Absolute Noobie (What Stick to Buy) Thread

Obligatory link to previous thread.

Please check out this thread for a comprehensive list of quality posts.

If you have execution questions then please check out this thread.

Intro by Starcade RIP.

Welcome to the world of arcade sticks!

Many fighting game fans, both casual and competitive, decide at some point to ditch the pad for an arcade stick. At one time, the options for American consumers were very limited, but following the release of Street Fighter 4 and subsequent revitalization of the fighting game scene, many new products are available on the market.

Why use a stick in the first place?

Simply put, most fighting game fans find them to be the superior control method. The stick itself is generally considered to be more precise and fluid than a d-pad. Having access to six (or eight) buttons on the control panel is also extremely useful for many advanced techniques in a variety of games. Some of the older, grizzled veterans also prefer them as they grew up playing on arcade parts. The ‘authentic feel’ is very important to them.

That being said, when most people first change to a stick from a pad, they find their execution suffers in the short-term. This is totally normal! It takes most people a few weeks of practice to get used to playing on a stick. Spend some time in training mode before considering going back to pad, or altering your stick in some manner. You will adjust.

What is the best stick?

The truth is there is no ‘best’ stick. The answer is subjective. The important thing is understand the differences, so you can make good decisions for yourself.

What is the difference between Japanese and American parts?

In short, Japanese parts tend to be more sensitive and responsive. American parts typically require more effort to move and engage button commands. People generally view Japanese parts to be of higher build quality. That doesn’t mean they are necessarily ‘better.’ Most of the top Japanese and American players use Japanese arcade parts.

On top of that, these days pretty much all of the commercially available off-the-shelf arcade sticks use Japanese arcade hardware, so they are easier to find.

What is the difference between Sanwa, Seimitsu, and other manufacturers?

Sanwa and Seimitsu are the two largest producers of Japanese arcade hardware. Which should you get? Ideally, try both out and decide which you prefer. If that isn’t an option for you, just get a stick with Sanwa parts. The Madcatz TE stick is full Sanwa stick and buttons and most of the Hori Real Arcade Pro (HRAP) line has a Sanwa stick at minimum. Seimitsu parts also have a lot of fans, but really, you can’t go wrong with Sanwa.

As far as American parts go, ironically the best American parts currently come from a European company, iL. If you’d like to know more about Sanwa, Seimitsu, and the other arcade part companies, consult the essentials thread.

What stick should I buy?

Scroll down for an extensive guide by Darksakul.

Mini-FAQ. Please help to improve this. It is not intended to be comprehensive.

Q: What’s the difference in American and Japanese sticks? Which should I choose?
A: This site has a bias toward Japanese sticks and buttons. Japanese parts are also used in every commercially released stick for this generation of consoles. They’re also used by most tournament players. That being said, theres absolutely nothing wrong with using an American stick. If you’re trying to recreate the old arcade feel get a Street Fighter 15th Anniversary stick and upgrade it with Happ/iL parts (or a custom like Arcade in a Box).

Q: Should I use a Sanwa or Seimitsu stick?
A: There’s no right answer to this question. Its a matter of preference. Sanwa sticks are generally preferred for fighting games and are what the SF4 arcade cabinet and Mad Catz TE stick use. Seimitsu sticks are also great for fighters and are widely used in the shooter community due to their harder spring and shorter throw. Try both if you can so you can form your own opinion.

Q: What about buttons? Sanwa or Seimitsu?
A: Same as above: Sanwa are used on SF4/TE. That being said, Sanwa buttons are fairly sensitive. If you’re used to resting your fingers on the buttons then Seimitsu offer more resistance.

Q: Whats the different between a Square and Octagonal gate?
A: The gate restricts the movement of Japanese joysticks. If you’re initially shocked by the square feel of a Japanese stick then you may want to give an octagonal gate a try. It will have a rounder feel. This also boils down to preference. Most people recommend practicing enough with a square gate to get used to it since it is the norm. Try both to see which you prefer.

Q: Can I use a bat top on my stick?
A: The Sanwa bat top fits on both Sanwa and Seimitsu sticks.

Q: What parts should I use to upgrade my Mad Catz SE stick to match the TE?
A: Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT-SK Ball Handle Joystick and Sanwa OBSF-30 Pushbuttons

Q: Can I use my PS3 stick on the 360 or visa versa?
A: No, the 360 has a security scheme that only allows licensed controllers. Wired 360 controllers will also not work on the PS3 because they are not HID (driverless) devices. There are converters available from XCM that convert between the two systems but they are not recommended for fighting games due to compatibility issues and dropped button inputs.

