A New Spiral Thread. .

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
21

Spiral pretty much has to have an AAA. There’s really no two ways about it. If she doesn’t have one, Sentinel kills her for free. She can beat Sentinel if she’s got one, but it needs to be one that can cover altitude.

The old classic Spiral/Cable/Sentinel team is still viable, but if Spiral needs her AAA to cover herself from rushdown (whether that’s Sentinel or Magneto or Storm or whatever) then it’s often best if that AAA doesn’t also happen to be the team’s next point character that’s expected to be coming in after her. This is most likely why Duc has gone to Spiral/Sentinel/Commando in these cases, and I’m finding myself gravitating towards that team when I use Spiral myself. Spiral/Cable/Sentinel is still better for turtle fights, but there’s very few of those left to be found these days.

22

thanx for the repost but im curious because i cant seem to figure out this out mayb you can shed sum light on this or me. i understand what u said and i wana get your take on this… why use captain commando on a team? i kno it might be off topic in a spiral thread but i jus dont see a point in using commando on n e team atleast. i underatand the assist is one of the best but why put such a weak point charcter on your team? ive seen friends of mines cables get killed and the opponent laughs at them because commando is the only character left and dey get humiliated… i jus dont get it, limit urself to fightin 3 characters wit 2 and an assist. wouldnt you be better off playing blackheart or ken or cammy if u want an AAA to cover say spiral and sentinel? a good answer would b much appreciated i really havent found a good answer to this question yet thanx in advance

23

Well, this is all well and dandy in theory, but there are certain AAAs that are worth having a lousy point character for, just because they’re so powerful in their effect on the arena that two point characters plus that assist is more powerful than three point characters. Commando is one of them. Cyclops is one of them. Psylocke is one of them.

24

i understand. now takin wat u said into consideration, where does the differnece lie between pickin commando, cyclops,psylocke (which i believe these two can be good and just good not great if used properly) or cammy, ken, and blackheart with a team containing spiral up front of course?

25

Cammy’s assist would be along similar lines to Commando, Cyclops, and Psylocke. She’s a very different assist that you have to think of in her own right, because there are some things she does far better than them and some that she just doesn’t. She doesn’t set up combos like Cyclops and Psylocke do, she doesn’t reach as far on the ground as Commando does, and if someone drops a sacrificial assist in front of her they can ignore her in the air as long as the other assist is between Cammy and them, and even if they don’t her vertical reach is still obviously less than Commando’s (although it’s still a lot more than a lot of people realize). However, if she’s got a clean shot her reach horizontally in the air is longer than Commando’s – a Sentinel that’s hovering in Commando-safe medium range will still get squarely hit by Cammy. The biggest thing for her, though, is that she is pretty much impossible for a fast moving Magneto player to cross up and she is invulnerable until she hits something solid. This, together with a little bit of defensive movement by the point character, makes a team with Cammy in back virtually unrushable at close range. Those wild, crazy Magneto players coming at you will either have to slow down until they see Cammy come out, or they will most assuredly die. There is no amount of speed that will get them around her if you just don’t get hit before she comes out. The drawback of her is that although she might well be the most unrushable AAAs in the game, she’s very, very bad for chasing down runaway, particularly but not limited to Cable. For Spiral, where the point character is probably doing most of their chasing anyway with sword volume, there’s a very good argument to using Spiral/Sentinel/Cammy for Spiral on point. Spiral teams are generally going to live or die by Spiral’s effectiveness, and Cammy works well for stopping most of the things that annoy her. I would probably prefer Spiral/Sentinel/Commando just for the anti-runaway, but Spiral/Sentinel/Cammy isn’t just awful.

Don’t use Spiral/Sentinel/BH. You will get rushed down horribly. Spiral/BH/AAA isn’t just awful but the chemistry between Spiral and BH is not good enough to make it worth the fact that you have almost no firepower on this team if you actually get a hit.

Ken is slower than Cammy with less reach, although he’s got more invulnerability. You can use him if you want, but it’s not very effective. The extra invulnerability is fool’s gold.

