Frank is not a liability because his optimized spots are second and third, where he provide a great assist. Dormammu, Storm and Phoenix are a liability because they have to be played in second and third position but their assists are not good/reliable.
2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams
You managed to miss his point AND ignore many important aspects of the game in the same post. Well done!
Phoenix is a liability. I donāt think sheās very good. Storm is somewhat of a liability too, but thatās why sheās not at the tippy top. Dormammu is a solid character who can hold his own weight without gaining momentum even though it is very helpful. Whatās your point? If person 1 dies, you are left with a bad character. . . just flat out bad. If heās anchor, heās still a liability because very few characters can function to their full potential with just shopping cart and nothing else as well as the fact that frank is a bad anchor in terms of comeback potential. Heās still a liability. Being a liability doesnāt necessarily entail that the character is bad.
Yeah being a liability in this game is not badā¦itās just ānot good/sub parā. Heās that character thatās really easy to make look good on a stream, but if you play in a long set heās eventually going to show cracks just by the nature of his character. Which when you play in a tournamentā¦like Phoenix you either get that train run of good shit (thatās still extremely fightable) or that train run of cracks.
You do realize you can put dorm anywhere on your squad right?
Dark Hole not good/reliable?
what world is this?
Dorm actually works well in any spot. On point, you have a teleport-tridasher hybrid with ridiculous normals and a freaking beam super. Second, you get Stalking Flare DHCās, TAC infinites, and someone who can escape a fair portion of incoming mix-ups. On anchor, you get someone who can deal ludicrous amounts of chip, use meter efficiently, and lame out other anchors.
Like hell he is a liability. Why do you think Champ dropped Phoenix for him?
dark hole is a meh assist. not good at all. Liberation is dorm best assist.
I though champ dropped Dorm for Phoenix cause thats all he has been playing recently. Champ should not happy with either of his teams because both dorm and phoenix are a liability for any point character.
I like this post a lot because it comes from someone who obviously plays and studies the character. You canāt get stuff like that from someone who just watches Frank or Phoenix do good shit on a stream and freaks out. Youāre obviously not as good as Bee and not going to be the guy that proves the theory of him being top 10 and be a hero for the results monsters. Yetā¦you donāt put him on a super pedestal just because 4 Frank is āgdlkā.
4/5 Frank is very powerful and works very quicklyā¦but itās really just the combination of that being attached to shopping cart that is the strongest aspect of him. Itās essentially a weaker version of what Phoenix Wright would have been pre patch. If Phoenix Wright truly did have invincible assistsā¦in theory we probably could have received a gambit character stronger than 4/5 Frank as an assist. That assist would effectively have made every point character really ridiculous. At first we figured doing something like that to a shitty character like PW was fucked upā¦but as of now itās probably one the smartest balancing decisions Capcom did to the game.
Itās just not being able to achieve 4/5 Frank from the start and having the issue of Frank being a character that She Hulk can give a run for their money when not leveled up will always hurt him. He is at best a really powerful mid tier IMO if that makes any sense. Which the mid tiers in this game are very powerful (with the right team structure) and thatās what I like about this game.
Yes, but unless you are willing to do MastaCJ stuff with Disruptor or Bolts (Dorm/Magneto/Doom for example), his best position is arguably in second. He enjoys being able to run around with meter for Stalking Flare and Chaotic Flame punishes. In addition to that, he doesnāt have nearly as strong start of round options as Magneto and his ilk. Thatās probably why FChamp chooses the order of Magneto/Dorm/Doom over the one I suggested before. As for the case with Dorm in third, I personally donāt like it. He doesnāt give you a very good assist in comparison to Hidden Missiles, Jam Session, or Cold Star, and those oodles of chip damage from XF3 Chaotic Flame are easily dealt with by simply using up your own X-Factor. He can stall you out, but at the same time, heās wasting his own X-Factor time. As a ādarkā anchor, heās certainly not as strong as Vergil, Phoenix, and Strider. Heās probably better than Doom and Dante in that regard (as a solo XF3 character), but you donāt really hear anyone say, āOh no, Dark Dorm is coming in.ā Heās not as immediate a threat as the popular ādarkā anchors.
I think the anchor should always have a strong assist to complement the two other characters, which is why I prefer Dante and Doom as anchor over Vergil and Phoenix. Strider gets you the best of both worlds by having both a strong AA assist and insane speed in XF3, but itās probably only the characters with a reliable self-OTG who can make the most use out of the assist. Dorm is a good (but not great) anchor, but like I said, I prefer team synergy over having a derp XF3 character in the back, of which Dorm is somewhere in between. Heās kind of an anomaly. Like Serp mentioned, he is probably best in the 2nd position, but doesnāt really give you a great assist like Missiles, Plasma Beam, or Jam Session. Dark Hole and Liberation are okay, but not really problematic. Purification is just awful. IMO heās like a point character meant to be played in second, which is kind of weird.
Dormammu is not a liability because Dark Hole is aight, and he more than makes up for his meh assists with the other completely unique support options he brings to a team.