Q: What type of stick should I purchase for PC use?
A: Most PS3 and 360 sticks will work fine. Microsoft provides Windows controller drivers for the 360 so these normally work without issues while the PS3 sticks may require workarounds. There are also plenty of PS2 to USB converters if you own an older PS2 stick.

The “what stick/controller should I get” Guide.

I will come back and edit and update this thread as needed so if you spot something wrong, let me know. And you other experts on Tech Talk, feel free to add your own wisdom and insight.

Keep in mind I am purposely leaving out limited edition collectors sticks.
At no time I will rate Sanwa or Seimitsu with each other or IL and Happs, or Japanese vs US/European vs Korean style parts.

Before I start with the cool part of this guide, we will first cover three more important objectives.
And what you need to consider above all else.
[LIST]
[]Needs
[
]**Wants **
[*]Budget
[/LIST]
Needs. This covers what you absolutely have to have, strip down and basic. With any purchase this is what you should think of first. When it comes to Video Game controls this is usually covered by the Default game pad, only a few games require specialized controls or controls modified for those who have special needs. Example a One handed controller for a gamer who only have one useable arm.
I am assuming most people reading this guide now are hardcore fighter or arcade game fans who the regular d-pad is not cutting it for you, as we all hear complaints over the Xbox 360 or PS3 D-pad.

Wants. This is what you have your heart set for. For most people this is your end results.

Budget. This is how much money you have to spend. Budget is the more realistic and sobering part of the purchase process. Typically a stick will run you 60 to 250 dollars U.S. retail this figure will change with what the normal market price is in your region of the world.
Any stick you find less than $50 is not worth your money and breaks easy. Sticks more than $200 are no longer considered Beginner Sticks.

Keep in mind if you are broke (Budget), and the default game pad works fine enough for you (Need) that these 2 will and should over ride your Wants.

Now I am also going to cover other features of each stick/ controller here. These factors are also important to cover but goes secondary to the above. I be using this on almost every stick I list here.
[LIST]
[]Quality
[
]Reliability
[]Ease of Modification
[
]Purpose or special use
[/LIST]
Quick Short Cuts
Mad Catz
Hori
Sega
American/ European Style , Korean Style, Qanba and others

Unless otherwise noted, each sticks are for the PS3 and the Xbox 360.

Difficulty Scale for Modding
From a scale of 1 to 5. This will factor in installing Buttons, Joysticks and replacement panels, and to a lesser extend PCB replacement.
This will not factor actual Dual-mods, replacement art or any painting.
[LIST=1]
[]Easy: Standard parts drops right into place, reasonable access to all parts.
[
]Medium Easy: Still uses standard parts, access can be difficult/ time consuming
[]Moderate Difficulty: Requires minor case modding or appropriate mount plates
[
]Medium hard: Requires some physical tool use to fit parts into place.
[*]Hard: Requires Heavy modding using tools to cut, grind or drill to fit replacement parts.
[/LIST]
Last but not least I ask readers to go outside of this thread and do your research. Read reviews here on SRK and reviews on online stores and in magazines. Weigh the Pros and Cons before deciding which stick to get.

Mad Catz Sticks

Street Fighter IV SE. $59.99
A basic 8 button arcade stick controller.

Quality**:** Not bad overall, the stick body is nice and sturdy. The Joystick and buttons are clones of Sanwa Parts so actual Sanwa parts are perfect drop in replacements. Earlier releases of the SFIV SE stick have reported issues with the PCB or Printed Circuit board.

Reliability**:** Except for the above mentioned PCB this stick is not bad. Perfect for a low cost beginner stick.

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1. Sanwa parts are perfect drop in replacements and Seimitsu parts would also work well. PCB replacement is do-able because of the space underneath . Only replacement art is for the top panel is diffcult to replace due to the bent int he angle of the top panel, plexy is not an option here.

Tatsunoko vs. Capcom (Wii) $59.99
Same body and lay out of the Street Fighter IV SE, but uses a different PCB dew to being made for the Nintendo Wii.

Quality**:** Slightly better than the SFIV SE.

Reliability: No reports of the Default Wii board dying

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1.same as the SE.

WWE Brawl SE. $79.99
Similar to the above two. Same Body design and clone Sanwa parts, the Brawl stick as higher quality Stick and buttons that the other two.