26

thank u… i totally agree wit spiral teams living or gettin creamed by the effectivness of spiral… ive gotten totally wiped out because a storm telegraphed my teleport and had a hailsotrm waiting for me and DHC into sentinel and practically killed me right there. on the other hand i have taken out two characters wit my spiral alone with swords and sentineling the first to death and AC into a circular swordsXX hyper metamorph the second… i can see the effectiveness against a mad magneto having to respect the AAA of cammy and for some reason, this is just personel experience, i face a lot more mad rush you down till ur dizzy magnetos then runaway storms (any storm i face i have to play like a magneto for some reason). i understand that commando can bring runaway storm back down before she can scream typhoooon.

i experiment with teams a lot and i have found myself gravitating to a few…

spiral/sentinel/cable… this team i love because i can use all three effectively and cables anti-air does jus enough to keep my spiral alive to do enough damage

spiral/storm/cable or cammyAAA… i use storm as sorta a ghetto sentinel trap wit spiral and have cammy and cable in the last slot for the AAA and if it gets to them being left alone on point i can atleast say i didnt go down with out a fight. people have told me that its retarded to have spirala nd storm on the same team because both are batteries but play a nice spirala nd i build metter while actually trying to kill the opponents point character, while building meter for storm and have storm come in and use a lil meter and build sum for cable or cammy should need be for all those AHVBx3 or KBAx2

juggernaut/spiral/cammy or cable… no trap with spiral but juggernaut just eats assists alive and leaves point characters with just specs of life which my spiral can handle and cable and cammy at the end of the same reasons as above

lastly the team u mentioned spiral/sentinel/cammy i like this team but its more built around sentinel. illpick spirals variety assist for sentinels ACs and fly unfly combos…
let me kno what you think because i have probably never considered capt.commando on any of the teams although i hear he works wonders for sentinels and can bail out spirals that teleport into more then they can handle but thats jus wat i hear

27

Wow. Your opponent reads when you’re going to do a teleport with enough anticipation time that they can actually hit you with a hailstorm? Offhand, I’d say you’re teleporting too much and too predictably. I mean, a hailstorm takes about two or three seconds to get off, while the teleport is zero frame startup… if you see a Storm going back for hail, don’t teleport in a way that you’ll come out while the hailstones are coming down.

By and large, teleport should be used infrequently and as a way to get yourself out of a bad position or to put yourself in a better position when you know your opponent is going to be locked into an attack. Good examples are to teleport out when your assist is about to be shot to death by Cable, if you’re caught in the corner by Magneto or Sentinel, and so on. If you’re just teleporting a lot, then you’re asking to get nailed sooner or later once they pick up where you usually want to go and when you want to go there. The teleport is good but it’s very easy to overuse. No particular assist is a good way to get out of it – if you’re teleporting in a situation that gets you into more trouble than you were in before you teleported, then you shouldn’t have teleported.

If I had to take a gut call on the best Spiral teams, Spiral/Sentinel makes up two of the three characters, always, and it’s just a choice between whether you want the classic battery-user deal with Cable as the third character or if you want to bring a dedicated AAA such as Commando or Cammy.

I personally have never picked any assist other than Spiral-A for her on purpose in my life. Spiral’s fierce punch is good for her on point and is only good for anyone else if your main reason for using it is to screw around for giggles. Spiral-Y is a homeless person’s Tron.

28

i agree wit the spiral sentinel point you made. ive seen players use teleports for defensive reasons only to get out the way of something they dont want to be in the way of or w/e but i use them for both defensive and offensive. i use all the position you can teleport to to keep my opponent a lil off balance. but i tend to do teleport above the opponents head and kinda do a poor crossup… they see me comin down and i maneuver above them so that it appears im falling in front of them and more is the case then any other a magneto does his c.hp trying to set me up for a huge overkill combo and i move to fall behind him and get a free AC ending in six hand grapple x2 or a ground chain with my swords into hp for some quick damage.

i only use spiral variety if i want to extend my sentinels air combos ill do a comboxx into flyimmediatly call spiral the swirds hit and keep the combo goin or reset either way doesnt matter cuz the damage is big no matter wat, and to lk,lk hp

29

Well… I’m going to say this real simple: don’t use Spiral’s teleport for offense. It’s fast in startup, yes, but it’s very slow in recovery. Most any character who accurately predicts where you’re going can super jump and hit you and you can’t do anything about it at all. And for gawd’s sake, if you’re getting HAIL STORMED by anticipation of your teleports, you’re doing it way, way too much. It’s good for a “get out of jail free” defensive escape and very little more – and if you find yourself using it for that more than three or four times a match, you’re doing something very, very wrong.

