Abel Moveset and Attributes

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
701

I hate to have to take apart a statement that should be so right, but it’s wrong in this case.

Blocking a jump-in is not ok. It’s better than getting hit in the face but, considering how bad Abel can get rushed down, only barely. People talk about footsies and AA’s like they’re separate things, but they aren’t. If you’re trying to space some dude out to get your offense going, and then that dude just jumps in for free, he just took a big shit on all your hard work, and made you look like a complete idiot. You don’t even have to input a real motion, you just press down and forward kick and cleanly beat 90% of the jump-ins in this game.

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The first fight is me barely beating Vance(double 720…), and the second is me losing to my local Ryu player in the same tournament (embarassing, I know). Besides the obvious whiffed ultra on the Ryu and careless button presses against Vangief, you can attribute the source of each lost round in those videos to one key point in the match: when I missed an anti-air.

Once again, low forward will beat almost every jump attack in this game. It will trade with early shoto fierces and a couple other things, and can sometimes lose to dive kicks, Honda’s jump strong, and Bison’s jump fierce. For those moves, cr. fierce is better to force the trade into a potential pop-up, and falling sky is also a possibility. If you have the meter, I would always recommend the EX version just to make sure, but i’m surprised that people recommend using jab FS. I’ve only ever gotten any real use out of strong FS; I always stick out the jab version too early and die when i’ve tried.

Abel’s anti-air game is far too strong to just block jump-ins like it’s not a huge fuck up on your part. Because that’s what it is: a fuck up.

702

that’s pretty much all I was getting at, but for the sake of arguing (just to play devil’s advocate):

eh, well lets weigh out the options. If you block, you have to worry about throw, frame trap, dive kick*, command throw*, overhead*. If you use an AA and it gets stuffed + hard knockdown, you have to worry about your opponents oki… which allows for a lot more options. Just by playing the numbers game, your options are less when you block.

you make it sound like Abel has the hardest time against up close pressure. Everyone does. Dealing with it is different from character to character, but your opponent still has the same options.

btw, i wouldn’t attribute your losses due to missing an AA. there are more important key factors than that.

Im not saying, “rely on blocking more so than your AA game,” but, if you’re in a situation where it’s hard for you to gauge whether or not you can beat out a jump-in, blocking is a safer option instead of risking getting an AA stuffed. it’s a good idea in that you’re not risking life on your health bar, plain and simple. can you really argue against that? it’s a fact. there are times where you need to gamble, so of course there are exceptions.

703

I had no intention of implying that you’re advocating just blocking jump-ins; it’s simply that I don’t agree with even talking about blocking in a discussion about anti-airs. It defeats the purpose. I like this though, so i’ll continue:

“you make it sound like Abel has the hardest time against up close pressure”

The real problem behind blocking jump-in’s isn’t the up close pressure; it’s the shift in momentum. Now, rather than being in a neutral situation where your opponent has to worry about the threat of step kick, they’re in your face and doing whatever they want. Now you’re going to have to work your ass off just to get back to where you started. Back to neutral. If i’m going to be working, I prefer to actually be getting something done, rather than just making up lost ground.

Beyond all of the theory behind the consequences of blocking a jump-in, it’s simply not good advice for a player asking for help with his anti-air. It’s not only unhelpful; it actually goes 100% against the kind of mentality he’s going to need to develop his AA game. Being able to anti-air requires spacing, timing, reactions and, ideally, a bit of prediction. These qualities are only going to be developed properly if he challenges every jump-in, every time. Blocking the jump-in doesn’t teach you anything. Sure, MAYBE the cr. fierce he was thinking of would have been stuffed, but now he’ll never know, or at least he won’t until the next time comes around. Even worse, if that situation does roll around again, he’s already implanted the thought of blocking in his head, and that shit’s hard to get out.

I started rambling somewhere along the line, but the real issue behind blocking is that you don’t learn anything from doing it. The reality is that we’re not talking about Grand Finals of a tournament right now. If the dude was capable of getting that far in a real tournament, he wouldn’t be posting on here asking about how to anti-air. Because he’s really got nothing to lose in a tournament, he is better off challenging every jump-in, even if he loses horribly because of it. As far as i’m concerned, that’s the only way to build strong fundamentals in anything, and AA’ing is one of the most fundamental aspects of this game.

Oh, and low forward. If you have no idea what to AA with, you use low forward. It only trades or loses with dive kicks, and maybe like 5 normal jump-ins in the game. Low forward.

704

I agree, but i don’t know if what im saying is coming across the wrong way.

