Iceman’s post about a game coming to “turtle, poke, turtle, poke, poke”
You are an idiot. When people say stuff like this, they obviously don’t know how to play fighting games as all fighting games come to poking and spacing. If you don’t understand that or can’t appreciate it, go play FPSs or something. I hate stupid ass generalizations. Its like saying… man Chess is boring, because all it is moving pieces on a board. Apparently you don’t actually see the game.
I think it comes from the mindset of playing different classes of fighters. I’m a Capcom fan, so CFJ looks interesting to me. I like 3S and ST too, they’re very much games based on spacing and control.
Whereas I know I have friends who are SNK heads and they think Capcom games are turtlish/boring because they don’t have enough rushdown/offense going. Iceman primarily plays #r I believe so it’s easy to see how a #r player would find CFJ’s gameplay slow and turtle-y.
True, all fighting games are about poking and spacing, but not all of them have similar flow. You can argue MvC2 is about poking and spacing but there’s no way you’ll convince anyone who’s used to seeing Mags or Sent in action and seeing CFJ for the first time that it doesn’t look a little slow and underwhelming in comparison.
I agree 100%. The music made me LMAO the entire length of the vid.
I wish I hadn’t deleted those CFJ videos so I could reference them. Oh well. :pleased:
There’s a little bit of hypocracy in your post. I made a stupid ass generalization by saying the game was “turtle, poke, turtle, poke-poke.” You also made a gernalization which I halfway agree with. Fighting games come down to “spacing.” Spacing and turtling are two different things. If I’m Magneto and I get close, the immediatly back dash just past Commando AAA’s range because I think you’ll call him. Or if I’m CvS2 Sakura and I get Sagat to block RC hurricane kick, then I back dash afterward because I think he’s going to try to uppercut me (probably a bad example since he’s more likely to lvl2/3 super my ass), that’s spacing and not turtling.
And all fighting games do not come down to poking either. Not at all. Of my 5 favorite fighting games, only Tekken Tag, and maybe ST are overly pokey. GGXX#R and kof2k2 have some poking. There will always be some poking in a fighting game. But both games offer enough offensive options that there are characters who do not rely on poking at all (Millia, Zappa in GG; Vanessa, Angel in KoF for example). VF4 isn’t a poke heavy game because most pokes don’t give frame advantage. Therefore you have to use tricks, spacing, and mix-ups to attack. Just watch the Evolution DVD trailer. I watch it and the game that looks like the most fun is easily VF.
ST has some poking (VEGA!!), but there is a lot of using your specials to advance on an opponent. Compare the Bison in the CFJ videos to an ST Bison. I didn’t see very much scissor kicking, even against Felicia. I tend to like games where people can use their moves. Either the Bison player was dumb (I give him the benefit of the doubt because a-cho’s videos in other games are top notch) or Bison’s specials are worth doing.
Tekken Tag has a good amount of poking. And honestly this game would support your argument as well as it does mine.
I have no problem with poking. The problem that I do have is judging from the a-cho videos (topic of this thread) the game looks like it favors turtling (Felicia turtles up for God’s sake) unless you are a DS or Alpha representative. I hope it’s just the players aren’t used to the game and they aren’t very good yet. Given a-cho’s reputation in #R, A3, VF, and KoF, I assume the players were skilled.
Can anyone honestly say the Leo vs. Felicia didn’t make them sick?
Bellreisa: Your SNK head friends sound like Bird (Johnny player), who seems to have some grudge against Capcom. But it is Bird. He hates everything.
your post is really still pretty pointless. Most of the counter arguments have been to wait until you get a chance to play it. Thing is, you’re still busy speculating about how effective specials are and being negative in general about the game.
maybe marvel is turtling too, cuz alot of the matches I see have people turtle against cable. All those matches must define the main strategy of the whole game after all…
Iceman…
Have you watched Japanese play against Zappa or Eddie? Have you seen matches against Baiken? Just because there is cool looking combos and special moves with 123123434123412 colors doesn’t mean a game doesn’t have alot of spacing and poking involved in high levels of play. Most high level GG matches I’ve seen recently involve a shitload of staying across the screen and being safe till they find a safe opening because they don’t want to die to one combo or one mixup. Similarly there is alot of poking involved in MvC2 (Sent vs Sent) and spacing as well. I’m pretty sure VF4 also has spacing as a major component of the game. I can’t say for sure because I don’t play it. So if the game looks like alot of “turtling and poking” for you, well then you are better off not watching competitive match videos. Because almost every competitive match video I’ve seen where it is two people of similar skill level involves “turtling and poking”.
Now this is not to say I’m defending or making a point against CFJ. But the content of your post was kind of annoying. I mean this is a competitive fighting games sight, if people don’t understand those basic concepts are involved in a fighting game, well I think spending time on this site is a waste of time for them.
