whoa… that ps3 matchmaking sounds stupid as hell… i thought that it was all the way LIVE handles it… everyone in a room that contains perhpas a million players and matchmaking happens from there…
hmmm
well, cant wait fpr dat ggpo to be in full effect.
mike, what is the difference between patched ggpo and current ggpo in laymens terms? if there are laymens terms adequate enough to convey the point…
Current GGPO considers itself “behind” the other player when your network lag is above 8 frames (133 ping) even with a lag spike, so it slows the game down above that as it tries to “catch up”. What this means in practice is that even though it’s GGPO and is able to do rollbacks, you generally get slowdown instead of rollbacks since the lag range for a rollback rather than slowdown is very small.
Patched GGPO considers itself “behind” when the lag is above 14 frames (233 ping) and can handle lag spikes because of the larger buffer, so it doesn’t slow the game down unless the ping is really ridiculous for a while. What this means in practice is that lag causes rollbacks rather than slowdown, the way GGPO is supposed to work. We tested CA to NY, with one person on wireless even, and it was just like offline…except when someone went on Facebook. :^)
I hope huge information about the PC port, we dont know almost nothing about this since five months and I think is very important to the team because even if the community on PC is small, its the main way to get money again for support and the future of the game.
That is an awesome reply!
I suppose that was the game chibi was talking about. This is good news, but i have one other question:
The 2 guys that i play with out here, we generally have between 65 ping and 95 ping… But our matches are really laggy most of the time… We are all on wireless unfortunately. But it seems that with the answer you gave that our matches will not be affected since we never played at +133 ping anyways… Is that true or am i reading you wrong?
I just want 1-2 frame input delay at the games current speed… 2-3 frames is also acceptable at offline speeds, though not as good cause certain left/rights become unblockable on reaction.
Generally what happens in our games is we start and the ping time says… Oh say 89 ping… We play, and the game is much slower than offline though the input lag feels like 3-4 frames… Very playable, but dropped inputs and whatnot happen aplenty… Still its good enough to learn on.
My q is will the online get better for people that are playing below 100 ping but still getting weird games?
Feel free not to anser that, im just asking cause i can… Patch will be where we all see how this plays out.
My real hopes include completed or near completed dlc characters…
Of course at the end of the day, if I keep hoping for the near impossible (atm) I’ll end up like this [media=youtube]8h8bQC7j63E[/media]
Lag in online play is not really related to just ping, it’s consistency of the connection. That’s why wireless makes it worse, because you get bursts of transmission then wait times. Ping is simply an easy indicator of the likely connection quality. The patch should help EVERYONE’s experience.
tl;dr if you play fighting games on wireless you’re an idiot.
Or you have one connection in a rental property that happens to be in the master bedroom where your wife and you sleep, thusly in order to play wired youd need to have the wife sleep on the couch or in the childs room…
OR get a more understanding wife who doesnt mind the tappity tap of your fighting games or wire it from your room down to the living room over a winding staircase and down a hall and hope your landlord doesnt mind the staples in his concrete.
OR
you could just play on wireless…
Seriously not everyone has the wired option… If i were on wired i basically could never play sg or other games for that matter while my wife is sleeping Which is my favorite time to play.
When we buy our own home things will be different, but for now i have to make the best of a non optimal situation, which is something that alot of people have to do.
It doesnt make us idiots.
Or you could buy a powerline networking adapter.
http://www.rocketfishproducts.com/products/gaming-accessories/rf-guv1124.html
There’s no excuse for playing wireless.
Yes, ive looked into those, no they arent a perfect solution, they are better when a house has a generally newer wired infrastructure… Ie newer buildings… Which funnily enough wouldnt have the problems that older places have meaning that those adapters wouldnt be needed.
In older buildings though they are constricted to how good the wired structure of the house is… In laymens terms as it was described to me long ago when i was looking for alternative ways to get shit done by those more in the know than i.
Though yes, it is something i was going to look into after the patch if the patch doesnt fully address the problems to my satisfaction.
All my other games play fine online… Cause they are all fps/arena games.
Yep! Because games can fake a lot more when there’s a bullet in between me and you. As long as my game thinks you’re in the kitchen and I shoot at you in the kitchen, your game could think you were in the bathroom and it wouldn’t matter. Once there’s no requirement for good melee, the acceptable ping range and lag spike range increases dramatically. (Protip: In FPSs, even melee attacks are generally handled by an invisible collision volume that fakes a bullet.)
Even if gameplay on wireless is fine for YOU it’s making it worse for your opponent in ways you don’t experience, because during times when your side is downloading packets from them fine, it’s stifling your upload and making it bad for your opponent.
You can defend your choice by saying there are extenuating circumstances, which may be true, but you’re still choosing the lesser of two evils (play badly vs don’t play) which ain’t great. If there’s no other solution, why not a 50ft Ethernet cable for $6, or a 100ft cable for $11? (^.^) Any way you slice it, choosing wireless means you’re deciding to have the worst possible experience yourself and give the worst possible experience to your opponent. Defending it seems…well… :^)
I think we should to an internet spirit bomb.
