actually giving THEM a 50/50 mixup because you can’t do anything more than a jab and then GTFO. You can hope to bait the command grab with a backdash, but the OTHER problem is that since Adon has low health, Gief and Hawk don’t necessarily have to take a risk if they have the life lead.
I would suggest adding one frame advantage to close s.lp. It’s not huge, and against some characters it would be negligible, but against Gief and Hawk at least, you could do close s.lp x2, c.lp. This would give you a little distance and more time to react to whether they blocked the safejump. Adon’s got good zoning, but his damage potential is mostly in his mixups into RJ combos. Losing that damage potential is what makes the matchup seem so hopeless. You’ve got to out-footsie them early on before they get a life lead, and if you don’t, you have no way of getting in; they can turtle and hide behind s.mp all day.
Tip for the day: cls.lp can be chained, that means it’s a safe block string. And just like every chainable normals, you can chain out of it. Which means:
Cls.lp > s.lp
Cls.lp > c.lp
Cls.lp > s.lk
Cls.lp > c.lk
as well as Cls.lp x2/3 are all safe block strings. Theoretically, you can j.hk, cls.lp x2, c.lp and it’s all safe, IF it doesn’t push back too much.