2nd time around, low tier rules

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
1

so as with the first one, I would like to see what people think of it now.

Basically, we play by these rules.

ban top 4
cyke
IM\wm
strider\doom
BH
SIM
spiral****

everyone else is playable and no ratio to make it as simple as possible. The ratio system is kinda twacked out. For instance, iceman isn’t super top tier but since strider is playable, strider\iceman is ghetto strider\doom so he has to be in the same ratio to prevent that duo from exsisting etc… not fair for iceman who’s probably top 30 but its in place to stop strider. So iceman takes more of hit than strider does.

SIM is gone because that bitch can just run forever. Not fair for low tiers who can’t reach that height. Which is 90% of them. By leaving him in, he makes this low tier system damn near useless. Get the life advantage vs someone, then run for 90 seconds.

Tron\mando are allowed because all though the may be good assists, there are better point characters than them.

Tron, counters mando AA but sonson, charlie\guile, shoto’s, psylock, cammy all beat tron so there is balanced amongst the AA’s. If someone is going to whore psylock AA which is likely, baiting her out and punishing with tron once can make or break the fight.

To some extent, the characters I banned we all know what there capable of except for SIM but I already listed why he’s banned. Do we really need to see doom\BH are capable of when those characters have gotten 10 years worth of play in top tier tournaments? My answer, no. Lets give the rest of the cast a shot @ high level play.

Banning the characters I mentioned leaves the characters who are very good but don’t get any kind of exposure of large exposure. It also makes for the most diversity amongst the rest of the cast thats left.

comparing this simple system to a ratio system thats complex\ not fully tweaked, imo its easy to see why the ratio system is flawed from the start.

But as before, if there are any counter arguements, I’m all ears.

2

Ban Sim?

But not Ban Tron?

I’m already confused, here.

3

I think there still needs to be a ratio system or else you get ridiculous teams like Rogue/Cammy/Tron.

4

low tier isn’t even marvel w/o tron though tech.

:arazz:

5

I just don’t agree. Why on earth should we ban Sim and not ban people like Commando and Tron? I can’t wrap my brain around that. You pick a few and leave the rest? I still say just ban the top four and leave the rest. Picking Tron along with some other guys is as boring as Strider/Doom IMO.

6

thats because sim is a totally different kind of character than tron or commando.

tron and mando are assists with “decent” point games

sim is a decent assist with unlimited runaway potential and a MUCH better point game overall than 90% of the cast.

sim is more like a high tier where tron and commando are mid tier characters at best.

understand?

7

Its just that he is so hard to master. You can’t pick him up and just expect to have an advantage at the outset like blackheart or Cyclops. You can’t push a magic button like Tron and Commando and make stuff happen. If there were more advanced Dhalism players (and they’re rare) then maybe I would understand.

And the ones I have seen that are even decent with him don’t run away like that. Even Kanu, one of the best Dhalism players I’ve seen is fairly aggressive. I think that should be taken into account. I guarantee if Dhalism were allowed, there would be few who would pick him and even fewer who could play him well.

EDIT: Basically, this is not just about Sim. This goes in line with the argument that low-tier tournaments seek to see more characters used outside of the big four. We have a severe shortage of Morrigan, Dhalism, Thanos, etc. players. Yes, I mean without Tron, BTW. So, please don’t ban characters that need to be repped more like Sim. Rather, I believe low-tier is truly low tier without Tron than with it, since basically Tron will make anyone go up a tier or two, easy. And the list conveniently forgets Morrigan, who is basically godlike with Tron. Take Sim? Then Morrigan should go too. And where’s Cammy? But really, I just think the big four should go and leave it at that.

8

Marvel is Marvel. If there is a tourney, and someone calls rules regarding a ban, I’d still play. To each his own. The game is very flexible.

9

Shut up plz

10

:lol:

11

Alrighty then…

Tell this marvel noob what he’s missing. Explain to me where I went wrong in my logic. Instead of wasting my time and yours with Shut Up this, Shut up that, tell me what I’m so wrong on. That’ll make me shut up. I want to know why Tron defines low-tier. I want to know why we can keep Morrigan/Tron, Cammy/Tron and other dangerous people. I want to know why we’re banning Dhalism when people hardly play him and even less get good with him. So far, I haven’t been satisfied.

