not always true vs SPDs and such.
How could an SPD beat TT as Abel’s reversal unless they start the SPD on the EXACT frame yours hits? You have 4 frames throw invincibility on your wakeup. That means if SPD tries to hit you anytime in there, it whiffs, right?
You have the normal window for a reversal. It’s just weird because it’s hcb. Yes, you can buffer it, but you still have to time it close to the moment you wake up.
Lol no. Abel has no good reversals. No matter what Abel does your opponent gets a 50/50 on your wakeup. Either they grab (beats roll, EX TT, EX CoD, EX Wheel Kick, blocking, and any normal you might try to use) or they can neutral jump (beats your own grabs). They have better options than these, too, but I’m just saying that Abel has no ‘safe’ way out on wakeup.
To beat crouching jabs, do EX Tornado Throw, reversal jab super, or just block. Really, blocking is Abel’s best option on wakeup against maybe Zangief.
there is throw inv. on wakeup? I didn’t know that, seems odd as I throw people on their wakeup all the time.
Also, I don’t know how or why but meaty SPD will beat your reversal TT.
This is embarrassing but, i got my ass kicked hard last night by a few things.
1.) Dictator: Spamming headstomps. Skyfall is so worthless as an anti air. Half the time i would skyfall just a second to soon and even though it looked like dictator was in my hand it still whiffed. Too late and i just take a hit during the startup. (i ended up beating a dictator player by just jumping up and trading with Jmp.FP; he sent me a message after saying “you fucking suck you jump constantly” lol. - this same guy challenged me to a rematch and complained because i spammed grabs too much. lmao.) - anyway… headstomps are shitty.
2.) Gief: So sick of this fucking character. You only need 1 button on your stick to play gief. Just get a stick and a 3xPunch button and flail around like an asshole. I can wheelkick all of his lariats, i can land the occasional TT. But then he has ultra meter, and i get hit by his inescapable ultra and lose 70% of my health bar. … god damn annoying. That 3xPunch button is wonderful… lariat, lariat, jumpin fp, spd, lariat, lariat, jumpin fp, ultra… f that…
3.) Random jumping flowchart ken… I can’t do shit against this constant jumping HK ken scrubbery. I can try to jump up and FP him, but it often works in Kens favor. Skyfall is slow and worthless as an antiair. Just fucking embarrassing. cr.hp is slow, and i get hit out of it all the time, either that or it trades. - abel is just so fucking weak against air…
i lost 700bp in about an hour last night at around 3am… so i just said fuck it and went to sleep… i should just play gief… 3xpunch 3xpunch Spin Stick 3xpunch 3xpunch 3xpunch Spin Stick 3xpunch… sigh – abel has such a bad move set when it comes to anything anti-air.
J.fp and neutral jump hk will beat headstomp consistently if you do it immediately on reaction. And I can pull off the fp falling sky versus headstomp no problem with consistency. You just need to put it out with the right timing. It’s the best way to counter headstomp chip shenanigans short of backdashing. If you get him to whiff headstomp, he is completely vulnerable after that.
First, you can jump out of Zangief’s ultra, and it’s actually pretty hard to set up. It’s usually off a jump-in or on wake-up, and his ultra loses to meaty TT, so it’s not a big deal. Just don’t try to grab him when he jumps in or anything. You can usually reversal non-EX TT a Lariat on your wakeup, and you can always reversal EX TT it. You can also block, then sweep. cr.mp or cr.mk into rekka also punishes it. This matchup is not impossible, just really hard.
How does this work in Ken’s favor? If you do the FP early enough, you will BEAT his jumping HK. You an also wheel kick them out of the air. Or you can just let them jump themselves into the corner. Or you can roll twice and throw them on their way down. Jumping MK is also a great situational air-to-air.