Quality: Better than the SFIV SE and on par if not better to the TvC

Reliability: Mad Catz have improved with their PCB design so there no reported PCB failure.

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1. Same as the SE and the TvC.

Mad Catz Tournament Edition **
I am purposely leaving out some of the more rare TE variations such as the Evo and Comic-Con edition sticks
,** as I do not recommend collector items for a beginners stick.

Wider than the SE, with out the slant edge

Round 1 TE $149,99
Type 1, 1st gen TE. Wider layout than the SE, with a leveled flat top.
Red IV artwork. This is the TE that had the most issues with the PCB.

As with the Xbox 360 versions, they possess a xbox 360 mic port, the PS3 version lack the mic port. On the PS3 TEs instead of the mic port its place a small “square plug” is found in the plastic housing, This is normal. First of the First Gen TE sticks.

Quality: High better than the SE/ TvC series, Full Sanwa Parts

Reliability: Has many issues with the PCB, this was improved with later versions of the TE.
Also it been reported that the door to the cable compartment can break.

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1. Uses standard Sanwa parts so it easy to mod. Plenty of 3rd party options for modding such as replacement panels and side pieces. Most common sticks to mod here on Tech Talk.

**TE Round 2 **$149,99
Type 2, 1st gen TE. Has SFIV Character Artwork. Slightly more reliable PCB but still has minor issues.
Quality: High better than the SE/ TvC series, Full Sanwa Parts. Better out of the 2 First gen TE sticks,

Reliability: Also it been reported that the door to the cable compartment can break.

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1

PCB Issues and the TE.
Xbox 360 version: For you modders, when you open up your stick, printed on the board should be its Revision Version printed on the board. If you have Rev A, that is the problem board. If you have Rev B you will be fine. Rev A = bad. Rev B = Good.

PS3 Version: Because of USB protocol encoding or rather the kind of encoding use, The PS3 version of the TE has issues operating on PCs with Non-Intel USB controllers chipsets.
I am not sure if this is limited to AMD chipsets or this is all Non-Intel.

**Marvel VS Capcom 2 TE **$159,99
MvC 2 variation of the Round 2 Stick. Features MvC2 art. slightly modified PCB swaps the Ls and Rs buttons around, Hence different Button Mappings.

Quality: High Same as Round 2, Full Sanwa Parts.

Reliability: it been reported that the door to the cable compartment can break.

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1

“Asian” TE (Xbox 360) Discontinued
Same as the Round 1 TE. White and Silver Stick, lacks any game art.

Quality: High Same as Round 1, Full Sanwa Parts.

Reliability: N/A

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1

BlazBlue TE $159.99
Basically the same as the Round 2 TE, has alternate button mapping (for BlazBlu) and BlazBlu Art.

Quality: High Same as Round 2, Full Sanwa Parts.

Reliability: it been reported that the door to the cable compartment can break.

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1

MvC3 TE $159.99
Same as Round 2 and MvC2

Quality: High Same as Round 2, Full Sanwa Parts.

Reliability: it been reported that the door to the cable compartment can break.

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1

TE “S” $159.99
Updated shell with extra screw by the turbo panel. Possess much better PCB. Uses the “extended size top Panel”

Quality: High, improved over the Round 2.

Reliability: None yet

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1

Chung Li PAX TE “S” $159.99
The same TE S body but in transparent blue instead of White or Black. No Borders.
Overall same construction as the TE S

Quality: High same as Regular TE S.

Reliability: None yet

Ease of Mods: Difficulty 1

Additional Info on the Mad Catz TE series. courtesy of D3v.

Hori Stick section
Leaving out rare limited edition and game theme sticks.

Quick identification key
SE: Special Edition. All Seimitsu Parts
SA: Special Addition. All Sanwa Parts

Fighting Stick EX2
Quality: Different Case than the HRAP series. Metal top and bottom panels give the case strength but poor quality buttons.
Reliability: Reports of the PCB acting up.
Ease of Mod: Difficult

Fighting Stick Wii
Quality: Different Case than the HRAP series. Metal top and bottom panels give the case strength but poor quality buttons.
Reliability: Better than its Xbox 360 Conterpart.
Ease of Mod: Semi-difficult?

