ShadowCharlie: I have to agree with your comment. It seems that the X character may have better power and options than the V character sometimes. So, yes, in that manner. Your interpretation is correct.
Apoc: Sorry dude, but no - not in my definition. When I say reliable, I mean that it works without too much thought - ie, low RH against virtually any other character. Again, all her anti-air moves have to be well distanced or in anticipation. Like I said, go actually play a good Zangief player (who knows what he’s doing) and you’ll see. In fact, I’m sure you have.
Crouching RH - Close splash kills it. If you get lucky and trade, you get a raw deal.
Walk under standing… let me stop right there. You’re not going to consistently walk under Zangief - especially if he’s splashing. No.
Walk standing jab - sometimes… sometimes you get pummeled. It totally depends on distance.
Standing FP - At the RIGHT DISTANCE again.
Flip kick - don’t even think about it. Trust me. Free screwdriver when blocked. If Gief is already in the air with a splash, flip kick is stuffed.
The others - “full extension, when used properly, on the way up” need to be VERY well placed… sometimes anticipated, unlike just sticking a low RH out there with other opponents.
Again, what you’re saying is right, just maybe our definition of reliable is different. Again, reliable in my book = standing FP or crouching RH against most other characters. You should know what I mean if you know your stuff.
Ok, I’m gonna tell u this and you can take it like a man or assume you actually know what works and what doesn’t in high level play. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Simple as that.
First of all, if you’re going to use a word like “reliable”, you might want to use dictionary definitions instead of your own version of the English language.
“Crouching RH - Close splash kills it. If you get lucky and trade, you get a raw deal.”
How does Zangief get close enough to do that other than after a knockdown? And if by chance you ever traded with that(why use it when at a point it’s not reliable? I don’t know), if you were smart enough to be in Aism, Gief is eating a rising kick super or another low RH whether he flips or not. I.E. Chun clearly wins the trade. Not to mention that you can do mean shit from there just by jumping immediately after trading but…why go into since you seem to think you understand the match. Moving along…
“Walk under standing… let me stop right there. You’re not going to consistently walk under Zangief - especially if he’s splashing. No.”
“I’m” not? Of course I am. Check who you’re talking to. You see, Chun gets to walk under for free at a certain range because if Gief splashes any sooner he eats a jab. A jab in that situation leads to mad set ups that Gief wants no part of. Once you make Gief understand the jab, then the fierce becomes awesome.
You have to use the right AA for the right situation. But I suppose you can stick with X if you want a Chun that a monkey could play. Just saying, think before you reply. You don’t understand how to utilize Chun’s AA’s.
“Walk standing jab - sometimes… sometimes you get pummeled. It totally depends on distance.”
Wtf? Are you just stating the obvious? EVERYthing in SF depends on distance(range). Nothing works the same at every range. That’s why ppl don’t stay in one place and do moves. At this point you’re sounding kind iffy.
“Standing FP - At the RIGHT DISTANCE again.”
Now you’re just being dumb. Zangief’s 360 only works at the right distance. OMFG! Guess what!?! Zangief’s splash is only effective and specific distances too! Chun has fast walking speed which allows her to adjust distance very quickly while Gief is airborne. Again, you don’t play A3 on even a mediocre level if you want an AA that’s perfect at every distance. There isn’t a 100% solid AA in the game. If moves acted the way that you wanted, we’d have a pretty moronic game.
“Flip kick - don’t even think about it. Trust me. Free screwdriver when blocked. If Gief is already in the air with a splash, flip kick is stuffed.”
Trust you? Why? Who have you beaten? Do you have some proof that you know what you’re talking about? It’s not a free 360 when blocked when used properly. Not to mention Chun can land into super and the rising kick for back up when you misuse it. And right now, it’s obvious that you are concerned with Gief being directly ontop of your head. That problem alone should show you that you need to be quiet and listen or at least ask how something works instead of assuming you know something because, you don’t jack about Chun vs. Gief. Gief should have to work MAD hard to get that close to Chun and after one splash, he can’t repeat it.
Let me help you out though. I forgot to mention that jump back fierce also hits the splash. haha. Those were off the top so I knew I missed some.
“The others - “full extension, when used properly, on the way up” need to be VERY well placed… sometimes anticipated, unlike just sticking a low RH out there with other opponents.”
No. She can’t just stick out low RH against other opponents. Ok, she can but, only if those opponents are scrubs or have zero experience against Chun. Hell, a shoto can cleanly nail that RH with a fierce and a forward. You must be facing morons that jump at you without a clue of how to counter the cr. RH.
