HDR had the benefit of David Sirlin being in charge of development, and even then old school heads disagreed with his decisions, even if they agreed that it was more balanced than Super Turbo. Will it affect the overall feel of the game? Just because a game is rebalanced doesn’t guarantee it will make the game any better.
Look at Simon’s Quest Redacted, a fanhack of the Castlevania 2 game. They made improvement over the major flaws of the game, like making the townspeople’s quotes actually understandable and the text/day-to-night transitions faster, but it’s still Simon’s Quest and a lot of the things people hated about that game still run rampant. Just like no matter how they rebalance SF4, in the end it’s still SF4 and all the shit I hated about the game will keep me from wanting to get into them.
You said that a little change in this game would at least give it some amount of life back. I don’t care about 3S being super popular and headlining Evo again. I just want this game to not die. I’m not saying I don’t want new players getting into this game too because I obviously do. I just already knew that it’d be hit-and-miss with everyone, but those that like it and want to learn more about the game would be welcomed with open arms.
But yeah, I’m pretty much done here. A lack of rebalance is one of the last things people are complaining about this port, and it’s moreso Capcom fucked up and the veterans didn’t care for it so they never supported it. Simple as that.
Here’s what I don’t get about this argument: People treat arcade perfect 3S like a holy grail. No rebalance, it wouldn’t be 3S anymore. OE has Urien’s Aegis color wrong and Twelve’s voice is bad and has some color glitches, so that’s a no go. We’ll reject that altogether.
…and then they go play online on an emulator which is nowhere near accurate the CPS3 hardware. Before that, people played tournaments on the PS2 port which is even further off speed wise.
It’s all pretty confusing. “It’s not arcade perfect” is a reason for OE to show up in one major tournament and then disappear off the face of the earth, and is a reason to reject a rebalance outright, but apparently wasn’t an absolute deal breaker for the PS2 port and isn’t a deal breaker for GGPO.
It’s hard to get an understanding of the reaction. If the PS2 port was at one point “not ideal but it’ll have to do” I would think OE would be welcomed warmly for the offline play. People who want to have tournaments have something closer to arcade to use. I dunno. Based on how things went down I wonder if even an exact arcade perfect port would’ve done anything for the game. Would people be playing it at more tournaments if it was? Doesn’t seem that way.
You speak of dealbreakers, yet also speak of an age where your two options are: play 3S on the hardware it is available for, or forget about 3S and play Tekken.
As far as I know, PS2 3S wasn’t rebalanced nor was it particularly close to arcade perfect in many ways. Evo decided that it is a console tournament. Evo is the biggest tournament. See two options.
PC 3S is arcade perfect aside from operating system input lag. No tournament uses emulators for any games. See two options.
3SO comes out with issues that don’t affect balance (though it is truly bullshit that they are there). It is the most arcade perfect port this far (as far as gameplay goes). See two options.
As far as if it was arcade perfect, it wouldn’t have done much for the game because, well quite frankly, it is still 3S and in the eyes of the idiot outside community “THIS GAME IS SO OLD! PLAY SFIV!” “YUN-LI TOO STRONG!” “FIREBALLS ARE USELESS!” “THIS GAME HAS NO FOOTSIES!” “IT IS TOO FAST/SLOW FOR ME!” “WHY NO GUILE/BLANKA/SAGAT/DHALSIM/*?” There is no way to make this game more widely accepted. The very engine itself is part of why it’s criticized. Fixing balance only changes some of the issues people make up to have against it. Sure, being arcade perfect would keep the dedicated players involved, but it would do little or nothing to draw in new players.
Thing is that 3SOE still isn’t arcade perfect because it drops inputs. I think it was Ryan that linked a video showing the 3S gods in Japan dropping shit they never drop in 3SOE.
Huh, I think I missed that. Does anyone still have the link to that video? I’d be interested in seeing it.
Buying and obtaining a real 3S machine seems expensive and kind of a pain with the battery issue, so it’d be really swell if OE actually worked properly. I’m open to evidence otherwise though.
EDIT: Also I’d be curious to know what kind of monitor they were playing on. CRT or other?
The dropped inputs thing would be easier to verify if you could display your inputs in training mode. I don’t understand why OE doesn’t have that.
He’s probably referring to when Kokujin was dropping links when playing KSK on 3SOE. It was most likely monitor lag. Kuroda wasn’t dropping inputs when he played Urien in that barfight event. Boss was most likely feeling input delay because of the PS2 to 360 converter(he was on a CRT). KO was able to do the Makoto 100% Stun almost as consistently as Tominaga during that video where Nuki talked about quitting SF4. I can personally say that I didn’t drop combos on OE because of any supposed inherent lag.
That’s probably exactly what he meant. That is a huge amount of assumption needed to blame dropped combos on something as specific as “the game drops inputs” when there could be a half dozen different reasons. (Sticks, monitors, different timings, etc)
sorry it wasnt me posting a video of dropped inputs.
3soe doesnt drop inputs offline at all. Online it will drop like hell. if youre missing shit offline its because youre too used to emulator or ps2 or whatever.
Speed wise, I still think its a little faster than cps3.
Street Fighter 4’s huge success overshadowed the release of 3SOE on consoles. A SF4 player is unlikely to go back playing a 10+ year old game with outdated graphics (it’s the best 2D, though). These games are so much different. A new player at fighting games may find 3s appealing, though.
xbox/ps3 default controllers are quite impractical mediums to play this game, btw. It’s not the emu or ps2. When you pull off combos on one of them, you can do the same on the other.
not necessarily the same timing for each one. specifically these combos are really different on ps2/oe/arcade: Kens kara shoryu, tackle tackle headbutt, kara fukiage, keeper jin. Links are really tight on ps2.
Thats your choice and point of view concurrently.
I prefer the ps3 on a CRT TV over the ps2 port. Of course, LCD quality and the OS affect the emulation’s input delay, which I conclude it was a quite bad experience on your part.
oe is good for practicing offline on a crt. but its not perfect. tth with urien felt immediately different switching between cab and oe. infact i dont think i could even do it on cab when i tried briefly. but on oe it’s ez pz.
so oe speed isnt quite right or something but for a lot of things it feels fine. switching between oe and cab is 10x easier than emulation and cab.
and i think ryan is saying that if you spend all your time playing on emu and then play on cab, you will need to adjust. you will miss combos and shit because you’ll be hitting inputs too soon. vice versa, on emu you’ll probably miss links and maybe mess up late jumpins. and that thats the only reason people get dropped inputs when playing offline.
Going from even just two weeks of GGPO back to arcade was one of the worst experiences. This is one of the reasons why I thought GGPO and online play in general was the devil incarnate for years, and why I strongly advocate people try the real arcade version at least once in their life.