I personally think air-to-air fierce is a great anti-air.
wakeup ex headstomp sucks but the others are very punishable. besides what kiku’ve said (beat it with j.hp/hk) you can just backdash/dash when he tries to headstomp and he WILL land infront of you, ready to be combod or command throw. i personally hate scissors kick combo more.
lol this is just a rant. =p.
kiku’ve said most of it but have you tried focusing?
i think you just had a bad day. thats all 
Every time i try to air-to-air jmp.fp against headstomp it trades (with more damage being done to me than to him.) - I should try the back dash though, i didn’t think of that and haven’t played against dictator since yesterday. I don’t have any problem with scissor kicks, i find them much easier to deal with.
As far as Gief’s ultra goes, i have a very very hard time jumping out of it. I can be holding up when the ultra animation starts and he will still get me with it. I don’t know what to say, i just can’t play against gief. Also, im not sure how to block and sweep the lariats because they seem to hit even when i’m ducking (unlike ST style gief). I just hate this matchup so much…
Nothin is worse than getting button mashed by people who dont know what the hell they are doing.
You must jump as soon as you see him jump. You are right, it will trade if you are not fast. But I swear this works. It made this matchup so much easier for me.
This IS Abel’s worst matchup, I agree. I don’t know what to say about the ultra. Maybe it’s just online lag. But if you hold up as the animation goes on, you should jump in time to punish his ultra with j.fp or j.hk ->cr.fp xx fp Sky Fall or something. This is my experience. For the lariat, if you block the first hit, do cr.mp immediately afterwards. You cannot sweep at close range, otherwise you’ll get hit (you can still do this on the ending lag, however). However, cr.mp is pretty consistent as far as I know if you do it immediately after the first hit. Except maybe in the corner. I’ll test this tomorrow.
are you jumping straight up with the jmp.fp against headstomp? or jumping forward and doing it? – I don’t think i’ve tried a straight jump so next time i play against him ill give it a shot.
I’m pretty sure Gief Ultra is instant. If you are on the ground and next to him, he is getting you, otherwise it would be as useless as Akumas.
As for Bison headstomp, Jump back with fp if you need to. Depending on distance you can dash under it also (closer then 3/4 screen). I assume 3/4 and farther you can dash back but never tried.
For flowchart ken, crouching forward as antiair.
Okay.
You cannot jump out of Gief’s ultra after the flash.
Jump straight up HP is an awful move to use as a whiff punisher against Gief’s ultra. Stick with j.HK starter instead.
Also, the second hit of cr HP will always whiff if you try to punish Gief’s ultra with j.HK into cr HP, even if you are right next to him as you jump straight up. So that combo just doesn’t even work in this situation.
cr MP and cr MK are garbage against lariat IMO. They lose to that shit all the time.
I’m no expert but Kajiki is just going to end up getting more frustrated if he tries to use what you’re posting. Gief is a terrible matchup and we probably all need to find (real) solutions.
Whew. Thats a relief. I was pretty sure that giefs ultra was instant, because i’ve tried many times to jump away from it. If you are on the ground and next to gief when he does it, you’re losing 50-70% health… doesn’t matter if you are holding up when that animation plays or not. =(
I don’t think im doing anything horribly wrong against gief, its just a tough MU.
I guess ill just continue to cringe when i see those gief counter-picks. lol
–
The dash option against headstomps is a great idea, and i wish i had thought of that a few nights ago when i was getting locked down by it. Unfortunately i haven’t played dictator since.
–
About the cr.hp to counter flowchart ken jump-a-thons, thats what i’ve been using mostly. (along with jumping back hp, against a predictable jumper).
This is true, I apologize. The frame data at Event Hubs is weird, and I assumed the 0 for startup was just a formatting thing. I assumed it was similar to Hugo’s Gigas Breaker. But like I said, TT beats Gief’s empty jump-ins if you time it right, and is ultra-proof.
Actually, I just tested this in training mode (I didn’t have Gief do ultra before I hit him, but I don’t think that matters). At point-blank range or on a forward jump-in, you can do j.fp into cr.fp if you wait a frame or two so that Gief’s hit animation changes his hitbox. You will whiff the second hit of cr.fp if you do it quickly, but you can do both hits and it’s really not hard. Also, neutral jump FP and HK have the same damage, stun, and hitstun, so there’s no reason to prefer one over the other. Forward jump HK does 10 more damage than jumping fp, but the timing on hitting Gief is more strict, so I would just always use j.fp because it works on neutral AND forwards jump easily.