I already said most of that in my first, condensed post. The idea that AA is spacing dependent, character dependent, and anticipation/prediction (i guess i missed timing)-- and that there are going to be scenarios where you’re going to have to guess or just block, and blocking would be a good, viable option because you aren’t getting hit/it’s “safe”. I wasn’t really advocating that blocking is better, or at least i didn’t meant for it to be read that way. I did offer the option of relying on your reactions and getting an AA out to try and beat/trade with it, as well as looking at which AAs you should use depending on the spacing and/or character. he asked what was my go-to AA, and i couldn’t give him a straight answer because it all depends. I don’t know what he’s really having trouble with so my post was really, “go figure it out yourself.” I could’ve said low forward, but then he might not experiment with other AAs… oh wait… thats what you just said, except with blocking… yeah it sounds a little bit presumptuous or extreme, doesn’t it? im kidding… =p

with momentum, which upclose pressure is an ingredient of, there’s things you can learn from your opponent in that situation too (easier said than done, comes with experience), but that’s a whole other story.

all i’m saying is blocking, relative to getting hit, is a viable option.

i feel like we’re going in circles, lol.

705

vicious cycle lol

706

Fiddled around in training mode… made a discovery, worked for me… check this out…

Okizeme from ex falling sky: It give the same spacing off a TT, but abel gets a fuck ton more frame advantage… so to shoot out his 5 frame cr. jab so that it’ll counter hit them on their wake up cr. tech or cr. jab means that you have to have precise timing… (so it won’t get drowned out by the frame advantage)

meh… Found out that Cr. Medium kick (8 start up, 5 active) works Perfectly everytime… in other words :Ex Falling Sky xx Dash xx Short/Forward Roll - Cr. Medium kick = A Counter hit on all 3 frame jabs, and cr. techs… timing is very very very easy.

and for those of you that like to show off with fancy resets… Cr. medium kick also works as a super good meaty in the “Cr. Fierce - Roundhouse Roll, St. Jab (RESET), short roll” AND THE “Cr. Fierce, short roll, Cr Jab xx Dash” Set up.

-this is another way to stop cr. jabs on wake up… don’t need to depend on meter as much for that- :tup:

707

most of these threads have been doing this more or less since… maybe… month 6 of vanilla?

only a few times a year does anything really new come out of these threads, and usually when something new DOES turn up, its because somebody discovered it themselves, used it in a match, and then somebody else saw it on youtube or stream and then let us know

708

Here’s some videos showing what i’m talkin about:

Video angle is wack… if you guys like these, then sometime next week i’ll sit down with a buddy and we’ll get a cleaner shot.

Anti SPD:

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Anti Cr Tech and Cr. Jab mash:

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YES! you can use cr. jab instead of cr medium kick: Cr. Jab use takes timing and practice… cr medium kick’s frame data is so that you can pretty much hit it asap: pretty brain dead :zzz:

edit: another thing… TT xx dash , light roll… Step Kick = Counter hit SPD as well.

709

^that is dope. Thanks!

710

Shouldve tested it against gief other options too IMO, since wakeup reversal SPD isnt really something a good zangief will do alot against abel. From my experience, if a gief wanna do wakeup reversal command throw against abel mixups, they rarely ever do a normal SPD, always EX because reversal normal SPD kinda sucks as an option.

Nonetheless, good stuff, its never a bad thing to test things out and try to come up with new setups.

711

I need some inspiration for lab work until AE drops on console. I don’t know what else to explore with Abel, I’ve been messing around with Ken a lot.

712

OS vs Rufus

I’ve been messing around with this match-up for a while. There is a timing to land guaranteed Ultra vs Messiah even if he hits short for the flash kick. Just need to find a OS that abides by that time.

713

hey, what are you supposed to do when a step kick hits a croucher, and they are too short for close fierce? is there anything that links into COD combos from there?

714

On CH. only: st./cr. strong, cr. jab xx st. strong or you can go straight into cr. fierce(1-frame link). But regular step kick nothing links on small crouchers. Man I miss playing SF. Too much marvel madness.

715

thats pretty stupid. i thought my timing was off. had me plinking cr.short…

716

meh… 365 combo is the same. Tornados 10 less… Same mix up - Counter hit set ups. Everything is exactly as before

717

lol its like you totally ignored every posts made by people who have been playing ae(for months)…

you need to go training mode and find setups/counters against the top tiers.

718

point was to show how good of a meaty set up it is… showing that it can counter a 2 framer… it shows it can counter anything…

ya i know giefs don’t usually do that

719

yeah man no sweat its all good

still havent played that ae training mode though :frowning:

720

Just need to know, does Abel’s have an blok strings of of his crossup and step-kick? I keep playing a friend that was a 10,000 BP Fei and STILL MASHES! Everytim I cross him up on wakeup or just cross him up he either mashes Flame Kick or throw, so if I leave any holes I get hit by one of the two and I have to work for another knock-down. I’ll even bait it sometimes with back-dash but it seems like flame kick hits it. I guess the basic question is, what to do after a crossup/step-kick that’s is impossible to mash through, or does Able even have them?