3rd Strike General Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
401

I think that instant jump sa1 should’ve been a little lower. Since kuroda set it up with short cr. short dash up (also ready for hit confirm super), Any top player immediately recognizes it and goes for

a) Throw
b) Chuns axe kick OH
c) cr.jab (which Rikimaru did)

Kurodas instant jump SA1 should beat ALL 3. And even on block, Kuroda should recover on time. (Maybe far fierce might hit him)

But Chun had no meter so it was high reward/low risk. Would’ve been so sick. Instant KO. Taunt buff + potential cr.damage.

402

Oh man I need to watch these vids now, it sounds too sick.

403

Kuroda’s mains appear to be Gouki and Q. Maybe Q even more than Gouki, but those are the main two.

Nobody could be faulted for not knowing though. A player of his level looks so comfortable/dominant with almost every character it becomes hard to differentiate what is his main.

404

I think he just plays Akuma when he wants to flex on people or hurt someones feelings, otherwise he’s a Q main

405

You guys ever notice how much Daigo looks like Keanu Reeves in Bill and Ted?

406

Two questions: how does one stop from getting frustrated if nothing you do versus the other person is working, and how do you instill fear in the other person so that when you do finally get them in the corner or knocked down you can start mix ups effectively and not have them just immediately get out of that situation. I was told you do that by making them afraid to hit buttons, which in my mind equates to parry/counter poke everything they do but that can’t be all there is to it can there.

407

I think I touched on this in the thread where we were discussing the 3s gods. Players like Nuki and Rikimaru will never flinch at someone who isn’t already better than them so you have to see it in terms of arrogance<->humility and that’s really all there is to it. There will always be that player factor where they refuse to even acknowledge the possibility of a loss, and that is common among a certain type of player, and that is where you will simply have to gauge the players skill set to determine how to go about rendering them helpless, even if only for a second.

To put it in more metagame dependent terms, you would basically have to square out a new rock paper scissors scenario that maybe they aren’t prepared for. You have been displaying a strong rock vs rock, rock vs scissors game as they place a defense of paper against your strong rock game. They have also been forking out to a quick switch to scissors game that probably isn’t as well developed as the rock game, in case you made a feasible paper scenario. So, the best way to do this is to bait them into corollary action and then capitalize. They poke you out of slow change ups? Bait the poke and parry. They tech all your grabs? Bait the tech and stuff/parry. They are blocking everything? Kara-grab. So on and so forth.

408

BASICALLY when someone is stuck in the corner they can no longer space themselves accordingly to your pokes or jump ins so you need to space yourself to where its most advantageous, you also need to be prepared to stop them jumping out

409

whenever im getting thrashed i usually pause for a moment between games and try to remember one specific thing i did that they used against me.
try as hard as you can to remember things which just flat out failed for you. keep them at the front of your mind going into the next game.

it’s really easy to just play and get caught up in the action and not realize where things go wrong. try to pull back a bit, don’t try to analyze everything all at once, focus on specific stuff.

at least for me this is how I improve and gain any kind of traction. better players will see right through you so you need to basically see through yourself too, that’s how you mind fuckle people and make sweet decisions.

410

So when something flat out fails, don’t try it again in the next game? What do you mean see through yourself? Is that another way of saying to recognize what you’re doing wrong?

411

I’ve always found that that’s a good idea, Tebbo. The thing is, when I realise what I’ve been doing wrong (and a way to fix it), I almost never find myself in that same situation again. It would be funny if it wasn’t so frustrating. It’s a curse.

For example, yesterday I was playing a Ken mirror against this old-school player, Paddy Hackers. He had learnt how to red-parry a st.MP off of a cross-up j.MK, which is a blockstring I love using for pressure. Eventually, it had happened to me enough times for me to work out that no, it was not a fluke, and what I should be doing to beat it (namely j.MK > throw). However in subsequent games I couldn’t land a single cross-up j.MK, even though I tried and tried.

412

(Sorry for the double post)

Another interview from the King of 3rd Strike Facebook page, this time of grand old French player Billy Kane! In this interview, Billy is asked about motivations for hosting the tournament, his beginnings in 3S, advice for Yuns and insight into the final match with Marko. Source: https://www.facebook.com/kingof3rdstrike/posts/1547500828802760

(I’ve added some text to make it more clear as to when Billy Kane is speaking)

[details=Spoiler]Very few people have been a part of the European scene for as long as BillyKane. The French Yun player is still competitive and recently won KING OF 3RD STRIKE against top level rivals. What keeps a four-time SBO participant playing at Arcade Street every Friday night? Find out with our new interview!