12

Tron isn’t as broken as you seem to think. She’s an amazing assist but you just need to adjust your strategy to fight against her (eg. blindly rushing down someone with Tron assist will get you killed really quickly). On the other hand, if someone really chooses to runaway with Dhalsim, there’s absolutely nothing most low tier characters can do about it and you just have to sit there and hope the Dhalsim player messes up. I play Morrigan/Cammy/Tron and other combinations of xxx/Cammy/Tron. They’re good solid teams with some nasty tricks but once you learn what things to watch out for, they’re very beatable. You just need to step up your game and learn how to fight Tron.

13

Okay, you got me with the “step up your game” argument; I can’t argue with that. Yeah, I know she’s beatable but I do think we see too much of her. But then again, like you said, if you know how to get around it then its not a problem. I just think we should see more Dhalism players. Alright, I’m done with it, I guess.

14

thanks! lol

btw, no spiral ban? hmmm

15

When someone gets hit by Tron:


*this is the 2nd place I’ve posted this link so far today on SRK…it’s just that funny

When a person who knows how to watch out for Tron gets the slip on a Tron-assist masher:


*same scenario lol

Yea, that’s odd. Spiral is usually included in the first batch of banned cookies.

16

i would imagine spiral with iceman/tron or something and some of her other trap variations like jump, summonswords, sword-sword-sword, land, jump-sword-sword-sword-summon might be ‘ugh’

17

I’d totally forgotten about Spiral.

18

I’m gonna give some respect to Tech on this. Granted, I don’t think Sim should be allowed in Low Tier tournament action, I still think he deserves to hear the debate from the other side in a civil manner.

He’s admitting to being someone comin up in the game, so give him what he wants, not just some fluffy response to the effect of ‘ur dump’.

For a bit of a response to your question-- and Goa hit it pretty right on–

Tron when coupled with random low tiers equates to some serious damage output. Look at the matchup Sabertooth vs. Chun-li-- w/o Tron, Chun is ALL over 'tooth she’s got double/triple jump, air dash, wall jump-- very simply a whole bunch of ways to land a hit from multiple angles where the best Tooth can go is a very simple high, low, or an weak overhead w/o many followup options.

On the other hand, give Tooth some Tron rings and all of a sudden, his 1 hit overhead is deadly, he’s got followups on hit or block. Tron brings the notion that you MUST fear this character’s ability to hit you and makes random bums turn into Fierce Combatants.

If you ban tron, then basically what you establish is the need for a ratio system within the bastard characters. B/c there’s no way Morri/Chun/Rogue/Cammy/Spidey/Iceman blah blah blah are in the same league as Sabertooth/Jin/Amingo/Sakura/Gambit/everybody else.

Very simply, it’s in the spirit of the game to leave Tron in. Chun/Tron vs. Tooth/Tron-- all of a sudden its not lookin bad for the furry guy. But thats not to say that Iceman/Thanos/CapCom isn’t givin’ em a run for their money. If you’re too good for Tron or it gets boring for you, have faith in your hobos bc 9/10 you will still have the advantage when it comes to Team Chemistry bc its harder than you’d think to build team thats square from both xx/Tron characters as well as Tron on point.

I just got beasted yesterday with my Tron teams against Spidey/Akuma/CC because i got too greedy/dumb with my tron calls. Very easy to do versus a good holding assist or an AAA and anybody who can block. I’ll post em up later.

IMO leave the top assists Psy/Tron/CC bc A) they’re all very useful and open up new avenues for the rest of the cast, B) they’re all closely matched and can effectively counter/punish each other and C) they all deserve to get some more love on point.

Low Tier is IMO a dead even heat btwn:

Random Hobo/Tron/AA : standard Tron makes some bum good

Slowpoke/Projectile/Ground type Assist/AA : aka gives Hulk/Bison/Gief etc a way to close ground in a hurry and safely ie ROOP FYTAAAGH

xx/Beamer/CC : to create ghetto hail storms/safe/damaging dhcs

also, theres a lot of room w/in low tier for some gnarly assist kill based teams i.e. Battery/Thanos/AA

Lots of ways to win w/o Tron especially bc thatsss one assist thats vulnerable on screen for a long time = dead little girl in a robot suit. Plenty of team Tron slayers out there to be found.

19

Hey, I’m going to need you to stop making Marvel seem like it could possibly make sense, sir. Thanks :tup:

Also, as I told Tech, I don’t think Sim should be banned until his run-away, drill cancel into AD plus assist has been exploited to win a low-tier tourney. mho

20

Agreed. Okay, I agree with the Tron thing; very enlightening explanation.

Team Sacrilege FTW

EDIT: But, since I don’t play with Tron, does that mean my teams suck with Morrigan? Am I losing untapped potential? Can I still make my Morrigan good by compensating with my skills and using my assists creatively?