2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams

[HyperShieldSlash]

Top 5 point characters
1.Thor
2.Strange
3.Shuma
4.Thor
5.me playing Thor

[Dark_Radiance]

I still don’t think vergil is THAT good unless you are using the roundtrip glitch. With the glitch, I can see him as top 3/5 easy but without it he has lackluster air mobility and mostly thrives off getting braindead hits that people should be better at avoiding. With the glitch though, he is a completely different character in terms of controlling the match. I put vergil in top 3/5 still because the glitch isn’t even very theory oriented. People are just lazy, and it doesn’t help that vergil is the kind of character that often lets you get away with being lazy.

Take a minute to look at it from a different perspective. Vergil without the round trip glitch still has some ob the best space control in the entire game just on his BS normals alone. A lot of the cast just simply can not deal with Vergil’s normals. His sword can completely stop characters – even good one’s – from playing the game to point where they can not risk pushing any buttons vs him or risk getting counter hit. It’s the main reason you see so many players getting caught by his very slow left/right mix up – they have no choice but to default block against him to remain safe. Ideally you’d want to remain in the air, but here’s the problem with that: If Vergil meter, he also shuts that down with his sword super and tracking teleport. There’s no real way to escape Vergil. He can pretty much force anyone to have to play his game and can control every bit of space at all times.

[ThatJollyOlBastid]

[media=youtube]jlJga4niPKU[/media]
Bewarn of the future of the end game.

Round Trip glitch is stupid as FUCK.

[serpentaurus]

[media=youtube]jlJga4niPKU[/media]
Bewarn of the future of the end game.

Round Trip glitch is stupid as FUCK.

unfortunately the most of these combos are not viable, meter negative combos are not reliable.

I get 795k starting with 0 meter and 1030k starting with 0,8 meter assistless/no DHC/no TAC from a mighty hurricane H, -0,4 bar. Naturally, starting with 2 bars is insta TOD for any characters when playing point Thor and the vid does a good job at showing that. I like some of the links mr flubs used there though

[AEON]

So thanks to Xero, Spider-man now has a untechable UWT set up with ironman. On incoming you do a meaty angled proton cannon and then when they are falling you can Dhc into UWT and catch them. So far only hard drive can escape. What this means is that Spiderman can touch you->Tac infinite with Tony and kill off the next two characters with the uwt set up into another tac infinite. What makes this ridiculous is that IIRC, Spidey has that untechable TAC with dash cancels(correct me if I’m wrong). thoughts on tier placement now with this New tech?

I thought the TAC dash canceling gave you the effect of the 2nd TAC with the directional input of the 1st? If this is the case, your opponent still has a 1 in 3 shot of breaking the TAC randomly. That being said, this tech is still incredibly useful because unblockable incoming setups are the future.

[HyperShieldSlash]

Thor has some mighty ass attacks. No wonder he’s a god… dat mighty dunk and mighty spark aand hair ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH4NbO74A1k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[DevilJin_01]

Stinger blows her up. Swords invalidates her entire toolset. She can’t footsie him at all. the only way she should win this match is if you are psychic or the Vergil fucks up. You know a matchup is bad when EX seismo is a bad choice at times. I’ve played that match a ton and if Vergil has meter Viper is helpless even moreso than most characters. Luckily most people are retarded and will still run him second against her. Its her hardest match up by far.

Super jump runaway characters are her hardest match pretty easily but not impossible.

Start of round Vergil is only going to have one meter and its only Vergil’s slow ground normals with heavy recovery that absorb projectiles. She can just focus stinger.

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[Climhazzardous]

Super jump runaway characters are her hardest match pretty easily but not impossible.

Start of round Vergil is only going to have one meter and its only Vergil’s slow ground normals with heavy recovery that absorb projectiles. She can just focus stinger.

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No they are not. Give her strider and those aren’t hard at all. Nothing you give viper assist wise is going to dramatically shift this matchup in her favor. you talk about his slow S.H being the only thing that nulls projectiles. Well guess what, it has 10 frame startup which is plenty fast to stuff seismos. She can win it of course because she’s fucking viper but its easily at least 6.5/3.5 no matter what assist she brings in. Yes you can focus his shit but honestly you can say that about every single character in the game.

[leafcolonel]

I learned to not discuss any matchup regarding Viper in this topic as she always has 5 bars in stock for EX Seismos, gets guranteed unblockables for free on every single character, can react to shield skills and charging stars, and can focus all normals and pokes even if they startup at 6-10f on reaction.

[Climhazzardous]

I learned to not discuss any matchup regarding Viper in this topic as she always has 5 bars in stock for EX Seismos, gets guranteed unblockables for free on every single character, can react to shield skills and charging stars, and can focus all normals and pokes even if they startup at 6-10f on reaction.

Its crazy. I main Viper but I’m not delusional. She loses to Vergil and Zero, the 1/2 in the game. Its nothing to be ashamed over. She barely loses to Zero but Vergil tears her a new asshole

[Rokmode]

Take a minute to look at it from a different perspective. Vergil without the round trip glitch still has some ob the best space control in the entire game just on his BS normals alone. A lot of the cast just simply can not deal with Vergil’s normals. His sword can completely stop characters – even good one’s – from playing the game to point where they can not risk pushing any buttons vs him or risk getting counter hit. It’s the main reason you see so many players getting caught by his very slow left/right mix up – they have no choice but to default block against him to remain safe. Ideally you’d want to remain in the air, but here’s the problem with that: If Vergil meter, he also shuts that down with his sword super and tracking teleport. There’s no real way to escape Vergil. He can pretty much force anyone to have to play his game and can control every bit of space at all times.