30

lol aight the hailstorm thing i dont remember exactly wat happened but i ended up gettin HSed not directly out the teleport but close to after… i respect ur opinion becuase you probably have a ton more experience then me but this is jus how i use spiral and more times then not ill go far into a match with her… i dont abuse i would like to think jus use it enough to be both defensive AND offensive… for me i love teleporting to the opposite once i see a magneto dash in and end up tri jumpin nothing and gettin a face full of swords and drones… also if i ever call out and assist mainly sentinel if i wana get in, ill call him throw 2 or 3 swords and teleport over and do the poor crosup of mine and have the swords and drones cover me while i lk lp hp while throwing the remaining swords… also ill teleport above with all my swords and sentinel releasing drones and ill do circular swords above the player drones will come from behind and ill land with lk into crouching lk tryin to start a chain this is mainly how i use my spiral prettymuch n e feedback?

31

Circle of swords over the top of someone is dangerous. If the side wall of the screen is closer to you than the floor is, you may find yourself coming down to the ground and the swords suddenly disappear and it’s just Spiral’s pretty curves between her and, say, a really unhappy Mag/Psylocke. This is, um, bad. :wink:

I’d have to guess that your opposition just hasn’t gotten used to the teleport patterns, because whenever I see a Spiral teleport on me too much, sure, maybe it’ll take me a game or two to figure it out, but unless I’m just in a state where I’m completely rusty against Spiral I’m doing to start super jumping up after her and hitting her as she’s coming out of that. Doing this on a technically sound Sentinel/Commando is asking to get yourself nailed for like 60% damage on a fast fly combo every time you try it. Don’t do this. If your opponents are letting you get away with it, then your opponents simply haven’t figured it out; you won’t go into any tourneys in major venues and survive doing that against solid competition.

But yeah, jumping jab/swords/Sentinel is a good way to defend against Magneto super jump in. By and large, the best time for circle of swords is when your opponent is above you.

32

lol aight i guess ur rite about the tournaments if i could find any or afford to go to one but i play mostly arcades and the machine at da university i play random people not n e set amount of people who see me fight enough so it works for now. im not sayin itll work 4 ever but ive taken down a few good MSPs and Scrubs but thats on a very limited bases. im taking well into consideration everything you say and your probably rite, ut im thinkin dat in theory there should be another spiral strat outside of her trap to allow her to be a offensive threat in sum regard i mean i dont think you would play her as juggernaut stay stationary more or less and let them come to you.

the circle of swords ive read and even watched videos that if done as stated in center screen can give a very angry magneto fits gettin in on you even if ur above him makin it sort of a trap or obstacle he has to get through if he wants to dash hp you also even make a storm trying to make her escape think twice and have to manuever around the swords to get away if ur get a descent timing on it.

i kno i would get shut out and sent home if i went 2 n e sort of tournament and im very far from being good enough to play with pros.i have hard times with 2 guys here who are probably the best guys i play against. one plays a disgusting mags/IM/psy the other goes wit guile/ cable/sentinel

33

Yeah. I’ve generally played in environments in Portland, Seattle, and northern California most of the time the game’s been out, in arcades that support regular tournaments once every month or three.

If Magneto is above you, there is basically nothing you can do wrong by throwing circle of swords; he has very little control over where he’s going to go up or come down. However, if you’re below him, he can potentially dash to one side of the screen and force the circle to go away, and then get under you just as quickly to attack. Granted, not many Magnetos will probably think of this, but the swords wind up disappearing at critical times often enough that I’ve had conversations with Duc where he says outright that it’s really not a good idea to do it if they’re below you because of this.

Eww… Guild/Cable/Sentinel. Kill it with fire.