“Routers of the Earth! Give Dime_x’s connection STRENGTH!”
The longer ethernet cable or the network adapter are the best solutions… However they are still lesser of 2 evil solutions when it comes to lifestyle or gaming ability (dont ask)…
Also like i said, i havent ruled out a network adapter thingamwhatsit… Its just that i honestly dont think it would matter much and heres why:
I have played my entire xbox and xbox 360 life on WIRED with the exception of when i moves her to australia about 14 months ago. The 360 was hooked up in cali, to 25 mb down and 1.5 up… Shit was still laggy as hell in sf4 AND fps games. I also sometimes played WIRELESSLY from the same xbox… Shit made no huge difference whatsoever. Still laggy, and no more noticeably than when wired except that some people that i had somewhat ok connections to wired were shit wireless… So basically i had fewer people i had “decent” connections to.
Notice that switching from wireless to wired didnt improve my top line gameplay though…it stayed exactly the same.
So now here i am years later and im hearing that its all gonna be good if i just go wired, when ive already been wired for a LOOOOONG time… Im inclined to be skeptical.
Not only that but i tested my wireless at the router and its about 15 mb down here whereas near the xbox its 12 mb… A drop of 3 mb isnt going to kill a connection.
Having said all that i do think i will buy one of those long cables and run it to my xbox… But im 99%sure it wont help out my top end performance, it eill just make the connections more stable, even though they are decently stable already…
The input lag and game speed are what im worried about and i dont think switching from wireless to wired will help out that much, cause ive already done that in the past with few differences.
Anywho yeah, ill probably go and pick up one of those 50 foot cords… My wife will kick and scream about an ugly cord on the floor… But meh.
Though yeah it isnt likely to do a lick of good.
Half your performance depends on your opponent’s hookup, and it’s a lot more about stability and average-case than top speed. Wireless IS worse, empirically, than wired, moreso for fighting games because they are much less tolerant of lag spikes or intermittent packet delays. How much worse it is can vary because of the amount of external interference (like vacuum cleaners or other wireless networks), time of day, etc. However, if you have a crappy ISP or a connection that backs up packets a lot (like it seems you did in Cali) then you can’t improve it past that. Speed up and down aren’t the metrics to use, however, they just happen to be the numbers that are easily available. More important are things like packet loss and especially jitter (variation in ping) - try a test like www.pingtest.net that tells you those metrics and see if they’re worse when you’re wireless.
As far as the cord goes, you might consider only plugging it in when you want to play games with it, that was helpful for me. :^)
So, ummm, I have my PC plugged into router via ethernet cable. Am I good? =O
If and when PC version gets released, I will test it out with you, comrade!
Edit: Also, broke down and made Sweaterbee my avatar. Thanks AlxReaper XD
well, i’m not against it but unless you’re living on the coast of Pacific Ocean it would be reeealy distant connection @_@
Looks like you sorta answered the question I signed on to ask about. Upload/Download speed is not the supreme law, ping is not exactly the solution to our problems either so we are left with “consistency”. I am going to go ahead and assume that the overall “consistency” of our internet connections has improved a lot over time and continues to do so even now, right? Would it be possible for lowered and “consistency” to provide an even higher quality online experience across oceans? Keep in mind that I’m not one of those black and white FGC guys who call any netcode the devil due to two frames of lag. I’m aware that even the highest quality netcode will only take us so far and I’m pretty impressed by what we have now.
tl;dr verion…
Would it be possible for us to someday see fighting game netcode improve so much that we could have online fights with people from across the world that rival 60 ping fights on ggpo?
Just think about the physics of it, the best thing we can really do is transfer signal through light, hence fiber optics. To get the best possible connection, you would need a straight glass tube between you and your opponent. As in, through the Earth. We don’t even have fiber optics here for our broadband connections yet, so I think that is a LOONNNG way off.
Bought the cord and am now wired! Hopefully it makes a difference, dont know yet cause nobody is online.
Hey a quick gameplay question about painwheel:
Is it known that painwheel cant summon assists during normals startup during flight? Its pretty annoying, and the same thing happens if painwheel does a flying normal that is up or up forward…
With decent timing the normal doesnt come out… So pw has to wait… This is totally unlike the buffered timings that are present when she does her flight into immediate f or b or df or db versions.
Anywho just wanted to know if its done on purpose for balance reasons as it mostly seems to get in the way of alot of things.
Its no biggie though… But would be cool if it wasnt like that, though i know patch has already been submitted.
-edit… Dont know why the assist doesnt come out… But found out why normals dont come out:
The buffer isnt being cleared when going into flight so flight then a very quick second kick input will cancel into flight again… Is this fixed in the patch cause ive had problems with this since day… Er 3
Whoa! You’re pretty fast =O