I really don’t think Frank is ass at any level. He’s not great at lvl1 but he still has a tiny hitbox, great anti-airs and good limbs. One combo gets him to where he is undoubtedly not a bad character. And I don’t think level 4+ Frank has any losing matchups at all. He murks everybody except maybe Magneto but even then that is an even matchup at worst. Level4+ Frank top 2.
2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams
I know that Frank is good, but other than Kusoru, I’ve never seen a real frank go to work. I think he’s almost as good as Dooooooooooooooooooom though.
…A Frank just got top 4 at SCR…were you asleep all weekend?
Yeah actually, I’ve been sick as hell, and can’t watch streams on my Tabbylet.
Oh…my bad lol. Well, a Frank got Top 4 at SCR.
Did he open people up with j.L?
I don’t know what Frank’s j.L looks like so I couldn’t tell you. If he did, he only did sparingly.
I just don’t know about 4 Frank only going even with Mag at first. He would need jam session or log trap as an assist to get anywhere near that oppressive.
I guess with more tournament footage of him we’ll see but…I just see at least 10 or so characters in theory that once they get started…they don’t let Frank get started. He still doesn’t have the aerial movement of most of the higher tiers either which is still a big issue in specific matchups IMO. I only see him destroying pure melee characters at worst and going even or losing to others that aren’t. You’re already at a disadvantage playing a non projectile emitting character in the meta any way.
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But Frank does emit projectiles- pies and zombies are not bad(zombies ignore low projectiles), has a pretty ghetto zoning game, and has rolls to go through projectiles which make zoning him a problem. His jM hits 1/3rd of the screen and easily converts at superjump height vs super jump height zoning. His slide is great against most zoning. His strongest ability is that anti air super which shuts down a lot of the aerial based zoning. He really is designed with tools to beat most zoning characters once leveled up.
The issue is if your point dies and Frank is 2nd without any level ups you are left with a fairly imo bad character with no really abusable strengths and has bad matchups overall while struggling vs zoning. He’ll never be high tier because of that liability. You can avoid this problem by running Vergil/Dante/Frank or other teams that can hard tag in Frank where you get more chances to level him up with characters stronger than level 1 frank though.
He really is a very scary character though, he’s a walking 1/3rd screen 4 way high/low/left/right mixup with normals that cannot be messed with. He is a fairly complete character with an assist + level 4/5. His teams are more momentum based than most, but if you see Bee’s team I cannot understand how you can’t see him as a threat to most characters.
What is the durability on Franks Forward Fierce. I know it does a ton of damage at higher levels but how does it stack up in a projectilve war and what about those zombies and there durability.
His forward H has 1 point of pie durability
That’s the thing though - if Frank has gotten his levels, he already is started. You don’t get a chance to start anything - on a real Frank team like Apology Man or Bee are running, your point character is going to die, then you have to deal with a Zero-level welcome mixup on your next character. They could very likely get killed by an optimized combo, then you are just back in his mixup again. You can’t guard cancel your way out, he has so many active frames he’s unlikely to mistime his setup, you can’t just pushblock since you have to respect the AA super and his roll will help him stay in anyway, he’ll destroy your assists safely with shopping cart super.
He lacks air movement but he doesn’t need it when he can paddle people pretty much no matter where they are in relation to him. Plus he should really have Dante in the back anyway, so that right there gives Frank the control he needs to stop anybody who thinks they can just fly away from him and try and get their angle and you come down into a low/instant overhead/AA grab mixup where any option leads to a dead character. Also your assists will feel the pain from Frank. No matter how good their hitbox is, lvl4+ Frank’s Ms are better.
He’s almost an X-23 character where it might look like you have a character left but in actuality when they landed their first hit, after that they are in complete control of the match. Your best shot after Frank gets his levels is that the Frank player fucks up catastrophically.
This is all assuming a real Frank team. Again, we gotta stop with this tiering one character stuff. On a Noel Brown team where Frank is out and is playing solo with two mostly worthless assists behind him, well yeah he is going to have bad matchups. He’ll have no resources since he has to spend crazy amounts of meter to get his levels, he can’t force the other guy into predictable patterns since all he has to control the screen is his Ms, he can’t confirm from bottle tosses, so on so forth. That kind of Frank loses to Magneto, Viper and Zero no doubt. But those problem characters are also the ones who most likely were opened up and gave Frank his levels in the first place, so at the same time you take out a possible bad matchup you also get your Frank his juice
Level 1-2 3 points(ass, same as Wesker’s gun)
Level 3 4 points
Level 4-5 5 low points( standard for a fireball, same as soul fist, hadokens, voomerangs, magnetic blasts etc).
The guide says the QCB zombies go through projectiles, the charge zombies eat 1 projectile up. Someone who plays Frank should elaborate.
Frankgigas is undoubtedly top 10 if he can survive long enough to shake-off Slow Start.
But in a metagame where most point characters have base 110 speed/attack or higher it’s pretty hard for him to get setup.
But then again most people pair Frankgigas with a partner who can use skill swap and unleash the full power of Frankgigas on turn one.
However, if the opponent lands a supereffective move on Frankgigas’ partner and KO’s them before they can use skill swap then Frankgigas is pretty much screwed.
So I gotta place Frankgigas Borderline A/B+.
That post is the greatest thing in the history of SRK. As I read that post, I came buckets.
Yeah I’ve been meaning to ask Chrisis what he thinks of it all. Although it’ll most likely come down to the same thing of having to actually do something good with your point character to get him to activate. The same thing that holds most people back from Phoenix also despite the potential.
There was already a whole thread on the strength of transformation characters any way. Even if you want to go into team strength I don’t really see anything about a 4 Frank set up team that’s cheaper than ZMC, Dante May Strider, Viper/Doom/Ammy etc. Those teams also come with second characters that are completely better than 1 Frank if their first dies. If anything still less cheap.
In general this is Marvel 3 and you don’t need anything really high tier to kill a team off. As important as it is to have cheap characters to optimize neutral and what not…an ok to decent team at best can still destroy the most theory of teams in seconds. Just simply due to how strong everything is.
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Coming from Smogon I sympathize with whoever does not understand this at all.
[SPOILER=What the fuck this means]
K so Regigigas (A pokemon) has an ability called Slow Start that takes off his attack and speed for the first few rounds of the game. Once these rounds are done he turns in to Uber, an equivalent to God Tier or Broken tier. He just compared him to Regigigas because Frank needs to get a hit to get to levels 4-5. Skill swap is a move that trades abilities.
[/quote]
pokemon is random
I don’t think level 4-5 Frank is that far from Zero/Vergil’s level, and he’s probably at the same strength at that level(only because of their install supers, nothing else). He just doesn’t come with those levels powered up.
What Temps is saying is completely true though, and an optimal Frank team(which will involve Vergil since you are not sacrificing damage for level ups) is just as cheap as the teams you mentioned above not to mention Frank having a much more simple and oppressive gameplan. I don’t think Vergil/Frank/Dante or Vergil/Dante/Frank is that far off from Zero May Cry. He’s a far easier character to play and set up with too. Vergil, Dante, Frank is a really cheap team and is highly optimized with very few problem matchups.
Frank is a cool dude, but he still has bad match-ups against anyone who can lame him out properly. (Joe and Morrigan are probably his worst match-ups, with Magneto being an honorable mention
The only characters with truly no bad match-ups are Magneto, Dante, and Taskmaster. For those 3, they just don’t dominate quite as hard in some match-ups as most of the characters above them. On an optimal team with 2-4 bars (THEORYLAND), Viper and Vergil’s worst match-ups are even.