As far as CFJ goes, I’ll play the game before I make too many judgments about the game. But I will say that the game seems very different than I expected.
This game might be cool after all =O
I have a question for iceman? So the reason you don’t like CFJ is becuase you can’t spam specials and have to use normals? I had someone else tell me the same thing about A3. They didn’t like it because it’s all poking, he even pointed out that when i beat him one match i didn’t use any special moves at all and he thought that was stupid. I just find it really weird that people who play fighting games competitively say things like that, it makes no sense to me at all.
I think this game looks fun. The whole air fireball bothered me with Jedah, but Viscant cleared it up in his thread. Oh well, I guess. Mixup is right about how we shouldn’t judge this game until we played it, but I thought those vids were fun to watch, regardless of whether you pass judgment or not on them.
Just enjoy them as much as you can.
And besides, these are just beginning videos. Which means that there will be lots of time for it to improve/disprove itself as people discover more and more about it.
Is Yun’s juggling as good as in sf3 or did it get nerfed?.. cuz no ones using him -_-
Caliagent: I’m glad you asked that question. I wish I had worded that differently and been more specific. No, I don’t want people to be able to spam special moves w/o being able to be punished. Yes, ST O.Sagat can get annoying at times. It is nice to see games where characters can use specials and normal moves and that Bison vs. Felicia match, it did not happen. I wish I had mentioned that maybe the Bison player hasn’t completely learned Bison yet and Bison will turn out more fun than the video gives him justice for.
To anyone who says “Wait until you play it before judging”: Save it for another topic. This topic is about the a-cho videos. And watching those videos makes the game look boring if you don’t play Jedah/Anakaris/Alpha character. If those are the only fun characters, I’ll just play VS and A3 where they are joined by other fun characters of the same type. Thought I think having the dino and squid is stupid, at least they were fun to watch 
If you are going to disagree with me, that’s fine. But please refute my points based on the videos themselves.
cheese_master: Please read what I posted and don’t put words into my mouth (or in this case keyboard). I never said spacing or poking were bad. I agreed that spacing was a fundamental of every fighting game. I also said that poking doesn’t upset me at all. I never said a game had to have flashy lights and overly big combos (Uhm, VF4!). All that I’ve said is after watching the videos the game looks like a turtle-fest unless you have Jedah, Anakaris, or Karin involved. The exception to this was the giant dinosaurs, as much as I might hate them :tup:
Spare me the lecture on high level play. I have made it pretty clear that I don’t enjoy blatant turtling, by which I mean sit on the other side of the screen and do nothing (Felicia vs. Ingrid). There is a big difference between spacing and zoning, and sitting on the other side of the screen and do nothing (except sometimes build meter). I never insult the players for resorting to this tactic. I blame the game if (<-- Important word. Means maybe the evidence in the current videos could be overturned) this is all they are able to do.
To answer your questions, yes I’ve watched (and still have saved) matches of #R against Eddie and Zappa. A lot of characters actually attack Eddie (omg!). I have a match from a-cho of Eddie vs. Zappa where yes, they turtle like hell because Zappa gets the Dog from the start and Eddie wants no part of that Dog. I don’t fault either player for spending 20 seconds doing nothing but trying to fake the other person into getting his familiar hit because it was the smart thing to do. If that was the only video I’d ever seen of #R, I’d say it sucks too. But I’ve seen the dozens of videos out there of characters actualy staying busy either by rushing or zoning. I watched a match today of two Baiken players. While they did little spectacular, they did mount very conservative offense. The spacing and move selection was fun to watch. But they didn’t stand at opposite sides of the screen doing building meter or doing nothing at all. As I said, spacing is a seperate animal from turtling.
And I’m still waiting on someone to justify CFJ using these videos as an example.
yo hauzer’s tail is pretty strong normal can of like sagat’s low f.p hehehehehehehe
all I have to say is that so far the game looks fun. The music is ok with me. Screw the graphics as long as it plays good. I havent tried it yet (hopefully it’ll be at my local arcade soon.) but I plan to.
my two cents
case closed… if people play MVC2 religously… with MVC2 being broken as hell… then people will play CFJ the same way… so STFU fools.
RXS
You can’t put anything in concrete(even strong opinions) during such an early stage of the game. The a-cho videos are from EARLY play, if you want to base your opinion of the game based on that, well shit, wake up…please…
Anything else is stupid.
Just think about the progression of games in the past if you get the urge to type alot more bs iceman.
Godzilla matches were tight.
lmao @ godzilla matches…
I want to play the game, because there’s obviously room for improvement. I have yet to see a CFJ combo video, bug video, or even frame data. Even if the game is broken, it still takes that special someone to break it, and that hasn’t happened yet.
Iceman: Are throws instant in this game like ST(plus range)?