KO3RD: Not only were you the big winner of KING OF 3RD STRIKE, but you were also the one who worked behind the scenes to make this tournament happen. Can you tell us what motivated you to run this international tournament?

Billy Kane: It was indeed a win on all counts for me, but to be honest I am happier about the fact that people seemed to enjoy the event. I can’t take all the credit for organizing the tournament though, several people contributed (Anatole, Abou, Nighty, Yaz, Makaveli, etc.) so it was actually a team effort.

A couple of months ago I spent a weekend in Stockholm and met my friend Omed and a few Swedish players I didn’t know there (Client, Rafael, etc.) They told me that they would like to play against French players, so I told them that we would run a tournament for them when they would visit Paris. Thankfully our British and Swiss friends decided to join the fun as well and made it a truly international event.

KO3RD: Which player gave you the most trouble in the tournament?

Billy Kane: Looking back, it was probably Niabanh. Our match went to the last round so objectively speaking I guess he was the one who gave me the most trouble. He is always a very dangerous player. :smile:

KO3RD: Many foreign players have travelled to enter this tournament. Is there any specific foreign player that you would like to meet and play against at the next tournament?

Billy Kane: Not really. I have a lot of respect for anyone who has the dedication to travel for 3rd Strike. It shows a lot of passion and commitment to the game. I would be very happy if some of the people who attended this event decided to come back in the future, because it would mean that they had a good time in the first place.

KO3RD: Let’s talk about you now. You are often called the “Grand Pope” of the French community. When did you start playing 3rd Strike and what motivates you to keep playing?

Billy Kane: I first saw 3rd Strike at an arcade in Toronto, Canada where I was on vacation. I was terrible but fell in love with the game instantly. I started playing it in 2000 on Dreamcast and won my first tournament in 2002. Back then no one was using throws or delayed timings, just straight-up guessing on every wake-up situation. Those were the days!

My free time is much more limited now so I can only play 2/3 hours a week at most, but I will keep playing as long as I have fun. I also made some good friends in the community over the years, so the game is also an excuse to go out and meet them.

KO3RD: Yun is your main character. Was he your first character? Can you give us your reasons for playing him?

Billy Kane: My first character was actually Chun-Li because I liked her animations and she had very powerful moves. I started playing Yun in 2002 because no one else in Paris was playing him and I thought Genei Jin combos looked pretty cool. Of course, the fact that he was one of the best characters in the game didn’t hurt so the time investment seemed to be worth it at the time.

KO3RD: Do you have any advice for other Yun players?

Billy Kane: I can only share my own philosophy which may or may not be optimal. But I think one of the best ways to play Yun is to use Genei Jin for control rather than damage. Don’t be greedy, because playing purely for damage tends to make you more predictable.

On the other hand, forcing the opponent into a particular stance (offensive or defensive) is the strongest psychological tool you can have in this game. GJ gives you an edge because it can influence the pace of the game and place people in situations they find uncomfortable. If you put enough pressure on a player, they will crumble eventually. It’s just a matter of adapting and pressing the right buttons.

KO3RD: Tell us about your finals against Marko. Were you apprehensive about playing him?

Billy Kane: I can’t say I was apprehensive, because facing a strong player is always exciting. But I think Marko is the best player in Europe, so I knew I would need a consistent level of performance to come out on top. I could not afford many mistakes and needed to push the right buttons to put the pressure on him right away.

During the tournament I had formed a plan to counter his preferred playstyle, which was to avoid giving him any counter-attack opportunities. No predictable pokes or dive kicks to parry, because he likes converting those into max-damage SA2. Before our first match I spoke to Mymoza about this, and he agreed that it was a solid gameplan.

So I played a “safe” defense consisting of blocking on wake-up and jumping away to avoid kara-throws. He later made some adjustments and challenged me directly with meaties but I noticed the change and was able to counter with blocking/parrying.

Offensively, I tried to take away his options quickly starting from the safest to the more risky ones. The idea was to force him out of his comfort zone. This went pretty well from the beginning so it gave me confidence that I could do it.

Tournament games are often decided on small details and in the end, he was a little slower at the adapting game this time so I was able to win this time.

KO3RD: Last question since we are all dying to know the answer: [red parry + jump], bullshit option or genius idea?