HRAP 2 SA (PS2) Discontinued.
White and Grey controller for the PS2. Sanwa stick and buttons.
Quality: Very sturdy and heavy case. Stock buttons are not that great.
Reliability: No reports I seen of any issues.
Ease of Mod: NA

HRAP EX (Xbox 360) $130.99
Black color scheme, Sanwa JLF stick and Hori buttons.
Quality: Very sturdy and heavy case. Stock buttons are not that great.
Reliability: No reports I seen of any issues.
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 2. Top panel requires bottom panel to be removed first. Non-common ground PCB. Buttons can be replaced with Sanwa or Seimitsu buttons easily. Dose not fit some Seimitsu sticks.

HRAP 3 $129.99
Black case with Red Ball top and face buttons, select and start are yellow.Sanwa JLF stick and Hori buttons.
Quality: Very sturdy and heavy case. Stock buttons are not that great.
Reliability: No reports I seen of any issues.
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 2. Top panel requires bottom panel to be removed first. Buttons can be replaced with Sanwa or Seimitsu buttons easily.

HRAP 3 SA (PS3) $129.99 on Amazon
mirror top panel,
Quality: Very sturdy and heavy case. Sanwa Buttons and Stick
Reliability: No reports I seen of any issues.
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 2. Top panel requires bottom panel to be removed first. Non-common ground PCB. Buttons can be replaced with Sanwa or Seimitsu buttons easily.

HRAP 1 versions A & B (PS2)
Sanwa JLF stick and Hori buttons
Quality: Very sturdy and heavy case. Stock buttons are not very good.
Reliability: No reports I seen of any issues.
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 2/3. Top panel requires bottom panel to be removed first. Compatible with converters. Issues in mounting Seimitsu joysticks.

Wireless Fighting Stick (PS3)
Quality: case is light but sturdy, Buttons could be better.
Reliability: Reported concerns with drop inputs
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 2

Real Arcade Pro.VX $191.90
Quality: Very good
No issues to report
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 2

Real Arcade Pro.V3 $149.90
Quality: Very good
No issues to report
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 2

HORI Real Arcade PRO.EX VLX $299.95
Quality: Top of the line good
Reliability: No issues to report
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 1 maybe 2.

Reference Link

Sega Arcade Sticks Under construction

Sega Virtua Stick HSS-0130 (Saturn or Dreamcast) Discontinued
Large 2 Player controller appears similar to many Astrocity Arcade control Panels.

Sega Virtua Stick HSS-0133
Similar to above

Virtua Stick High Grade (PS3)
Minimalistic when it comes to art or features. Where this stick shines is in performance.
Quality: Very good
Reliability: No issues to report
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 2

American/ European Style Sticks

**X-Arcade series **(PC/PS2) Requires adapters for PS3 and Xbox 360 play

X-Arcade Tankstick + Trackball $199.95
2 Player Stick with a track ball in the middle.

X-Arcade Dual Joystick $129.99
2 Player Stick

**X-Arcade Solo Joystick **$99.95
1 Player stick.

**Quality: **Wooden case is very sturdy. Although many complain on the quality of buttons and joysticks used. Used clones of Happ Parts.
Reliability: No reports I seen for the PCB, main complain I saw was the low quality for the Joystick and buttons.
Ease of Mod: NA

**Mortal Kombat PDP Arcade Stick **$129.99 for stick alone or $149.99 for the MK Tournament edition (comes with MK game). Not Recommended for non-MK Games.
Quality: Very sturdy and heavy MDF. Uses Custom happ parts.
**Reliability: **No issues reported
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 3. Accepts Happ and IL parts. Dual-Mod not possible with stock PCB.
Specialty: Mortal Kombat Layout

**Nuby Tech Street Fighter Anniversary Collection Stick **(PS2, Xbox) Discontinued
Quality: Similar to X-arcade. Both have decient wooden construction but cheap Happ knock off parts.
Reliability: NA
Ease of Mod: Difficulty 3. Accepts Happ/ IL Parts.

Korean Style

Saulabi: For Powerful Game
Korean Wooden Stick [Saulabi] (PS2) $55
Basic Wooden Stick housing, uses basic Saulabi parts.
Quality: I will get back on this.
Reliability: No issues reported. Reported Incompatibility issues with various converters.
Ease of Mod: 3 or 4 rating due to buttons soldered to a PCB. Replaceable with Korean parts, could get away with Japanese Buttons.

Saulabi SPS-3000 (PS2) $60
Large Plastic Housing.
Quality: Very Good case, generic buttons.
Reliability: No issues reported.
Ease of Mod: 3 or 4 rating due to buttons soldered to a PCB. Replaceable with Korean parts, could get away with Japanese Buttons.