34

lol yea i kno but he some how makes it work. he does everything with guile and cable lettin sentinel cover his guile for dash ins and jus spams hp, VB, and AHVB wit cable but not a lot of people can find ways around the drones and bullets to get a clean shot at his cable. honestly ive never seen him play sentinel on point so i guess he went the commando route and has him jus 4 his assist.

i guess ur rite bout the swords but is it possible to cancel circle or swords into swords then throw them forward to give you space b4 you land i dont think anyone can do it that fast atleast i dont think so. but you didnt say if there were other spiral strats outside her trap to make her offensive? i also take it that mags/IM/Psy isnt that bad a team rite? considering i cant recall every gettin past his magneto

35

Spiral can also trap with swords on her own without an assist decently, especially against those last characters who dont have assist or are trying to heal their assist.

Throw out a sword and super jump, if they follow you, throw out the rest of your swords and reload, if they dont, quick drop and throw out your swords and reload on the ground. If you happen to have sent, during the drop would be an ideal time to call him and start the trap.

I started playing Spiral/storm/Sent recently so that i wouldnt be dependant on anti airs with spiral and i also dont like picking cable, but push blocking is really important with that team, hopefully pushing them into drones. but if things arent going your way, you always have DHC into storm if that flying sent doesnt want to stop stomping you.

Also, if you are having trouble with sent, you are probably getting hit by his lasers. Dont throw out your hard earned swords at Sent while grounded, regular jump first since sent zones with C.HP, and you will jump over his laser and he will eat your swords. Better than you getting hit by the C.HP, losing the swords and his Super armor eating the 1 sword that got through. If he RP or HSF, teleport.

As for strats that dont include the trap, Her ground throw does as much as an air combo but hopefully when you are mashing you wont tag out. Try quick droping, HPing and walk forward and throw.

36

thanx a bunch im startin to like using spiral/storm/cable a lot but to me if i replace cable wit sentinel it wont matter ill be jus fine without the anti air… i usually use swords and teleport over there head land dropping kicks and then ill throw out swords and hp and try to launch into an air combo dat ends with 2 six hand grapples one that throw up then other down and quick drop with sentinel assist and try to dash in for another combo. also a real treat to the eyes is with swords launch lk, lk, cirlce swords, hypermetamorph all the way till about 25 or 26 hits and then DHC into hailstorm (not the easiest thing in the world cuz not alot of opponents are gonna make ti easy on you to pull it off)… wow i pity the magneto that gets caught in that. i jus try to last as long as possible with spiral and deal as much damage as possible without losing her but that just my take on her. shes and storm are my favorite characters to play with hands down and thats it any feed back?

37

spiral can win with a lousy AAA (read Storm-b lol). your spiral just better be damn good, cuz yes, it’s very hard to get swords out if you don’t have a good AAA to set that up.

I’d practice with spiral/cable/sentinel first, then once you get most of her game down, then you’re set to try other Spiral teams.

Maybe practice the following to see where you are:

teleport - should be able to teleport out of HS (as late as possible pretty much)
- be able to teleport out of HSF and use level 3
- be able to mixup teleport between high and low behind your opponent so you don’t get hit by sj. attacks on reappear
- teleport in near-1frame situations

trapping - know when to use circle of swords when your ground traps fail (even if it’s 1 sword swirling around)
- jumping version of sword trap as well as ground version of sword trap
- know when your opponent’s team’s AAA might make the ground trap dangerous (they can hit you with their assist during the s. HP portion if they have the right assist)
- know how to deal with Magneto that like to run up and s. fp or c. rh to stop your trap (bait and attack him).
- know how to stop your opponent when they call their own storm-a or sent-g to stop your trap (you may have to anticipate and teleport behind).
- know when to reload when they’re NOT in a trap(mixup between sj. reload, reload on ground, sj. fierce xx reload, j. fierce xx reload, and call assist sj. reload). This is pretty crucial.

combos - know how to combo sent-g into qcf+pp
- know corner combo into air throw (useful every once in a while)
- know level 3 combo with swords (practically a combo anyway… very few people throw you out of it)
- know when to use her ground throw (setup with a tick). Yes this can save your ass. and learn how to mash it without switching out or hitting hp/hk supers).
- learn her guard breaks. COS guard breaks are esp useful.