See, I was helping out. But you don’t realize that you don’t play ppl that truly understand how to play. I’m not saying that to be rude. A3 isn’t an easy game to understand. So, yeah, cr. Rh is dope but, it can be hit clean if the opponent knows that will be your AA. I.E. You can’t just use cr.RH as AA. Not against players that know what they’re doing.
"Again, what you’re saying is right, just maybe our definition of reliable is different. Again, reliable in my book = standing FP or crouching RH against most other characters. You should know what I mean if you know your stuff. "
“I” should know what you mean if I know my stuff? Wtf? How am I supposed to know that you have your own definition of “reliable?”
Either way, by your definition, Chun has no “reliable” AA against 90% of the cast. Without using her other AAs in conjunction with cr. RH her cr.RH becomes average.
First of all, you’re sounding a little narrow minded and very insecure Apoc. LOL! I betcha you just CAN’T be wrong, huh?
First, the morons I’ve beaten with Chun include one of your heros Watson from S.Cal. (No doubt he’s a great player, and I’m not saying I’d beat him all of the time (played twice, won twice), but is he on your “morons” list?) In fact, I’ve played quite a few people at Golfland and didn’t have a problem with at least 80% of 'em. All “morons” huh?
Narrow minded? Think about this: you don’t know who I am, yet you seem to assume I don’t know my stuff. Hmmm. From what I post? LOL! Okay. I’ll get back to that.
Insecure? You SOUND very insecure. It seems each time someone post something countering your OPINION, you have an online fit. LOL! Calm down little one… calm down. You’re not always right.
Now let me get into it:
Well, I’ll tell you what. If I have time, I’ll post later, but if anyone has a chance to play against a mean Zangief player, please try what Apoc has posted.
if V is always better, then why does V-chun suck so much worse then a or x chun? why does V-balrog suck 93875938675835 times worse than x/a-rog? those are obvious examples off the top of my head. If you can find a way to play v-rog pretty well that could decimate the other modes, please, by all means, let me know
The Standing forward, while it only works at certain ranges(mid to far away) is probably her best anti-air normal at this distance.
At closer ranges the CLOSE stading forward beats the splash cleanly as does an early close standing roundhouse.
The short tensho kyaku is also great all-around anti-air as it has invincible frames at its start. Its only disavantage being a charge motion. When done deep it CANNOT be airblocked.
So to clear.
Far - Early far standing forward.
Close - early close standing forward or early close standing roundhouse.
Any distance(if charged) - Short tensho kyaku. I use the short version because even though it has the most start-up of the three versions, it also has the longest invincibility frames. The roundhouse version has the smallest amount of start-up but the smallest amount of invincibility at its start(making it impossble to land a meaty jump in attack as she’s getting up). The forward version is somewhere in-between.
I’m not one to agree with ghgh… (I usually don’t see eye to eye on his views), but I will have to agree with him on this one.
Not insecure, maybe quite the opposite. But anyways, I’ve noticed it’s hard for people to have a discussion with Apoc. If someone disagrees with his stance, He usually types out a 2 page essay on why they’re wrong (he’s thorough), but it’s filled with put-downs and “i’m better than you” stabs. Then you have 2 or 3 people posting afterwards “Yeah Apoc! You own!” and “your my hero dude!” and other ball-licking posts that have to real purpose other than to lick his balls.
Granted, he does know a LOT, and is a good player… But he’s kinda like the Peacock of SRK. Always puffing his chest out and showing his feathers. (no offense to you Apoc) That’s his perrogative I guess, It’s the ball-lickers that annoy me the most.
Perhaps I could do without “I’m better than you” stabs? Perhaps that’s how it’s viewed but, there really is not true way to make someone see what’s real. The only proof one has on SF is tourney proof. Citing that may come off wrong. Then again, I may be having some fun with the person if they were really nasty or particularly interesting.
As for licking balls? I’ve posted “U own” when i’ve read some flames that were well deserved and funny. I think we all have. But believe me, despite what you may think, because of my demeanor(I can only speculate), I get so much more hate than props. At least in person. I even post sometimes just to thank someone for being encouraging. Aside from Evo and a few others, I’m almost always being cheered against. Even in Vegas it was like that. Ppl would be behind me if there was someone from out of town that they wanted beaten. Otherwise, it seems more fun to watch me lose. Even the vids that make it online are usually of me losing. I’ve even told ppl not to tape me since I dont’ know how to play(at the time) and still the shit gets online. Think what you want. But you don’t experience the hate I get. Ppl have gone out of their way to lie about me in order to get others to hate me.