Saulabi 4K (PS3) $60
Large Plastic Housing.
Quality: Very Good case, generic buttons.
Reliability: No issues reported.
Ease of Mod: 3 or 4 rating due to buttons soldered to a PCB. Replaceable with Korean parts, could get away with Japanese Buttons (needs more info on Japanese buttons in Saulabi stick).

Paewang Revolution (PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 on same PCB) $55
White Plastic Stick.Valued more for the PCB than the rest of the Stick. eTokki does offer the PCB separately.
Quality: Not that great but not terrible plastic case, knock off buttons and Stick.
Reliability: PCB is good, Rest of the parts are not worth hanging on too.
Ease of Mod: 2/3. Buttons has there own daughter board but since this is not the main pcb, this board can be ditched for direct wiring. The main PCB the one really useful part is the smaller of the 2 boards.

Chinese made sticks
**Qanba **Q2 $164.29 on *DealExtreme *(PC,PS3, Xbox 360)

Vewlix clone style stick.
Quality: Comparable to Top line Hori and Madcatz Sticks? Deal Extreme claims its Full Sanwa.
Reliability: NA
Ease of Mod: 1 or 2? Easy Access and appears to accept stock parts.

**Qanba ****Q3 **(PC,PS3, Xbox 360)
Vewlix clone style stick.
Quality: Comparable to Top line Hori and Madcatz Sticks? Full Sanwa
Reliability: NA
Ease of Mod: 1 or 2? Easy Access and appears to accept stock parts.

**Qanba ****Q4 **$228.70* On DealExtreme *(PC,PS3, Xbox 360)
Vewlix clone style stick.
Quality: Comparable to Top line Hori and Madcatz Sticks? Deal Extreme claims its Full Sanwa
Focus Attack confirms this claim.
Reliability: NA
Ease of Mod: 1 or 2? Easy Access and appears to accept stock parts.

**Custom Sticks. **System and cost varies greatly with each.
Minimum cost about $75 for a DIY project, as much as $500 for some of the better made pro sticks. These sticks will greatly vary with the construction, parts used, PCB used and the Skills of the person building it. Customs goes outside of the scope of this guide.

See Info Thread: Rules, FAQs and Tutorials Inside. (READ THIS BEFORE HITTING THAT NEW THREAD BUTTON!) on various guide on building your own stick.

Conclusion.
Reading down this guide gives you basic information on each stick. I encourage future buyers to do additional research on there stick before continuing.

My top picks. (Each Category is 1st on top scaling down)

Budget Stick Choices:
Mad Catz SE series $59.99
Hori HRAP 1,2,3,EX $130
Mad Catz TE $149.99

Modding Projects (Japanese Stye Parts):
Mad Catz TE $149.99
Mad Catz TE S $159.99 to 179.99
Mad Catz SE $59.99
Hori VLX $299.95

Modding Projects (US/Euro Stye Parts): PS I don’t recommend US/Euro Parts to newbies.
Custom Case (I am serious), maybe a MAS or a similar small company Stick.
Nuby Tech SF Stick (Somewhat of a collectors item)
X-Arcade (I hate the lay out by the way).

Modding Projects (Korean Style):
Tie: Saulabi SPS 3000 and Saulabi 4k $139.99

My view on Overseas Imports.
Nice but for a beginner I feel (for the most part) a beginner needs to stick to what they can find Domestically. This does not apply to Regions of the World where you been SOL over ordering good sticks.

Canadians read this for more info
FAQ: Buying Sticks/Parts in Canada

One note on the Paewang Revolution . If memory serves, the buttons aren’t really soldered on. They use carbon contact pads (no microswitch). That part of the PCB still gets tossed and soldering is done at the smaller main PCB board.

Everything else is just about right (rubbish parts, decent enough case, great PCB for dual modding). Not sure that would affect the mod rating of this one

I was thinking about the wrong Korean stick’s board for the buttons. One thing I dislike with Crown and crown clone buttons.

Great guide, should help a lot of people.

Some excessive use of question marks though ;).
.
“The ?authentic feel? is very important to them.
That doesn?t mean they are necessarily ?better.?
?iL.? If you?d”

I fixed these. The new forum software formatted it that way for whatever reason.

I’m entirely unsure if this is the place to ask, so I apologize.

but what plastic are TEs made from? It seems the shell and the sides are different plastics (In that the sides are of a harder plastic)