I think that counterhit state is just for some of the rushdown characters that also have command throws, like Yun. And not for the grapplers. But I could be wrong.
At least I’ll get to use my swag counterhit combos finally. The general pattern here is Gief get’s fucked, next patch Gief is good, next patch get fucked, so it’s 50-50 at this point let’s see what happens.
Does anybody know when the final changes get locked in or whatever?
Gief has been bad since Super, so I dont understand that pattern.
I spoke with Dawgtanian, he said hed pass on the feedback to Combofiend. But I REALLY got the impression that they are satisfied with this new Gief, and I also got the impression though vaguely, that the feedback made by Snakeeyez on that loc test supported their decicion.
Im gonna add one thing, if we are -2 after LPGH on Hit, that means that the opponents THROW, beats ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING we do except for U1. So saying that we have no OKI isnt and overstatement. We have Zero Oki, if this version of gief hits the markets. But we arent rewarded with new pokes like c.hp and s.rh and s.hp and more dmg on pokes and lights and greenhand. What are they smoking ???
Gief has been the most nerfed character since vanilla imo so I don’t know what you’re saying bitbna1. Combofiend is anti grappler period.
I know, I’ve been predicting that for a long time, due to infinite meterless o/s GH. To be fair we got some really shitty options after the -2, crouch block, throw tech, back dash, jump, Ultra 1. With back dash and Ultra 1 being high risk.
If they make Atomic Suplex grab in 1 frame, that would cover you for when you don’t have Ultra. But you can’t throw too many out, as each one has a 300+ penalty.
If they throw, you could do an unthrowable SPD, using your 6 pre-jump frames to grab. Works against fellow grapplers, Abel’s throws and Abel’s Ultra 2 if timed or should I say guessed right. In Ultra SF4, Buffer the D, DB, B motion while in the LPGH animation, and make sure BU, U, UF is inputted during the first frame you regain control. In theory, a 6 frame pre-jump KKK Lariat would also work, to allow you to evade the throw and hit them. This would be more safe, if they back dash or jump and you don’t end up in 50 frames of recovery.
For the opponent, one of their best options that gives us a nightmare, is their 3 frame normal. You can only punish it by committing to either Ultra 1 or EX SPD but you have to commit and bet the farm. The -2 creates a kamizaki setup where Zangief will be mathematically at risk, and thereby an unfavorable position. Block will be the most viable option, followed by a lousy back dash, then the invincible command throw at the bottom.
I meant in the overall changes for Ultra over time. At first everyone thought he’d be godlike, then he was dead, then he was good with new lp gh, then he’s awful because they nerfed it or something. Doesn’t really matter to me, I like what I’m reading so I’m ready for the game.
Niiice. Did you guys see? They increased the range to 1.70, Now Gief is ALMOST good. They NEED to do two more things.
Revert s.mp nerf.
Increase range on s.mk.
*Revert s.lk Nerf
*And make Light Glove(or preferably Medium glove) 0 or +1 on Hit.
Marked with * are absolutely neccesary for him to be a good character.
Yeah, the LP SPD buff is definetly welcome, give us st.MP and st.LK back and make LP GH be 0 on hit and we’ll be cool.
Indeed, we are so close.
not gonna happen
next build they will make spd 1.55 ,lpgh -3 and lariat nerf to be like SFxT 
Talking seriously, is there any use to the close LK buff? it sounds like the dumbest buff since that normal is a punishment for pressing the button in a wrong range.
Lol, that might be the most pointless change ever. If they really knew what they were doing they would now that move is completely useless but they’re completely clueless when it comes to Gief. Why do they feel the need to destroy his footsies and nerf his best pokes? And what nerf jumping hp? Just garbage.
Close LK its better to have it cancleable than not, but yeah. Quite pointless 
according to this list, spd ranged is now 1.7 instead of 1.6 and close lk is now canceable now :o
for the l m and h banishing flat, does that mean now its punishable after using it?
That’s good. There’s no reason why LP SPD’s range should be shorter than it was in vanilla.
Close LK being cancellable may mean one thing! A hit confirm into PPP or KKK Lariat (Although they have to be standing)
So if you land a jump in to punish a fireball, you get your knockdown WITHOUT EXGH. And then you get your cross-up.
With EXGH being 16 frame startup, KKK lariat linked/juggled into EXGH won’t be possible. But it could still mean LPGH juggles into EXGH, may still be possible. Say if you want to move a blocked MP/HP Tiger Uppercut or Shoryuken to the corner.
If they make close LK 3 frame startup, instead of the better cr.lk - that would be sweet. As then you could combo crouching MP’s +3 on hit, forcing them to stand, into close lk xx KKK Lariat. As making crouching mp into +4 is just too bad ass, opens up too many doors, into cr.lp, cr.lk. lp. lk, far mp, both lariats.
@evansgambit why is sc.lk better to go to lariat than say c.lp after a jumpin, or sc.lp? or just directly into sweep/KKK lariat?
good point. very valid. I AM WRONG on this one!!!
I was just wondering why close lk is cancellable.
come to think of it, close lk doesn’t give any advantages over the other pokes - close lp, cr.lp or cr.lk
If you can cancell into Lariat from the first frame, you get this much advantage on hit from each of the pokes:
close lp: +14 frames
close lk: +13 frames
cr.lp: +13 frames
cr.lk +13 frames
No. I really don’t know why they did that. What their reasoning is. It’s definitely a buff, but don’t know what it means.
Maybe if you screw up the sf.MP into sf.LK distance? But that still wouldn’t always work…
I think you’d get close mp if you are in that range.