Thanks for the tips. I am still quite anxious to see you perform all your tricks with Makoto (if you ever produce a vid). The one problem i’m gonna have is that most of the people I play against aren’t used to Makoto. I know that in itself is also a huge advantage, but I can’t really employ the “dodge” tactics you described after activating Tanden Renki as they will just block. I know also that this is prime time to brutalize them, but I want to see more aspects of the super.
Question…
Is it possible to juggle with this combo after Abare Tosanami?
(super jump cancel) MK Tsurugi -> (dash) HP Fukiage -> either HK Tsurugi, crouching roundhouse kick or juming fierce punch
I read on the gamefaqs 3rdStrike board that this was possible, but I’m not sure myself.
Man, I created this sick Makoto setup that dizzies, and is 100% if the opponent has never seen it before or doesn’t expect it. It’s not a combo, but it sure as hell may trick a few opponents.
Okay, it takes place somewhere relatively near the corner:
HCB + Short, HCB + Short, s. Fierce xx QCB + Strong xx SAII, sjc (super jump cancel) QCB + Forward, c. Roundhouse…they are now dizzy if they have Urien dizzy bar or less…SAII, sjc QCB + Forward, c. Roundhouse == DEATH (to Urien stamina or less)!
A standing fierce punch comboed into a strong Oroshi doesn’t work on most characters. In fact, I think that that combo only works on the taller characters, i.e. Q, Hugo, maybe Urien as well. On top of that, they might have to be crouching so I don’t know if you can do that combo after a Karakusa. I’m not entirely sure, but if it was totally possible, I’d do it all the time :D.
You can escape the 2nd grab after the first. It’s just that most ppl know that good Mak players won’t mess up, so they kinda just take it easy for a while…hehe. Similar example is with Alex’s SGH…if he gets u, u just chill for a bit cause you know he’s gonna do fierce FC, then fierce PB. But see, my friend (who i know to be VERY good and never messes up) did this to me…so I was like, okay, i’m fucked…so i kinda just dazed off for a bit…so after the first fierce FC, he did ANOTHER one, and then a fierce PB…tearing up my life bar in the process.
Okay, second thing is that after the 2nd grab, the fierce combos on anyone, but the QCB + Strong is NOT supposed to combo, its just that most ppl block low, so they MIGHT get hit by it, and then you can combo SAII off it. From there on, its all fair game cause they can’t escape the dizzy or the followup super.
And remember, it may not work on ELITES or fucking robots who never mess up, but it sure as hell gets respect if u do pull it off. Dizzy + 100% == TOO GOOD…and probably an S++ rating if u got a perfect.
I see your point. It’s pretty weird how you say that most people will block low though. From my experience, people are usually blocking high after a Karakusa because the usual attack that comes after a standing fierce is Abare Tosnami. But I’ll keep that in mind :D. It might just work on somebody over here.
Also, I know about the 2 Karakusas. I do that a lot just to charge my meter. It’s a cool trick.
Okay, I did some more testing and I discovered some new things.
I tried it on Ken, and I had some trouble getting the strong QCB + Punch to connect after the fierce pushed him back. After some more testing, I came to the conclusion that you need to do the fierce xx QCB + Strong as tight together as possible for the Overhead Chop to reach them.
You do not need the second HCB + Kick; it just adds more risk and the stun meter goes down while your doing the second, so it’s basically pointless. The “combo” still stuns and does 100% without this.
You can do it midscreen, not just near corner.
It might not stun Hugo or some others, but confirmed so far are Urien and Ken. So that is most of the cast.
Ugh. QCB+Strong is WAY too vulnerable unless you cancel into SA III. Makoto’s defensive options are horrible if she gets knocked down- no need to waste an SA II doing it either. The karate chops should be used to bait them into a parry for SA III setups only, to chop down someone’s obvious pokes, or kara-cancelled during a wakeup game (At back-dash distance, her three main options are sweep, kara-grab, and kara-chop.)
btw, QCB+Jab > SA II works against Hugo from fullscreen if he’s crouching. Or pretty close to full screen. Only character it seems to work against.
Kal: After SA II, those finishers you mentioned… hmm.
Roundhouse axe kick: I should try it, but it’s very risky. Your opponent can quickrise out of it because it’ isn’t part of the super, and you’ll still be floating from the kick.
C.Roundhouse: I use that all the time to set up for another mind-game. Great stun.
J.Fierce: Like the RH axe kick, it poses a risk if you land first (depending on the character you use it against). Also, it doesn’t have the stun qualities of the C.Roundhouse (her j.Fierce jumping straight UP does, but not her twd jump somersault Fierce) and the damage is reduced severely because it’s a normal attack, not a special attack. (During combos, normal hits get a higher danage penalty than special attacks; this is the opposite of supercancelling a normal attack, which is usually penalized LESS than a special attack.)
To ‘dodge’ attacks with the Tanden Renki: You need to pull it off AS THEY BEGIN THE MOVE. Try it after you’ve been knocked down and you’re getting back up, or doing a karate chop (QCB+P) and supercancel that when they parry it as THEY get up. Also try it when you jump at someone and not attack. You’ll most likely dodge a grab.
(If a super is listed as having x frames of invincibility, subtract 50 frames for black-screen startup time and the difference will be the invincibility frames in game-time.)
Makoto has 2 frames of invincibility for the Seichuusen Godanzuki (SA I), 1 (;_ frame of invincibility for the Abare Tosanami Kudaki (SA II) and…
A whopping 36 frames of invincibility for the Tanden Renki: Seme no Kata (SA III).
