Given the original conditions (No meter build, etc) I’d say Dante would be up there. Tools for everything = awesome point.
Would this setup work with Magneto’s shockwave on incoming, dhc to Spiderman? And then same, with magneto’s easier TAC infinite. Don’t have access to the game now, so can’t test. If it does though, might consider picking up point spidey.
Slow normals + subpar throw game = not exceptional on point.
Viper goes even with Vergil. Her zoning game is stronger than his. Shes pretty good at running from SS too. Vergil’s stinger doesnt eat projectiles so if hes in the range to stinger then shes in range for H seismo. Guess which one is rapid fire and jump cancelable? You use focus as a footsie tool basically and its not like it has much risk anyway if you think you’re reacting to anything with focus its pretty obvious you dont understand how focus is meant to be used. If you blindly rush in with Viper like shes Magneto of course shes gonna get bopped by him because her air normals cant fuck with his.
Funny thing is people talk about the hyperbole in this thread over Viper but yall do the same thing with Vergil. “WHAT THE NIGGA PUT ON SPIRAL SWORDS 9-1 MATCHUP CANT WIN, JUST PUT DOWN THE STICK SON.” Just an observation lol. Wolverine with Tatsu is pretty annoying but I dont think its bad. Laser blows up Tatsu (Every character with Tatsu is annoying as Viper though since it forces you to really watch you spacing in the mid-screen game which is generally where she likes to abuse focus and EX Seismo) I’m pretty sure Vergil or Dante + Tatsu beat her though. And obviously Zero + anything.
Ghost Rider suprisingly doesn’t really do bad against Vergil either.
This is too real for this thread. You’re going to have to stop.
The only thing I’ll probably be making it to is Final Round. Either way Tatsu gives most of the cast trouble so you wouldn’t be showing me anything new. By the way the assist works it’s hard for it to not give any character trouble. If the assist you’re using can’t give the opponent’s character trouble…it’s not very good.
Which even then that’s kind of in a vacuum because only the worst characters simply have trouble just by the opponent pressing A2 and not doing much with their point.
to be fair this is actually the truth when they are on
also when he’s in dt and xf3
Viper mains are just…retarded (about her). Tatsu is the single most threatening thing against her in the game and now its delusional saying it can destroy her by completely nullifying the range where she is best at. Also there is just no way I can see Viper beating Vergil. She has to rely on some amazing reads while Vergil just does whatever the hell he wants. Shes amazing when you can read your opponent which is why I play Vergil in tourney and Viper in long mm sets. Viper has less trouble with Zero than Vergil. I feel most people in here are too caught up in theory and not actual real life practice. Or are just playing shitty vergils who run into a wall of seismos. either or.
edit: and tatsu gives viper more trouble than a majority of the cast. many characters give no fucks about it now generally. Viper HAS TO CONTROL the mid range. Tatsu flat out can stop that.
Im still not clear on why Tatsu particularly hurts viper over other good-ish mobility, no-fly characters like Spencer or Dante.
vergil swords is amazing because it shifts momentum into vergil’s hands. sure, he doesn’t get a lot of great mixups but the opponent doesn’t have a lot of options to beat it, so that gives vergil a chance to set stuff up
Viper still has more tools against tatsu than a majority of the cast especially since she can a fast assist on top of her zoning that will beat the start up of it. Once she gets a spacing in the fight there isn’t much way for you to call tatsu that won’t get Akuma eating huge damage from seismos and lasers and possibly dying. Wolverine + Tatsu at close range beats everybody for the same reason any other good assist + Wolverine beats everybody. Why not just Wolverine + Pbeam since that won SCR and has more range than tatsu?
If tatsu went full screen across and Viper didn’t have focus or the ability to put shit all over the screen maybe…
Morrigan Missiles is more threatning to Viper than Tatsu IMO. Actually a lot of things are more threatning to Viper than tatsu in a vacuum.
Zero has a subpar throw game augmented by assists. Dante can have them too. He may have slow normals but the range and utility of the normals are good enough to utilize on point IMO.
Especially since his mobility exceeds Zero’s and Devil Trigger puts a damper on most of Zero’s shit.
go into training and try to play viper and do all her moves against and see how preemptively you have to do simple shit like seismos to maybe beat it. Now exemplify that with a character doing whatever behind it. DJ can put up a match of Marlin beating Jwong but I can find at least 15 more of him getting wrecked by noel.
Proper spacing, optimal combos, and most importantly unplugging the other guys controller.
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I’ll even put a recent one up for you. First match he gets hit cuz sometimes that happens.Yet not before EX thunder knuckle hit the assist (which in the right situation could have been a happy bday).
Second match she took off half of Akuma’s life before finally getting hit which again…most characters can’t do (especially not meterlessly like Viper).
3rd match Noel went for literal seconds without calling Akuma assist because there was no way to reliably call it without Akuma getting seismoed. He was forced to call Akuma in a spot outside of the range that it could hit Viper and then Viper went in and landed a hit (due to pbeam locking wolvie down and sliding in). Akuma assist doesn’t travel as far as most of the tools she has and definitely not as far as plasma beam.
Most other characters he can kinda find a spot when they have to commit and start going. Once Viper gets one seismo down she can just through a train of them and if you call Akuma during that he will get hit.
As far as assists go…there was plenty of times that plasma beam’s active frames basically worked as a full screen stuff to the start up of tatsu assist. Plasma beam kept the assist off the screen quite a few times on top of what Viper was already doing. Which means Viper didn’t even have to do anything sometimes and the fear of seismo allowed for the fear of plasma beam hitting Akuma and leaving Wolvie assistless for longer.
How is Tatsu beating a lot of moves a unique weakness to viper though? I mean, it shuts down Magnetos disruptor spam too, is Tatsu suddenly the answer to Magneto as well?
What I’m saying is, I don’t see what Tatsu does to Viper uniquely. Why is it so much worse for her and not other characters? Tatsu is a great assist against anyone.
Don’t crouch, lol.
Seriously, thats how people get crossed up.
I’m sorry guys I’ll never speak ill of viper again (as a viper main no less). She obviously has no faults and cannot be defeated. My apologies for my lack in judgement.
Ironman goes even with Vergil?
Strange goes even?
Just HA! Come on.
I’m a point Vergil main, even would be mags and zero.
The whole point of Viper is that she kind of defeats the opponent’s ability to simply call an assist as a means of throwing her off. You can do it but if it gets caught by seismo…seismo can hit very far across the screen and OTG a bunch of times. Killing them off or hurting them severely without spending meter. Laser is basically a full screen assist stopper. Unless your assist becomes active before the laser releases it will take it out also. It’s just she has to commit a lot more with laser when an assist is not covering that it’s better to stick to seismo, focus, assist and EX moves against rush characters.
Strange is top 2.
Yeah one more slip up and we might have to exile you.