There’s only so much that he can do to you in the air. I didn’t say he was bad without the roundtrip glitch. The roundtrip glitch simply makes him a completely different character. It gives him options like morrigan in the sense that he can play a trap-based game while also being able to play the marvel 3 derp teleport game.

[TenguEgg]

Focusing a stinger? Is that even really a thing that people do regularly? I don’t think i’ve ever seen a Viper just randomly start focusing in hopes of reading a stinger ( which is the only way i’d see it happening ) and i’ve never seen a Vergil straight stinger into a focus, I can’t even imagine the situation where it occurs.

I mean I guess you’re probably not going to get punished too hard for FAing full screen but still.

[leafcolonel]

IMO, Vergil beats every single character in this game if he has bar for DT or Spiral Swords depending on the matchup.

When his worst position is anchor and he’s the strongest character at XF3, it tells you how balanced that character actually is.

[prolifik88]

Its crazy. I main Viper but I’m not delusional. She loses to Vergil and Zero, the 1/2 in the game. Its nothing to be ashamed over. She barely loses to Zero but Vergil tears her a new asshole

Viper with Plasma Beam gives me a lot of trouble. I think she does pretty good against Vergil. I rather fight Magneto, Zero, Wolverine, and Nova than fight a good Viper.

[Climhazzardous]

Viper with Plasma Beam gives me a lot of trouble. I think she does pretty good against Vergil. I rather fight Magneto, Zero, Wolverine, and Nova than fight a good Viper.

Thats because you don’t know the matchup. Just do whatever you want to her. Stop playing so scared. Only thing you have to respect is seismos from full screen and Yolo Ex Knuckle/Seismo on wakeup. Seriously its bad. you don’t have to respect her at all. Plasma beam makes it better but only time you are safely calling that is full screen where vergil doesn’t care. the only way you can maintain good pressure is to FADC every seismo since commiting to anything against him is death

[DevilJin_01]

No they are not. Give her strider and those aren’t hard at all. Nothing you give viper assist wise is going to dramatically shift this matchup in her favor. you talk about his slow S.H being the only thing that nulls projectiles. Well guess what, it has 10 frame startup which is plenty fast to stuff seismos. She can win it of course because she’s fucking viper but its easily at least 6.5/3.5 no matter what assist she brings in. Yes you can focus his shit but honestly you can say that about every single character in the game.

Never said anything about dramatic shifts. Just that you’d have to be pretty bad with Viper to lose 3 to 7 to anything but like a 4 or 5 bar Vergil with XF2/3. Once you learn her tools the point matchup is close to even and anything else she can unblockable or guard break him in a corner if the point dies there.

I was basically trying to say the same thing you were about the super jump height stuff. With the right assists they’re not that hard, but are harder than anything any grounded character makes it for her.

Seismos only start up a few frames slower than s.H and she can move, block, jump, focus and do a ton more things inbetween them than Vergil can do during his s.H. Once she gets one seismo out, she can very easily start to gain momentum against a very ground based character that has to commit much more than she does. You don’t really have to react to anything he does after the first seismo if you’re talking straight point game where both are low on meter.

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[HyperShieldSlash]

Viper has ex seismo and Spardan Corridor. Vergil is irrelevant.

[Dark_Radiance]

Thats because you don’t know the matchup. Just do whatever you want to her. Stop playing so scared. Only thing you have to respect is seismos from full screen and Yolo Ex Knuckle/Seismo on wakeup. Seriously its bad. you don’t have to respect her at all. Plasma beam makes it better but only time you are safely calling that is full screen where vergil doesn’t care. the only way you can maintain good pressure is to FADC every seismo since commiting to anything against him is death

If Viper has a beam assist she has options, but if people are playing that shitty Viper/Dante/Strider team, Vergil will run through that shit with no respect. Vergil still has to honor a beam if he’s not in his swords, and Viper can reaction punish his teleport if you bait it with a beam. It’s still not a good of a match up for her, but she has better tools then most characters with a beam at least.

[Climhazzardous]

You’re delusional. thats all there is to it. No way in hell she comes close to being even against vergil. Only thing you can do is hope they are idiots and have Vergil second. Vergil doesn’t have to expend meter to make Vipers life hell. All he has to do is stay within S.H/Stinger range and everything she does is risky as hell. then if you so choose he can throw on swords and literally make her unplayable. If you are telling me you can react to 10 frame normals you are lying. She doesn’t beat him mid or full screen, and only can hold a candle close with EX seismo. Her fast normal is only a frame faster than Vergils and his has 4x the range. Its okay to admit a character beats Viper man…I main her as well and she is easily top 5 but Vergil is better. I don’t see why its so hard to admit that with 99% of viper players. She can mitigate her problems against him with a beam somewhat but if he has one as well the risk/reward is skewed heavily towards vergil

Also Viper/Dante/Strider is rather lackluster in practice. You have to play that team perfect. It has no room for error.

[bloodabeast]

Viper has ex seismo and Spardan Corridor. Vergil is irrelevant.

so stinger cancels and round trip + assist don’t work against that or am i just stupid?