There’s more random stuff like how to stop Sentinel using her screen drop, snapback combos, etc. I think that stuff is in this thread.

Hope this helps. More spiral players are always welcome in the community. I totally know what you mean when you say she’s fun to play…

As a note, I don’t believe claiming teleport has zero-frames of startup is correct at all. I have yet to be able to or see a Spiral escape out of instances such as the following:

Spiral gets hit by Proton Cannon, spiral doesn’t roll, Ironman does qcf+LP as she gets up. She HAS to block it. if teleport were zero frames, she could get out.

38

i can do all teleporting you stated and well i jus never thought about teleporting and leveling 3 a sentinel i jus teleport behind and stop the HSF and combo away… i get critisized alot for teleporting too much i try to cross up the oppoentent in sort of a ghetto way as i stated earlier in this thread.

i do the trapping whenever the opportunity arises, i mix up trapping with a sort of rushdown/pressure/turtling game sounds weird but i try to trap and pressure and rushdown all while stayin alive as long as possible and dealing as much damage, when i use her and do the jump call swords throw 3 on the way down and sentinel then jump up again and throw 3 goin up. ill also do the ground version with the hp but not a whole lot. if im gettin 2 or 3 good sets of the trap and they call an assist i will telport behind and run up and try to include the assists in a dashing lp mp hp while throwing swords then call sentinel jump and load swords and continue from there. and if the trap breaks ill call an assit Sj up and reload there and quick drop down wit HP

i try to combo with sentinel a lil but i cant seem to super from the drones and the corner combos i end in hp and call the anit air assits to end the combo. the one i like a lot is the air combo lk, mk c.hk, magic holding up the whole time and end in two six hand grapples one up and the last down. quick drop down after them wit HP and go from there. and if there one thing make sure to do i mash when i grab them and i dont seem to tag a lot mayb once i can think of but not a problem for me for some reason.

but yea im definitly one of the spiral fans now and her pretty much escapes jus about n e thing but i guess what you said is jus another glitch in the game along with the lots of others

and as i said and you confirmed probably the most fun and effective character in the game i dare say n e feed back on what o said would be greatly appreciated.

39

Sounds like you’re on the right track.

Comboing from s. fierce, drones, qf+pp just requires a little timing to get used to. Once you see it a few times you’ll know when your s. fierce will combo into the drones at the last moment (the stun from s. fierce should have the opponent almost recovering when the drones hit, then your qcf+pp will hit).

to do the teleport from HSF, just teleport as soon as the first row comes (timing has to be right or it can be escaped or you will get hit when you try to land the level 3), reappear up behind, activate, then fall and land it. Good way to burn meter, too, if your spiral is doing really well and have no other use for the meter.

Good luck! I think the rest will just come with more playing and more matchups against a variety of opponents.

Oh, one thing… . Storm is probably your toughest fight, along with Sentinel. Sentinel you know how to stop his flight by now, but for Storm, your main method of attack should be stalling and don’t get hit. You’ll have to do sj. into the middle of the stage and do COS which will force Storm to block it. She will get frustrated that you never get hit by HS and she’ll keep blocking COS. That’ll help the most since otherwise it’s quite dangerous to try other things. I think her sj. fierce and s. fierce knock out swords, too (not to mentioned Lightning attack can angle at you while you’re trying to reload).

40

its good to hear im gettin her right. im really enjoying the team with spiral/storm/cable im startin to make leaps and bounds with storm trying to make two really mean front characters im jus trying to get one of the better AAA that i can play good on point (akume, ken,cammy, capt. comm) when need be. im leaning towards akuma’s AAA cuz i can play him pretty good on point. im trying to learn cammy but thats not even close. cable i have at the end for now for the AAA and the fact that its cable and he can bring you back in a snap. i agree that storm is tough but ive fought runaway storms and ive found that spiral can be effective somewhat to bringin her bak down to earth. jus teleporting up to her and combo away and drop down on her and not gettin tossed into to LS

tell which AAA u think i should have at the back in a team with
spiral A/storm C/XXXX
for now its cable but id be gratefull for any adivce you can share