K so I finally decided to go to work with point ammy in the lab and holy shit this bitchās pressure is ridiculous. She can keep you in blockstun for a really long time and her normals are big as fuck and her frame traps are really good. What do you guys think of the bitch on point?
I played Zakk Bennett one game online, and he ran her on point with Drones and Dark Hole I believe.
Never again.
Dorm is essentially one of the few characters in the game that is a true MVC2 āUserā character. As in he is in second spot waiting for a point character to battery him up or give him a way to battery up via TACās to blow the screen up with meter. He isnāt providing a great assist like Doom second. Heās just waiting to release his hail via DHC/THC or just falling into the match. A lot of other characters that are second tend to be ones that actually are the battery and build meter. Heās basically a stronger version of Ammy in the second spot as far as his point game once he is out.
They tried to design Storm similarly in MVC3 and thatās why Storm has sub par assists like Dorm also. Itās just Dorm is clearly a cheaper character on point and why Dorm is still a tournament regular character and Storm is basically a 10 more years/character specialist character.
Dorm is not a liability because he is not a liability in his optimal spot. As is everyone else who is not a liability in their optimal spot.
Dorm is definitely best second. His assists are meh, they can do work but theyāre not applicable in alot of situations. He needs that momentum or heās going to get mauled unless you run Disruptor/Bolts/Lariat.
Dormammu is a liability now? Wow. This thread ceases to amaze me everytime I show up to see whats going on.
Okā¦ Dormammu is one of the best second slots in the game. Free. Why?
- He can escape the corner with flight, airdash, teleport, etc. during incomings. He isnāt a sitting duck.
- DHC into Stalking Flare is safe and it makes more damaging combos after a proper DHC.
- Dark Hole is a good combo assist and overall good for incomings.
- Chaotic Flame THC hurts.
- TAC infinites/Combos
- Can run in back with an assist behind him (Doom, Magneto) a hell of alot easier than most of these character
Dormammu is a momentum type of character, yes. But he can easily gain that space with his movement around the screen and anti-airs.
Frank is a mighty fun character, but flawed in many ways. Take it from a guy who has been rocking with Frank since the beginning of the game. Heās a good second character depending on your team composition, but has problems.
Pros
Lvl 4 and 5 Frank is retarded. Pretty easy to get him to that.
Shopping cart is a very good assist
TAC infinite
Cons
Canāt fit on every team.
No way out of the corner on incoming. You gotta either press a button or block. Terrible.
Hard to run it back against a good player.
No safe DHCs
Sub-par damage when he gets the hit.
Terrible mobility
Pretty useless until he levels up to 2 or 3.
Very flawed character. I might be missing more pros and cons because I havenāt played him in a minute, but still, more cons than pros for sure.
Frank teams are tough. You need to think about how you can level it up with and without your point character. My old Frank team was Firebrand/Frank/Ammy. If Firebrand died, I could get a random hit with Frank and then THC and 2 shots which leads to a lvl 4 or 5 Frank. You also gotta think about what happens if Frank dies. Will your point character and new assist help you win? I will always dislike Noelās team because of that. He is such a good player but with such a lacking Frank team. If Frank dies, you got Wolverine with Wesker assist to try to run it back, which isnāt good for Wolverine at all.
Too much thought into a Frank team. Whereas putting Dormammu second is so much less of a hassle than putting Frank second, because you donāt really need to worry about what happens next when your point dies, besides get away from the incoming and do what you do with Dormammu.
So Dormammu > Frank free. Dormammu isnāt a liability whatsoever.
Dorm is a liability because his assists are not good and he is not that great when played on point, he can get mauled from the start (like Dr Strange). At the end of the day point characters packed with two great assists will always be better than characters with 1 assist, thats why Frank as a second/third position character will always be better for point characters than Dorm. Dorm is a great meter user with cheap hypers and that can make up for his lack of cheap assists (outside of charged liberation), but overall, he is more like a backup/secondary plan than a team character, your point character wont get better for playing Dorm second.
Dormās second spot (his optimal spot) is not a liability. Especially when you can choose dark hole (which is not great but decent) or liberation and liberation gives you stalking flare THC and a chance to later on use a GTFO me as an assist. If Dorm falls into the match with meter and an assist periodā¦he is no longer a liability and that can very well happen within a match.
Pretty fucking much. Unless both of the other 2 characters can level up Frank easily itās not super scary IMO. Even with him in the second with 2 that can level him, if the first character dies 1 Frank has to somehow land a hit andā¦yeahā¦
So, is Firebrand/Dorm/Smegma Beam one of those āEndgameā teams? Why or why not?
yall are going in pretty hard on frank. on a proper team with partners to level him up hes a threat, its hard to deny that without crossing that theory/retard line. most of his best friend are no slouches,its not like you need to rock she hulk and iron man to get mileage out of him. so the fact that you need to build around his weakness isnt something thats a problem unique to him.
his lack of incoming options is a problem imo, i think it might worth it to snap frank wack in before he gets leveled because chainsaws are tough to deal with and lv5 frank is top 10 ez maybe top 5ā¦
can zero xf to get a kill on a lv 3 happy bday? just wondering
also shocked to see ātoo much thoughtā as a viable reason to deny a characters worth