@evansgambit You are right sir, dont know what went through my head right there 
They changed something though, as you say it might be to catch fireballs, and it might not 
the total frames are the same from when the move starts up, so GH to spd will be about the same to react to, as you react from when the move first begins.
Thats interesting. Hopefully capcom does something right to Zangief before the final build. They actually donāt have anytime left.
Wait, so does +2 frames of recovery mean itās not safe on hit anymore?
Does capcom mean +2 frames of recovery ontop of it already being ~2? only difference is the green hands hitbox activates faster now and your at ~4 on hit. So a easier execution buff in exchange for a frame advantage nerf.
Iām not sure what else they could mean, but that just canāt possibly be right. So heād have an EX GH that he pretty much canāt combo, and a normal GH thatās useless in combos because itās -4 on hit.
Iām just not understanding the logic. They made EX GH knock down again but took away itās comboability so that it could still be good for going against projectiles but not be too strong in footsies. The compensation was a normal GH thatās safe on hit. I would think that decreased startup only helps in negating projectiles, but he has EX GH for that so why does normal GH need to be better at the same thing, and at cost of the move becoming useless otherwise?
Really hope that info is wrong or mistranslated or something.
With no combo ender in footsies coupled with delayed wakeup Zangief would suck. Canāt think that a non comboable exgh especially with delayed wakeup makes up for anything.
So Zangiefās current build is basically all of his fierce and roundhouse attacks suck in footsies so canāt utilize those, if you land st lk xx lpgh everyone in the entire game can throw you right aftrrwards, canāt walkup spd because iām sure the range is like thawks lp spd.
So now what Gief is reduced to is landing a random sweep and gambling for a hp spd whilst shoto characters still get to mash dp into backdash. Canāt really poke with st strong because without even testing it im 100% sure cr strong from a shoto counter hits it all day. Good job getting in on your opponent now you can probably red focus the opponent but wait that sucks too! Too bad that wont work because they can probably duck under it anyway depending on what character youāre fighting against
Landing random sweeps was what Gief did in st but his sweep was gdlk in ST. He could combo into it from cr. jab or st short. His green hand actually absorbed fireballs and he could spd after it. So if thats the direction they are trying to go then Capcom is defenitly gimping Zangief.
Hmmm, itās interesting.
A move comprises in total: startup+active+recovery.
There is no mention of tweaking with the block/hit stun.
It could well be, that the +2 on recovery is compensated for with an increase in hit stun by +2. (Yet, this is not mentioned) Which gets us back to -2 on hit.
But if the reverse was true, and hit stun was not compensated. We are back at square one, with a LPGH that is similar to AE but 1 frame better, with 2 frames faster to get the banish glove on-screen. But that would ALMOST definitely mean that EXGH combos from the lights, OTHERWISE YOU HAVE NOTHING!!!
Against projectiles GH and EXGH have very defined functions. EXGH is the āREACTIONARYā counter that completely owns and shuts down projectiles within range. Whereas regular GH is, and will always be a PREDICTIVE counter - a mere lottery ticket, against projectiles.
GH is itself hard to balance, it can easily become too good. If you could somewhat reliably regular banish every single projectile, then what? Heāll be able to get close enough to ring the doorbell each and every time.
Come to think of, making regular GH, a mobility vehicle, like a Soviet made SUV, is the safest way for Capcom to go. Doesnāt need to be safe on hit, doesnāt need to banish projectiles. Just needs to get from A to B, in a quicker time frame, with the ability to destroy back dashes of course.
yeah it would be stupid not to compensate the hitstun
but then again is capcom
Itās funny how capcom does things like +1 frame recovery or +1 frame invincibility on moves. On the whole, it would seem insignificant, as its just ONE frame. But we donāt have enough knowledge to understand the change. Often when I see something like that, itās gotta be a match-up specific tweak.
In this case, I wonder if this change was to:
a) Cover all back dash escapes, with a faster GH.
b) Make whiff punishing of the GH 2 frames better for the opponent.
and maybe mp gh more viable from far lk?
I doubt that. Isnāt MP GH still -3 or worse on hit?
i meant the -2f to start up tho
Well, letās have a look.
Currently in AE, frame date for the regular greenhands is as follows:
LPGH is [11-2-21]
MPGH is [13-2-22]
HPGH is [16-2-23]
If we take into proposed 2 frame reduction from the initial location tests, this is what it looks like:
LPGH is [9-2-21]
MPGH is [11-2-22]
HPGH is [14-2-23]
If we shuffle the 2 frames around, as per the later location tests, this is what it looks like:
LPGH is [7-2-23]
MPGH is [9-2-24]
HPGH is [12-2-25] - Now comboable from the lights, if what I think is true.
*Note: I am not sure if this is indeed what theyāve done.
Obviously projectile banishing will be a bit more reliable, however Iāve always viewed back dash punish as the #1 purpose of GH, after transportation.
This will probably ensure that Zangief can knockdown all back dashes whilst they are airborne using HPGH. While he could already do that with the MPGH.
But if LPGH is a 7 frame startup, you can abuse some kind of meaty light attack into a whiff option select LPGH to cover both back dashes and jumps WHILE they are still airborne. Note: You couldnāt do this currently, as you will hit while their back dash returns to the ground . But if LPGH remains -2 on hit or better, that means you could also hit them later their in back dash ground recovery frames.
Itās also interesting why they made EXGH a hard knockdown. I think they rightly figured, you wouldnāt land it often.
I just heard something about command grabs being in a counter hit state through itās start up and recovery
Zangief is more or less dead now.
Meaning what, exactly?
Basically means if you whiff a command grab and someone punishes the recovery, they either get more damage on you (from counter hit) or if they backdashed your command grab like cody for example he gets to do cr fp into ex bad stone into ultra2 because of the auto counter hit. And iām prerry sure other character have stuff like that too. For example if T hawk or any other character whiffed a command throw infront of you, you could st rh st lk exgh or whatever gh will be the safest. You probably wont be getting fierce spd after a whiffed command grab against anyone anway. It wouldnāt matter what distance their command grab whiffed at from anywhere close up because the st rh moves zangief forward and youāre guranteed to get the counter hit.
Itās definetly bad for grapplers but in my head doing this to a command grab is the exact same thing as leaving a character who just tossed a fireball or just landed from a dragon punch in a counter hit state, which leads me to believe that most players must hate command grabs.
I guess it will be easier to stun Seth, i forgot how much stun a counter hit headbutt does.
Not trying to sound like iām whining but damn man Gief needs buffs
Counter hit on SPD startup, that I would pay.
But counter hit on SPD recovery, is like counter hit on a pokeās recovery during whiff punishing. Makes utterly no sense.
And then should we extend that to counter hit on regular throws?
I hate to imagine the counter hit on whiffing the Atomic Suplex AKA running bear grab!!!
Why donāt they just delete Gief from the game since theyāre doing everything in their power to make him totally irrelevant in Ultra.