When ppl “nutlick” I don’t take it as such. Because the person I’m replying to probably made me wonder why I still posted on these forums. When I help out and someone throws it back at me when I’m seriously telling them that they don’t understand ONLY because they want to think they know some shit… Well, that type of weak ass shit makes me understand why guys like Valle or Nelson(off the top) won’t post. I mean, why help if some moron is always gonna be starting an argument? I wasn’t going to reply anymore until I saw this post.
Like many, marvelscrub, you take my cockiness in the negative, and that’s unfortunate. It’s part of the way I compete. And it’s an area in life that you can be cocky without it really meaning anything. It’s like being cocky about a rental car. I would think that stinking my chest out, over something the majority of the world doesn’t care about, would be more funny than offensive.
As long as ppl understand the differences between cocky and arrogant then it’s ok.
Still, I feel my time on SRK is coming to an end as far as posting goes. Also, the ppl influencing the scene the most have their own agendas. Not much room for an SFer that likes to keep it real. I don’t even enjoy playing that much since most of the newer gen games have left me uninterested. Full of bs but lacking true depth.
In all honesty, it’s those that post positively(ball-lickers in your words) that keep me posting at all. You’re about to only see this chest puff up at a couple more nationals until my lack of interest and practice leaves me unable to compete. As is, look at CvS2. It hasn’t progressed for shit in a whole year. If it had, I probably wouldn’t go to Evo since I wouldn’t put much time into it. I’m competing now because I’ve had some cvs2 comp up here and everyone is still doing the same old shit.
I’ll be posting less and less though. I’m too old to shove a picture of reality in denial’s face. Not into wasting that kind of time anymore.
I can’t wait to see ghgh get top 3 in an A3 national though. His Chun must be the best in the US! :lol:
I’m sorry that I come off that way but, we’re all entitled…
damn apoc, that’s sad to hear. it sounds like the scene is kinda dying all around.
and fuck the haters man. when some random bitch tries to challenge the tips of a PROVEN A3 master, it’s straight up ignorance. on my evo dvd, i don’t have vids of ghgh or marvelscrub playing a really good A/X-chun li, but i do have apoc playing A-rog.
i can honestly say that when i see people like you post in threads, i read them irregardless just to see what good advice is being given. and you’re one of few (gunter, buk, gandido, choiboy, and jchensor are basically the others) whose word i take to actually change my gameplan.
the entire reason i made this thread is so you would enlighten me with YOUR info, cuz i knew chunners was one of your main OG characters. thanks for the stuff you’ve contributed so far, and hopefully you’ll keep on posting in general:)
Apoc and buktooth are the only two posters that stand out in my head as providing gameplay value over the past 6 months or so cause they stood up for things so much and defended them well enough that i could learn why they thought the way they did (which is SUPPOSED to be the point). I’m sure we all don’t think we’re right all the time, but the only way to find out is to go through the discussion, not to redefine every topic into something meaningless to justify an ill-prepared answer.
If we were in a competitive arena, the majority here would be the minority there. Apoc would probably be middle tier information-wise cause he hasn’t played seriously the whole time, it says a lot if he’s the peacock of SRK =P.
Thanks for the props fellas:) I’ll help out when I can now but I try to let folks figure out their own ideas and style like we did back in the day. I think it’s more fun that way. I don’t mean to be a jerk. Back in the day I would just talk shit and wait for the big tourney or whatever. Nowadays, I don’t have the time or money to go to every big tourney or to put into practicing for one like I used to. I don’t really feel like arguing points that I can’t show up to prove because it’s meaningless and I understand that. That being the case, arguments can be endless. So now, it’s kind of become my off switch. Neither side can prove shit all of the time. I don’t have the patience for this kind of thing anymore. Although I try every now and then, heheh. I just felt the need to explain myself and say thanks for the dope sentiments. I save that kind of shit to look back on 10 years from now, lol. SRK memories.
Hope ta see some of yall at MWC!
Hey Popoblo, you gonna be at SVGL this weekend? I’m trying to make it.
Yeah, after playing awhile I think faqs don’t really help things too much, unless its a systems faq or all about streetfighter book from japan. All’s thats really needed for reading is the rules and restrictions of the fighting engine, and from there the player can experiment.