Billy Kane: Sorry, I can’t talk about that option select publicly. It’s just too OP. :smile:[/details]

If you liked that interview, you guys really should like King of 3rd Strike’s FB page. These interviews are pretty dope (and I’m guessing have a lot of work poured into them), plus it’s a small gesture of support for the French scene.

413

Yeah often it’s not the exact same thing but you still need to notice where you stumble. Like what sequence led to that.

@darkhiryuu yeah, more or less though doesn’t need to be that extreme (that’s the ‘see through yourself’). you just need to police yourself and the first part of that is remembering so you can recognize.
morale wise you need a short memory but tactically you need a long one.

of course like tiredocean is saying sometimes you think you’re doing everything right (noticing spots where you gave them control and avoiding them) and you just stumble into new stuff which wrecks you or you don’t have the opportunity to react the ‘right’ way again.

that’s where the ‘see through yourself’ comes in.
i’m mostly kidding by phrasing it like that, but that is more or less what you need to do. basically if you’re obviously staying away from things which didn’t work for you the previous round/game, you’re doing no better than just doing those things like before. so you need to see your own playing as an outsider. classic situation is wakeup shoryu. if you get punished hard for a shoryu, you remember that and think ‘i won’t go for those unless i KNOW it will work’, he knows you are feeling that. it might be the ‘correct’ response in a sense, but because it’s obvious it ends up being incorrect.

414

So from that then it sounds like when something doesn’t work the solution you come up with needs to be something that isn’t blatantly obvious to keep the opponent guessing.

415

I’ve been trying to just speed up that process. I forget sometimes because I have bad habits, but I try to make a mental note that “this guy is going to parry out of that,” and do something different the very next time the same situation happens.

That kind of gets into 7-layers-of-yomi or whatever though, which I am bad at dealing with. Like if I do the chicken loop with Oro, and I think the guy I’m playing against has seen some Oro stuff, I might go for the jab -> same side reset because the cross-under is kind of the obvious thing to do. That usually works out, but but then the next time it happens I’m back to he-knows-I-know-he-knows. . . and it just feels like a dumb guess.

But! I can “reset” that string with any of my normals, and they all cause the opponent to pop out differently and that leaves them in a slightly different situation. So I might do jab xx EX disc and dash in for pressure, do the full loop for meter, or whatever, just to say “hey, I can do this,” and put more things to think about in the other guy’s mind. Hopefully if I can make him worry about 6 different situations instead of 2, he’ll get hit by the good stuff more often.

I don’t know if that’s helpful or even smart, but that’s where I’m at with this, I guess.

416

A good way to keep morale memory short is to recognize how much damage you are risking on yourself. Just throwing that in there.

417

in my experience, someone being afraid of your offense is something you take advantage of, but its too nebulous a goal to make an integral part of your strategy. its barely different than saying you’re trying to win imo. too general.

just maintain control of an advantageous situation and the rest will come. always balance your attack with the likelihood of your move getting parried/reversaled and you losing momentum. knowing how to dominate offensively depends on lot on matchup knowledge and experience so its hard to give a single tip that will give you a big boost

it also helps to not fret too much on individual interactions. TiredOceans example of j.mk crossup especially resonates with me. sometimes you can focus too much on a specific situation and its counter that you miss the bigger picture. sometimes you just guess wrong and thinking too much about it can leave you unprepared for the next mixup.

lastly offense is probably in the most subjective realm of 3s strategy. theres a balance you have to find between playing based on feeling and based on calculating risk, and that balance will probably depend on personal playstyle.

418

Reading your posts is always like watching an anime that got cut short of its full run, and not in the bad way. I will read your posts and agree, but they can be vague. Knowing you, I expect you to elaborate and so I don’t let it get to me and keep reading. You eventually touch back and start up another good point. At which point, you just drop the topic and allow me to feel human again by reminding me just how shitty a player I am.

419

darkhiryuu- You are asking way to vague a question as there are many ways to escape a corner. From the sounds of it you do not know all of your options or all of your opponents options in that situation. You need to sit down and figure out what you can do what they can do in practically every given situation.

SJ OS, guard jump, guess parry, parry covered throw… You need to know how to beat and optimally punish everything they can do in that situation.

420

I wasn’t just asking about how to escape the corner but also when you finally get a knockdown on someone as well, though the things you listed could apply to that too. The people I’m playing aren’t even using most of the options you mentioned, I feel like I pick the wrong option most of the time when I think I can stop them from escaping, if I try an attack I get parried, or if I try and throw they jump out on reaction.