I will test this in a minute, but I’ve had them work consistently for me IF you block the first hit of lariat. Otherwise, you’re far enough out to sweep.
But it IS exactly like Hugo’s Gigas in 3s.
It actually does matter that you have Gief do his ultra because that is the point of this discussion. Obviously it combos when Gief is just standing there chilling, but that’s not at all what we’re talking about here. You were just telling Kajiki how to punish his ultra, remember?
It is precisely because of the ultra animation that the 2nd hit of cr HP misses almost all the time on your combo. I tried “waiting a frame or two” and that does not change anything. Combo simply does not connect.
Also, you have to use a straight jump to punish because there is no time to jump forward or whatever because Gief will be using that shit at point blank range. Neutral j. FP is really hard to time because it tends to go over Gief’s head when punishing ultra. Neutral j. HK is MUCH easier to time in this situation.
Regarding punishing lariat, cr MP and cr MK almost never work even after blocking the first hit. A lot of the time they won’t even come out because you’ll still be in blockstun.
I’ve already been using straight jmp.hk and following up with cr.mp xx CoD when i land. It’s useful but not without it’s setbacks.
The problem is that the whole MU is a big guessing game. If i think he is going to try to grab me, i can jump straight up, catch him with jmp.hk and follow up with cr.mp xx CoD. But, with that being said, if i guess incorrectly, my jmp.hk can get stuffed by a lariat.
I’m not a fan of counter-picking, but i’m starting to go fuerte if i see my opponent moving for gief. lol
You can jump out of Hugo’s Gigas Breaker after the flash. I’ve done it.
Yeah, you’re right about this. And j.hk is much better at punishing the ultra. Couldn’t even get neutral jump fp to hit at all. Probably the most reliable punish here would be j.hk -> cr.mp xx CoD (and if you want to) xx FA xx dash -> cr.fp xx fp Sky Fall OR -> ultra.
You’re right here again. These are trash.
LK wheel kick, far HP, and far MP are your best options at range. Far HP and MP will trade a lot, but LK wheel kick is very consistent. However, if your spacing is off you will get reversal lariated. EX TT is your easiest (read: only) way out of wake-up lariats besides blocking and punishing with sweep. Sweep is less consistent in the corner.
For punch lariats, sweep is the best option after blocking unless you are in the corner.
For kick lariats (which is the one where he actually says lariat), don’t sweep (it works sometimes, but not on startup). Unless he is at point-blank range, you can cr.fp this on reaction. On wakeup, this one is a lot less dangerous. You can usually normal TT it, but it’s not totally consistent, especially if Gief times it right. In the corner, you can actually jump over a kick lariat after blocking and use mk crossup. If he follows with a lariat, you’ll beat him. However, I’m not sure if this gives Gief a guaranteed SPD on the way down, so I can’t suggest this right now. Cr.fp is really the best way to beat these, although at range far mp will stuff it very consistently as well. But you can follow cr.fp with fp CoD.
And isn’t Seth vs Gief like 8-2 Seth?
wheel kicks are what i use against a whiffed lariat. whiffs aren’t the issue though. wheelkicks can be very dangerous against gief because if they are blocked, they are very punishable.
lariats are just ridiculous in this game, they have a huge range, you cant duck under them like in ST, and they are strong as hell.
I forgot to mention, don’t try to super or ultra lariat. They both lose to lariat, and yes, I used the hit-invincible super (jab).
you can ultra lariat just fine, but you need to wait for a bit.
If you use wheel kicks at the right spacing vs. Gief, I don’t think they are. You’re at -8 on a blocked LK Wheel Kick, but if you just barely clip him, you are far enough away that reversal SPD or whatever will whiff. At far range, you can use MK wheel kick too. I don’t know if he could far jab you or whatever, but I know you’re out of reversal SPD range.
Okay, I’ll try again. But I do know that if you do it early in the punch lariat, it beats your ultra.