A Flash To Cut Evil: Yoshimitsu Matchup/Strategy thread

What are the MUs that give you the most trouble so far? Got any tips against specific characters? This is the thread for all that stuff.

I will keep updating this thread with info you guys provide and new tech I discover.

Hugo

Spoiler

Rufus

Spoiler

Ryu

Spoiler

Vega

Spoiler

Zangief

Spoiler

One of his hardest MUs I feel like is Ryu. Windmill as AA is super sketchy, you pretty much fall back to well spaced cr.hp and s.lp for AA.

Against fireballs, j.hp is hilarious for catching him after you jump one. If you have balls of steel and he’s getting predictable, trade a fireball with windmill, you should recover fast enough for a boost combo or another jab punish.

In footsies, you need to train them to not throw fireballs. You’re not going to punish anything that’s not an SRK or heavy tatsu on block, so that means sitting just outside of his range and grabbing whiffed normals. Yoshi does have longer range pokes, but nothing that’s going to be going over shoto low forward. Again, whiffed normals are your friends.

As far as opening him up, you’re pretty much SOL until he messes up. Be careful doing windmill to tag mix ups. His alpha counter is pretty good at lighting up both characters :/.

Long story short: This is a very uphill battle. You need to be charging windmill and dancing around. Force him to come to you and be a nuisance with teleports and shenanigans so he doesn’t toss anymore fireballs. Any chance you get for good damage and a tag, take it and run. This is not a fun one for Yoshi.

Other random tidbits: air-to-air is gonna come down to j.mp most of the time. Wake up options are very non existent without meter (pretty much goes to all MUs). Overhead gets blown up super hard, so fuck that.

Also, all I need to write for Hugo is don’t jump, if he gets in your face teleport away asap. Generally Yoshi deals with grapplers by staying on the ground and teleport baiting grabs or just building meter and waiting for a scoop. DO NOT JUMP! I cannot say that enough. Also, against anybody with a command grab, do not do windmall tag for blockstun mix ups. If they don’t alpha counter and you don’t keep them stunned until Yoshi is off the screen (so you’ll eat an alpha counter >.>) they can safely mash circles and just get the grab without the cinematic animation. This is general grappler advice, later I’ll do more character write ups.

vs Zangief I like to check him with L/H Poison Breath and st.hp. Every time I try to use cr.mp I get blown up by Gief’s cross rush so I can’t recommend it in this MU. The cool thing about H Poison Breath is that it stays active for like 24 frames so it forces him to stay on his toes and at the same time it kinda controls the air. Combined with the threat of windmill it can discourage Zangief to jump in on Yoshimitsu. If he does jump in, I usually teleport back, bj.hp or try to AA with cr.hp.

Once you’ve conditioned Gief with poison breaths, he’ll probably try a few Green Hands to get in. That’s when you blow him up with Windmill or st.mk.

I need to test this some more, but I’ve been able to beat his AA lariat with Yoshimitsu’s j.mk (cross up). Not entirely sure how reliable that is though. It’s usually a very bad idea to jump in on Gief but if j.mk can consistently stuff his lariat then that could be a huge help.

I heard it mentioned on WNF that giefs lariat doesn’t hit on the backside anymore, so…yeah I dunno if he times it early and you hit with a cross up you should beat it right? But if they time it late and it auto corrects the lariat then you’d trade? I dunno, just heard it mentioned and thought it was interesting, don’t know if it’s even factual.

So for real this time:

Hugo: So I’m going to address this first. When Hugo goes full blown retard and starts raining body splashes on you, you do have options. As far as AA goes, because of the weird hitbox the only consistent one I get is a well spaced cr.hp or EX windmill in emergencies. Yoshi is really lucky in that he doesn’t have to jump back or backdash to get away. You can just teleport and say I didn’t like that situation very much. Another fun fact is that body splash actually has ground recovery, so if you mange to dash under or backdash (go for the dash under) toss out windmill for a free combo.

Again, don’t jump. If you have to jump in, pray to god he doesn’t AA and mash j.fp. It hits multiple times and blows up his armored move. Speaking of the armored lariat, this is kinda a hit and miss type thing. If you do windmill charging. Sometimes he eats the hit and demolishes you, sometimes he eats the suction hit and gets caught by the sword. I can’t figure out the spacing or timing on this, so until someone does I’d rather not risk eating the 24572805608652 damage Hugo combo.

