3s: Team Makoto Dojo

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
141

just messed around with Makoto’s SA 2 -> axe kick, uppercut, j.fierce combo.

Little tricks:

The axe kick doesn’t have to be done THAT early, but still early. You have a nice little window of between 1/6th to 1/4th of a second to do it.

The uppercut motion should be done as soon as possible, and the punch (Strong punch) done after a delay. Don’t try to do the uppercut motion too late.

Your opponent will most likely bounce behind you (in the original direction of the super.)

It actually does 2 more points of damage than her normal axe kick -> hayate x2 followup, and more stun than the dash, uppercut -> rh axe kick.

Just so you guys know.

ALSO: Regarding SA 3

It seems that normal moves have a super-cancel delay of 2-3 frames, while special moves have a super-cancel delay of only 1 frame.

Where this comes into play is Makoto’s Strong punch used in conjunction with SA 3. It would be nice, in theory, to be able to make your opponent guess upon wakeup whether or not your Strong punch will lead to a tick throw or not, but it’s certainly very parriable. But if you know your opponent will parry it, then couldn’t you simply cancel into SA 3?

Well, yes and no.

If you’re too far away to be thrown and your opponent has no supers or uber-fast attacks such as EX attacks, Chun Li’s low Jab, etc, your Tanden Renki can be pulled out after your opponent’s parry.

On the other hand, if they do happen to have fast-retaliatory moves, you’re SOL. Alternatively, if you had used a Strong Chop (QCB+P) and cancelled into SA 3, no matter what moves your opponent has, you’re safe.

142

doesn’t Makoto’s sa2->mk.axe-, fp.hayate,c.fk do 3 more points of damage?

also the RK version of abare can be connected almost anywhere near the middle of the screen. If you get Makoyo to cross-up away from a corner she can nail Ryu off of a s.fp with sa2 every time. It may even do more damage.

What is the most damaging Makoto sa2 combo in damage points?

143

Tom… like I said b4, you’re crazy! :sweat: :lol:

144

Yo thanks for the SA3 info Arlieth >)

145

Strategy!

Ive figured the ultimate strategy against fighting Arlieths makoto…hit on his little sister! worked for me :]:lol:

146

Strategy!

Omg…thats just wrong. :lol:

147

While I’m not absolutely sure, i think it is this:

rh grab, s. fierce xx forward SAII, dash, rh SAII, axe kick, uppercut, j. fierce

(the last part is from Arlieth’s recent post) the problem with me when trying to do this combo is that when u do the second SAII, its harder to do the uppercut, but this was back when i was testing 2nd saii, dash uppercut, c. rh. with arlieth’s setup, it might be easier. anyway, im not sure…i guess arlieth would probably know her most powerful combo…if he does, i will post it on my site >> http://worstlookingsiteever.tripod.com

148

The problem with the second SA II in the combo is that Makoto ends up being closer to the opponent while juggling him/her. So what happens is that when you jump up for the axe kick, you may be past their body and end up whiffing the MOTION (not even the move) entirely. You could jump with a really early axe kick so you don’t jump past their body, but then you’ll have to attempt to kara-cancel her Hayate with Short kick just to reach them, probably the only time you’ll ever have to kara that move.

Evil5150: When using Normal attacks (as opposed to special attacks) in combos, you’ll find that they take more of a damage penalty (7%) than special attacks (5%). But remember that the damage penalty is cumulative. =P

choke grab -> fierce -> sa 2 -> axe kick -> hayate -> C.Roundhouse:

The C.Roundhouse is the 9th hit, and takes (IIRC), a 97% (63%) damage penalty. However, if you used a 2nd Hayate instead of the C.Roundhouse, it would be 95%(45%) for the damage penalty. So it makes sense that the fewer hits in the combo, the closer the damage is between normal and special attacks, so you need to see the damage differences between Choke -> Fierce -> SA2 -> combo, and just SA 2 -> combo by itself.

Also, it seems that there’s a few battles (Dudley, Alex), where the short and fast properties of their vertical jumps make it dangerous for Makoto to attempt a choke grab. Options, options, options… Working on those right now.

Edit: Oh yeah, I have tried using the Roundhouse SA II lately. WTF?!?!?!? That thing’s fucking DEADLY, j0! Makoto now gets to dominate 2/3rds of the screen. Agh.

Finally: For SA 3, i appears that her best matchups with it are: Shotokans, Alex, Ibuki, uhh…

Midmatchups: Q,

Worst matchups include: Dudley, Hugo(!), …
More on this later. I require munchies.

149

Against which character can the oroshi chop(qcb+p) be used to hit their limbs? Is the chop for more of an anticipatory move or in reaction? Also, I’ve seen the ex oroshi stun opponents from full screen against necro and afterwards an ex hayate was connected but it seems you can only do this trick against him.

150

Honestly, I don’t use the chop all that much to hit anticipatory pokes, since my own ranging skill isn’t very good and Makoto has piss-poor walking speed, making it very difficult to figure out where you can use it without worrying about eating the poke.

–

Looking back at the earlier post made by Lassic, I realize I made a mistake about misinterpreting the combo he posted. I didn’t notice the axe kick he threw in before the uppercut, thinking instead that he was talking about SA 2 -> dash, Uppercut -> j.Fierce.

However, a few things.

  • After the axe kick, YOU DO NOT DASH. It’s just axe kick, uppercut.