That’s a lot of invincibility frames. Anyways, I wanna correct my combo. It seems you can’t combo SAII from a strong Chop in the corner. You can only do it when you’re in your own corner. I was under a different impression. Anyways, I decided that the best thing to do when you connect with a SAII is this:
SAII, dash, jab reset, SAII, sj forward Air Kick, c. rh, dash, rh grab, s. fierce xx fierce Dash Punch (dizzy)…now do rh grab, s. fierce xx fierce Dash Punch (they should be dead)…but just in case, finish with s. rh to push away (this part is just cause i like how s. rh looks )
Geese, let me put this plain and simple. I do not want, nor do I need your Theory-Fighter setups. Furthermore, your setups and combos have holes in them such as forgetting to throw an axe kick after the first SA II, then dash, jab reset, SA II, etc. Also, you CAN connect the super from a Strong chop in the corner on certain opponents (big guys.) Also works mid-screen.
I’m tired of having to correct your posts. Please don’t bother posting in here again.
Hey Arlieth, you obviously think you’re some hot fucking shot in 3S cause you wrote some Makoto FAQ on www.gamefags.com, so I understand your pathetic need to put my setups down.
With that out of the way, SAII hardly ever connects off a jab/strong chop unless you’re within your half of the screen. Even when you’re exactly at half screen, it still doesn’t work sometimes. I tried connecting strong chop xx SAII on Urien in the corner and it did NOT work. Unless you consider him a small guy…I dunno. It didn’t work with Hugo either, if I recall correctly.
Second, you don’t need to do the forward axe kick after the first SAII, you can just dash, s. jab reset, then do another SAII.
Third, go fuck yourself. I will post in this thread if I want you asshole.
Anyway, Arlieth, I’m wondering if you could make those Makoto vids available. Are they on any site? More Tanden Renki scenarios would be nice too. Thanks.
The Kara-cancelled EX Uppercut setups are available as files 3rd_makotoXX.mpg where XX =07, 08, 10 and 11.
Umm, right now, I don’t have a lot of scenarios to set up for the Tanden Renki. I need to playtest it more. But to recap:
-When you’re getting up
-Supercancelled off of a Strong chop when your opponent is getting up (you’re good to go if they parried the Chop, more than enough time to escape a raging demon)
-When you land from a jump (like jumping over them, in front of them to bait a grab etc)
-While parrying or red-parrying a multi-hit attack or super such as Hugo’s Hammer Frenzy (Use SA III to “dodge” the last hit of the Hammer Frenzy and retaliate with Fierce Uppercut -> Roundhouse Axe kick)
-After hitting your opponent with a Hayate/Dash Punch
You could use your imagination too. For example, try doing a Karakusa, Fierce -> Hayate(Hold,Cancel), wait for them to try to attack, activate SA III and then retaliate. If you’ve established a pattern of dashing in for another grab after the cancelled Hayate(old Japanese tactic), it works fairly well, but that’s only relevant to my playing style, so I’m not sure what others do after a canceled Hayate.
thanks for the answers arlieth! i was wondering wtf i was doing wrong with sa2…
expanding a bit on my newbie questions:
i meant ‘roundhouse sa2 in my corner’ as in, from where you start the match, dash back once or twice so you can see your corner but you’re still on the right side of the screen, karakusa, standing fierce buffer into sa2. it got blocked, and i was wondering if it isn’t supposed to connect at all. i have a feeling it isn’t.
i asked that question because some people say sa2 connects on ‘your half of the screen’ instead of ‘your corner’, so i thought you could connect sa2 off a standing fierce as long as you’re on your half of the screen.
gah, i’m bad at explaining ;( i hope you understood.
hmm. i forgot to put in ‘short kick connects/gets blocked against the SAME person (sometimes connects)’… i think it’s because they were crouching. am i right?
ehhh, timing your grab to be excuted just when they get up sounds very hard. need practice, which means $$$ at the arcade
also, kara-cancelling chops and dps sound very useful… i’m beginning to understand why makoto makes opponents guess.
thanks!
edit: i forgot to ask, which version of karakusa should i use? i’ve been sticking with roundhouse, but it seems the short version comes out much quicker while the range is not much different. any suggestions?
anyone -
i’m having trouble doing the sa2 reset combo. the one that involves (what seems to be) doing the air qcb+mk late, dashing mp and sa2 again …
first off, it looks like you need to connect the first sa2 at exactly midscreen (please correct me if i’m wrong) … 2nd prob is that more often than not, by the time i do dash into stand mp, the guy is too low in the air to be hit …
help? … btw from looking at those ex-dp crossups clips, ex moves act like supers in resets ?? (aka only escapable through parrying?)
does that mean I could do something with ryu like ex kick thingy, stand wp, ex anything ?
When people say SA2 connects on your half of the screen, that means your OPPONENT must be on your half of the screen when you start the karakusa grab. Depending on the character’s size, you may have to be even closer to your corner.
Yes, crouching characters often have wider hitboxes while crouching.
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Ohh… no, you do the dash, jab(lp) after the air qcb+k, not a dash, strong(mp).
the EX-Uppercut crossup clips don’t actually juggle the opponent, the opponent simply doesn’t know where to block because the crossup hits so quickly. It doesn’t actually continue the combo and hit the opponent while he’s still in the air, the opponent actually landed first. If you were going to try that ryu stuff you mentioned, it’d whiff completely (because they were still in the air) or it’d be blockable.
WTF… I know that it was long… but never that long. That means you can actually start it against a jump in…
And the invincibilty frame for the abare is bullshit. The one frame you get is when you’re crouching up on top of the corner ready to come down. Whatever. I’ve been supered out of it so I know it isn’t the part where she is coming down.
frame of invincibility for the Abare Tosanami Kudaki (SA II) and…
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