Any reasonably good player will pick up what he needs to know from playing the game against competition alot, if one thing doesnt work, try something else. Gradually from experience and practice you’ll become comfortable with how the character plays and will have trained yourself to do the combos you’ve practiced so much automatically on seeing an opening.
Telling somebody things about a characters moves and matchups is helpful a little, but really most people play differently, so you might be playing a Ken that likes to go for guard crushes alot and next a Ken that likes to tick throw often, so really the only thing you can do is rely on your own practice and intuition with your character/s…
I’m not saying faqs and forums are completely useless, but I think too much importance on theory fighter™ and too little of people going over to prove it :lol:
Guess its time for me to go back to the arcade and kick some amateur shotos around with cody lol
and i think another problem is that there are so many new kids (me being one, i’m only 17) coming up onto the scene nowadays, that they don’t know how to respect their elders (not trying to make you look old apoc:) ). they’ll be iconoclastic and start shit just for the sake of starting shit.
and i agree with you muskau in terms of personal player style. but the reason i ask so many questions and post so many new threads is that i have about ZERO comp in my area. i have to drive an hour to get excellent comp on the console, or advertise a tourney and pray that somebody outside of the locals come. and most of the locals at my arcade are scrubs big time, which obviously doesn’t help. so i hope to improve my playing level so the scrubs will either reciprocate or quit.
and apoc, i live in villa hills KY, about 5-10 minutes south of cincinnati. i’d love to come to SVGL, but it would obviously be one hell of a drive/flight to make it out there. i wish i lived by SVGL…
i was gonna go with some guys from columbus to MWC, but that didn’t pan out. so i’m gonna either try to go to Evo or just hope xbox live will provide good comp once i get my MAS this weekend. it’ll be so nice to finally bust out my CC’s on a stick. my gamertag is popoblo, just in case you ever have the opportunity to play on xbox live at somebody’s house or something.
right, so I haven’t seen the sen’en shuu (HCB+K) being discussed yet. I think it deserves mentioning that the HK version goes through fireballs. Cool thing is, sometimes when you expected a fireball but they jump in instead the kick snuffs their jump-in. (It’s hard to explain because I havent thought over the setup, so i can’t spell it out for you, but in some situations I feel like anticipating a jumpin with the sen’en shuu :eek: )
Of course being an overhead attack it works good supplemental to her set of moves to go for when the opponent wakes up,
in order of assumed (yes imho) effectiveness:
-close s.FP
-far c.RH (knockdown with her bigtoe)
-throw (her throw is fast and has decent range, making it a good throw in general)
-c.LK (into c.LK/c.SP)
-c.SP (into c.FP, could land a Fat Counter Hit; into another s.SP; xx sen’en shuu)
when you get pushed away from making your opponent block a move or two in this way, you can follow up with a c.FK or a s.SK (xx kikoken) or a (whiffed) s.RK even. S.RK could counter a jumpin at that range. and you can use her senretsu (grounded kicksuper)
or RH sen’en shuu at this range to snuff whiffed counterattempts or go through fireballs.
wow, i believe it wasn’t even mentioned that her senretsu works wonders in anticipation of poking and mid-range fireballs.
one of my own tactics is, when you are far away but don’t want jump in, instead just walkup and use the s.RK just out of its range. this in anticipation of grounded pokes by the opponent or jumpin attempts. when they see Chun marching from all the way at her speed (ooh, intimidating), they may well try to jumpin or poke. ex. : you somehow managed to position yourself away from sakura, then you just one time just walkup unexpectedly to aim with a s.RK in front of her to counter sakura’s s.RK, if it whiffs cause nothing happens your safe, if they go for a crossup they get nailed, if they go for a s.RK you get a Fat Counter Hit. okay next time they will use a fireball i know . don’t flame me. i know.
Well lets see…I agree with whats said about paying a greater amount of attention to certain posters…buk, apoc etc. I will generally always read posts from these players, because 95% of the time what they say is the shit. However I also read what others say and weigh it up. Then I throw in what Iv learnt playing for myself.I take all of this and mix it in during gameplay to find out for myself. Im not gonna trust someone implicitly. Its people who do this that annoy me
But generally I have to say I like Apoc - not that I have ever met him/spoken to him or ever will in all probability. I like his style and his response to flames. His advice is consistently of a high standard, and when its not it is useful. I like the fact that he doesnt conform and consciously pick top tier characters, but instead works away at non obvious characters…and can not only compete but win as well. AND he is always there to help people improve. I aint no fan boy - thats just the way it is. You cant deny it.
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. don’t flame me. i know.