  • Even with the additional axe kick, the choke -> fierce -> sa2 -> axe -> strong uppercut (Fierce uppercut misses more often and does equivalent Stun damage to the Strong) -> j.Fierce (and no, before anyone other than Wael asks, no kara-EX uppercut for j00. Whiffs.) will STILL only stun Akuma and Remy at 100%. Testing was done on Ibuki and Yang, and if anyone has low stun meters after Remy, it’d most likely be them. I can dig up the exact charts if necessary and if someone finds an exception.

151

3S:Makoto stun combo

Hey I was just hopeing someone could fully explain this to me I mean I cant do the last part for some reson, Jump Fierce (I think thats it) anyways if someone could explain this combo that would be awsome thanks

152

The only two characters that can be stunned with one combo are Remy and Akuma. The combo is: Karakusa, s.fierce xx Abare, dash behind dp+fierce xx sj straight up fierce.

153

I saw somthing like, super, sj. axe kick, land dash mk, super

i cant get the axe kick and the dash mk to connect, any help?

154

Hrm…I’ve never seen this done with mk, just s.jab and s.strong. However I can tell you that the key is to do the axe kick later than usual. Not too late but later than you would if you were going to do the basic Hayate juggles. This will knock them up high and you will be near the ground allready, giving you more than enough time to dash under and input the normal attack, resetting your opponent leaving them one option, parry. This will stun all characters if it was preceeded by a Karakusa, fierce, and if it is followed up with a dash behind dp+fierce xx sj straight up fierce. But its not a true combo because it can be escaped with parry.

155

Repulsorgeist:

You’re probably doing the Strong DP+P too early. Time it as late as you can.

Hmm. I wonder if I should bump my topic. BTW Ricky, I’ve been messing around with some tick-throw setups. Reply in the main Makoto thread if you can (link from Dasrik’s sticky-admin post):

twd+Roundhouse (fake) -> … -> Karakusa

… Fierce (Point-blank only)
… C.Short -> Hayate(Cancel) -> Karakusa (Be sure you’ve already hit them with C.Short -> Hayate before, just to establish false pattern/precedent… hmm. ‘EFP.’)

And then you could just hit Roundhouse (push-kick) to avoid wakeup grabs because of its delay and hitboxes (although she can still get grabbed by kara-throws if you time the roundhouse poorly, or by command throws). Also prevents people from jumping away, which is a plus. Roundhouse is very underrated, I think.

At maximum C.Forward range, tick once, then kara-cancel grab. Unfortunately, this only really seems to work against crouching characters, otherwise they get tagged by the Short, or are missed completely. But I use it against Chun players when necessary… really risky though.

156

To connect the two supers:

hcb+kick,fierce punch, super, superjump qcb+lk,dash, jab punch cancel into super with fierce punch, dash and dp, superjump and roundhouse kick. Most of the characters should be stun after this.

157

some questions and some things I’ve found out. first questions.

okay, say I’m rushing down with Makoto and I corner my opponent. Do I keep them in the corner and continue to apply pressure OR do I work myself in behind them after a knockdown and go for karakusa -> fierce xx SAII blah blah blah? Not sure if it’s worth the risk but the 50% combo and lots of stun is nice. Also, what joystick input do you do to get the fastest ex axe kick off from the ground? as of right now, I’m doing a near 270 motion from up-forward all the way around to back and hit kick. I’ve been trying like crazy to Tiger Knee it, but it never seems to come out. Any suggestions?

Oh yeah, here’s some random crap like if you jump straight up and whiff a really late normal axe kick (late to a point where the hitting portion doesn’t come out) you can almost guarantee yourself a karakusa when you land. also, I’m not sure if anyone listed this setup, but near opponent karakusa -> s.fierce xx EX hayate juggle with towards short, kara-karakusa works surprisingly well.

One last question, how long can you do the dash jab stun infinite?

158

Working yourself into the corner with makoto is only worth it on a few characters who have alot of ways to be switched up, these people are not shotos. Test…you’ll figure it out, I assure you. And yes that setup is kinda old, but still extremely good. As for the axe kick, tigerknee is not really worth it, from what I can remember, its possible, but sometimes you get a backwards jumping mk/fk, which will fuck up your pressure string.

Edit: About the “infinite”…5 is the max jabs you’ll ever wanna do, but to be honest setting up this jab crap is so pointless that I wouldnt even use it to humiliate.

159

By the way, I did some more testing with Makoto’s uber-SA2 followup.

Shotos, Makoto, Alex seem to be pretty easy to hit, make sure the Strong Uppercut is actually late as possible.

It’s Dudley with whom the Strong Uppercut should be done earlier.

I’ve also done a full revolution on my SA selections- I’m once again, for the first time in at least a year, back to using Makoto’s SA 1- and you know what? It’s kinda sick countering rush-down Dudleys and Kens with. Not so good against runaways, for which I think SA 3 may be better for.

The biggest problem I’ve been running into with SA 3 is that it’s most effective when you can repeatedly knock people down- but her special moves can’t be EX’ed. However, it really, REALLY helps against characters like Ryu and Q. Just make sure that you can kill them within one or two combos before they can gather their wits- It is folly to try activating the super when they’re still at 50% or more health.

160

What setups do you guys like doing the most after an EX hayate in the corner? Do you prefer a knockdown or reseyting the opponent in the air? I like to reset in the air myself, I think it gives the opponent less time to think and they are less likely to expect it IMO.