I’ve woken up with a crouching jab before. But there was more to it than that.
When I got up, I tapped down and hit the throw command simultaneously for option select. Ken sat there and blocked the jab that came out instead of the tech-hit because you can’t throw when you’re crouching. So then, I got him with a karakusa. Risky, yes, but he was dashing up to me with constant c.short-jab-short combos to use the SA III on. I was vulnerable to a Strong-Fierce xx uppercut combo, but any low attacks or kara-throws would have been defended against.
Why did Ken sit there blocking? Because he expected me to wake up with the Tanden Renki and didn’t want to risk sticking a move out.
Why is a jab before a karakusa sometimes better than using the karakusa by itself? Because it comes out in half the time. You can also use it in instances where you think your opponent will jump out to keep them on the ground.
Also, all command grabs are not created equal. I dare you to try and wake up with Yun or Yang’s HCB+K command throw. Really. On the other hand, Hugo’s Moonsault Press has TWO frames of startup, which beats every jab or short poke in the game if done at the same time, except maybe Chun Li’s. Yun and Yang’s HCB+K command throw also has seven frames of startup, and I can’t even remember how many times i’ve been hit out of THAT one.
The main reason Makoto’s command throw seems so good is that the Forward/Roundhouse versions of it have an ‘active’ time of 4 frames(3 frames for the Short version). That means it’s possible to see the throw come out, dash in, and then get grabbed. Anyone who’s ever gotten nailed by Necro’s Slam Dance probably knows this feeling. (For the record, THAT one has 6 frames of active time. For a command throw, even a super, that’s like, not even fair. =P)
Nevertheless, waiting for the 7-frame startup time with your opponent doing absolutely nothing when you’re waking up… those situations are incredibly rare. Most likely you’d eat a 50% combo. And Geese, did it ever occur to you that I told you not to reply for your benefit?
You know, some ppl like to wake up with nothing and just wait to block ur reversal. Command grab on those types of players works. Also, you test the waters sometimes. You do command grab on wakeup, if it doesn’t work, don’t do it anymore, if it does then it was worth it. Ppl don’t usually wait for someone to get up thinking that they will combo that person for 50% damage. At least that’s not the mentality where I play.
IIRC (good ol xcape days) the conclusion was that it works… just not for command throws. This has to be done immediately (down+command throw). Hardly anyone I know does this though especially since this method doesnt solve for UOH, meaties and other distancing moves. It’s a viable option but IMO its safer just to block and tech hit.
Word. Was it ever a question with command throws though? I don’t think that was ever part of the question. Reportedly, Ryu can tech random command throws, but I’ve never seen it in action. I agree with block and tech hit. But here’s the converse, Tinder, if you decide to tech hit, might as well hit down right?
If anyone wants the Street Fighter III 3rd strike bible you can get it at animebooks.com. They also have the Street Fighter III all about the characters book, I dont have that one thou.
Good lookin out K-dog but that is the dreamcast version, which isn’t terribly thorough or applicable to the arcade version, decent for completeness, but really only worth stealing. STD! Also, the characters book looks a lot like the SF3 guide published in the US which I still have (pretty damn good guide too).
No, they really do have the fighting bible for Street Fighter III New Generation. I have it and it is for the arcade. It shows the moves for the arcade stick and everything.
I also have the SF III 3rd strike: fight for the future book, and that one is for the dreamcast version of 3rd strike. The one with Chun-Li on the cover is for the Dreamcast.
The other All about SF III: Fighting bible is for the arcade version of New Generation.
You’re right. On a semi-related note, does that fighting bible or dc guide list the meaty moves for every character? That would make all this rock/paper/scissor nonsense a lot more interesting.
Yeah, it has all of the moves and all of the characters colors! The bad thing is it all in japanese. But in the back of the books it has the directions for all the moves, with all the arrows and stuff. But again it’s hard to know what arrows are for which moves.
Actually “simultaneously” may be misleading. I probably delayed the tech-hit command about 5 frames after I hit down. I don’t know this exactly, but there’s a couple of tech-able frames that you’re allowed to escape from in every normal throw.
I noticed this as well, sometimes you’re allowed to tech very late after the throw animation begins -or at least it looks like it. It’s particularly noticeable with throws that shift the attacker’s sprite position very fast at start-up.
I wonder if anyone knows the tech-able frame data, it could perhaps prove useful to see how useful option select defense really is.
I used to option select a lot, but rarely do now. In my humble experience, throws in 3s you have the pre-throw frames, the grab, and then a tiny number of frames after the throw has connected to tech. If you do a standing throw, you can tech during any of these frames of your opps throw. But if you option select, I believe you can only tech the throw itself and the few frames afterward. So if your opp has started throw when you option, but hasn’t actually grabbed you yet, you start your cr. jab/short and immediately get thrown out of it. The window is definitely smaller to tech even if this explaination is wrong in some way.
I’m positive it works, but I think it’s options are limited (no pun intended). more than half the time I tried it I’d get thrown anyway, and if they don’t throw, you get a blocked cr. jab instead of a throw yourself.
Feel free to correct me, anyone who knows for sure.
I’ve been curious about other Makoto players like Ricky Kimball and Those Nebraska Peeps (I can’t remember whether it was Butch or Datrick that used her). What constitutes your Makoto playing styles? Have you guys started using SA III and the SA II crossup kara-EX Fukiage(DP+PP) setups yet? How often are cancelled Hayate attacks utilized in your matches (C.Short -> Hayate (cancel) dash in, Karakusa) Blah, blah, blah.
Sup, this is Ricky Kimball. I’ve just started playing SAIII, I’ve used SAII forever. I don’t think I’m going to continue using SAIII though because I don’t like the lack of EX moves. I like all the meter that comes with SAII. What DP+PP setups are you talking about? I’ve never heard about them. I use Hayate cancels sometimes, not too often. I’d like to use them more though. Don’t have much comp here, thats my main problem. My main game is RUSH RUSH RUSH STUN STUN STUN!!! I’m consistant with Abare combos and shiet. Thats probably what makes me so scary, I dunno. Later.
I’m having trouble linking an Abare Tosonami out of a standing fierce from a Karakusa. I can only do it very rarely. Does anybody know a way to do it effectively?
ok what can’t u do??? connect the fierce after the grab or connect the sa after the fierce???
ok here is the thing to connect the hp after the grab: as soon as u see the opponent’s feets touching the floor (u’ll hear her screaming a little) hit HP.
To connect the SA: hold back while doing the hp and when u see the animation starting do the sa motion (do 2 hcf not 2 qcf). Voila hope it helps…
BK t’as repris les cours??? moi des que je trouve mon taf c bon on pourra se fritter et je te rendrais tes 10euros lol^^