In controlling space in front of him, s.hk and s.mk actually aren’t too bad. You can cancel the mk into anything you please so that’s nice. You can make him respect your PB, just toss it out just outside of his range. If starts clapping in front of you, it’s a free windmill punish. His scariest thing is his little low string. He’ll go to it a lot if he has trouble getting in (he should) and you’re gonna just have to watch it. Punishing it is difficult considering Yoshi has slow start up and shitty lights.

If you mess up and get caught in clap pressure (+13 on block -_-) don’t forget about your alpha counter. You can TC that thing for a free combo and just go to town. Hugo’s hitbox is massive, so have fun with all those combos. If you have somebody who can do jump loops or extended combos on him, put him in a corner and you win. He really just cannot get out if you sit right at the spot where you can AA him every time. Approaching you, he has to walk forward or get in range for a meaty body splash. Walking forward against Yoshi is a lot scarier than it sounds so you want to jump at him, and if you have good spacing you can be hard to touch from somebody with as little options as Hugo.

One last thing: your overhead will kinda fuse with where Hugo is onscreen and is pretty hard for him to spot. He’s also so big that when you get the chance for a cross up j.mk, you’re probably not even going to know what side you’ll be on. Also, this a fight where flea stance can be fun for high jumps, but you’ll usually just get smacked out of it.

Well that’s good to know. :slight_smile:

That means Yoshi’s air target combo could be used to mess up with Gief. (at a certain distance j.lk alone doesn’t cross up but if you hold back it will)

Oh my god we can’t beat Guile. We just can’t.

Our worst MUs are Ryu/Ken/Kaz/Rufus/Raven.

What the fucking fuck.

Matchups I need help with: ALL.

But mostly Kaz and Jin.

So i’m paired online with a pal and chatting, and my friend gets hit with Kaz EWGF, and tags out and we’re talking while I play, and he’s like “yeah, You have to hit that shit low” so I see Kaz wave dashing at me, I fucking EX stone fists and eat shit and he’s like “yeah I guess it’s got some invincibility on it too”. Ugggh I have to do some research…

you should buffer into windmill in the ranges you think he’ll wavedash, when he does, windmill, and he’ll put himself into a high damage combo provided you have bar, hope that helps,

AFAIK a Kazuya wave dashing is completely unaffected by Windmill.

You have to beat his wavedash with cr.lk xx SlapUSilly or Sweep or cr.lk cross rush. Everything else dies to it I’m afraid. I didn’t know that Stone Fists didn’t work though, that kinda sucks.

edit: unless cr.mp hits him during his wavedash? It’s not a low attack but it still hits pretty low so it might actually work lol. I’ll have to test it…

sorry I haven’t tested it but in experience the kaz’s i have played press buttons on the way in

Oh I see… So he’s completely invulnerable unless they press buttons during the wavedash. That’s good to know.

Yeah all I know is that a Kazuya player just continued wavedashing during my whole Windmill and caught me in a full combo during recovery. :confused: It was… sad to watch.

I guess the only way to really beat it is to see the wavedash and teleport behind him?

Would that leave you in a similar as you were just in, just a quick idea, i’m not playing right now, so I can’t test - but what about flea sliding headbutt against the wave dash, I haven’t ran into many waver dash happy Kazuyas so I’m not sure really

I suppose, but if he’s wave dashing at you and you teleport as he’s getting close, he’s probably going to press the button and whiff one of those follow ups, and because you’re so close it’s an easy punish right?

edit: and if he’s not pressing buttons shouldn’t your teleport fuck up his inputs or will he be able to keep wavedashing til he pukes?

I dunno, watched a recent upload from vulcan hades against a kaz and he beat it with a windmill, not sure what the kaz was gonna push but the windmill beat him before his move started up. Pretty sure EWGF is invincible to that, so I dunno what was going on. Maybe he didn’t push anything yet and just got sucked in at the end of the mist step.

I think he stopped short. I’ll have to look at the inputs to know for sure…

any thoughts on incorporating the flea stance as a counter?

Ok, I just tested it:

Windmill whiffs completely if Kazuya keeps wavedashing. But the second he goes for something else he can get sucked in by Windmill.

Good news is cr.mp AND cr.mk actually work! :slight_smile: So next time you see a Kazuya player wave dashing, just do cr.mk xx Windmill for a huge punish.

It works but you would have to already be in Flea Stance. You don’t have enough time to go into Flea then Headbutt on reaction.

edit: You can also go into Flea Stance then tap down. It will hit low and get you a counter hit vs wavedash. And from there you can combo into Headbutt. Nice.

good shit on the cr.mp and cr.mk find