LOL, that’d be interesting for sure. I’m not sure I can save state at just the right moment and resume the combo. It might be like trying to continue a combo from a pause.
Edit: I also gotta say I have no idea where anything goes in this forum anymore, aside from media.
Dime_X with the ratio 3 post…
>_>
I don’t know shit about fuck in this discussion but please use solo-duo-trio terminology in the future. We should avoid confusion.
No, THEY’RE NOT.
Unless IPS triggered before the super, there are NO supers that will randomly cause an IPS trigger in between.
You mean to tell me that in the heat of the moment in a match, in the hypest moment you can imagine, it’s somehow easier to time 20 seconds in your head than keep track of which of 6 buttons you’ve pressed?
And MY argument is weak?
Of course you don’t. You wrote a three-page essay to try to dissuade from the point that a timer has plenty of drawbacks.
A timer is a bad idea, however “elegant” you claim it to be.
I’ve been playing Filia for over a month. Peacock for nearly five months.
Any other random arguments as to why I may be stating your solution is bad? Honestly, you say you don’t want to be condescending, but re-read your post.
I don’t like the timer because it’s stupidly arbitrary. Whereas the engine and execution within the limits of the engine is the NORMAL way of doing things, I also have to limit myself to limit my combos to 20 seconds. Not that I care, I do resets every like 7 seconds so the last combo doesn’t last 20 seconds anyways.
My argument is this: a timer is yet another arbitrary limitation imposed on the player to forcibly shorten combos. That is far from “elegant”, even if it does its job.
It’s not about Fortune not being affected, it’s about ME having to further contrain myself to an arbitrary time limit no matter who I’m playing as. If I wanted combos to be escapable arbitrarily after a certain period of time I’d play Marvel 3 (HSD is greater the more time spent in the combo as well as the number of hits).
Right now, this is what I have to go through:
Add a timer to that? I’d rather add “one restand” because it’s easier to remember on the fly. I can’t exactly start timing 20 seconds in my head from a random hit confirm (especially since 20 in-game seconds are not the same as 20 real seconds so the on-screen timer isn’t much help), but I CAN keep track of a restand.
WHY ARE WE EVEN ARGUING ABOUT THIS? IT’S NOT LIKE IT’S EVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
sigh
edit: Bolded and underlined for emphasis.
Because Nadia players have a tendency to lose their heads.
Personally (re-read that fifteen times over please): I don’t like the long combos. Even with the fact that they take three meters to really kill someone and all that I dislike them. Very badly even. That’s just my personal preference with fighting games in general mind you, and not a fault I can readily attribute to this game. I applaud anyone who puts the time into learning them (except Pali) and I acknowledge that this game makes it easier than ever do such a thing, but it does nothing for me when I actually play the game. Period. Actually the one thing it does is make me bust my ass to not to be touched in the first place, which is my personal style of play anyway. Still love the ever fucking hell out of this game, shit like that won’t keep me from playing it.
Speaking of long combos… I was experimenting with how many times I could switch sides in one combo (I like to challenge myself sometimes). In the end I could only get to six side-switches, but the result ended up clocking in at around a minute and fifteen seconds of combo goodness (going coast-to-coast twice!). I plan to tack the it on to the end of this Val/Fil/Dub basics video I’m working on.
BTW: It’d be awesome if some Double players could PM me with easy and simple Dub tricks and mix-ups I can put in my video. She’s easily the weak point of my team because I never practice with her. I only put her in my team as a placeholder until I could bump her off for a DLC character. The fact that I haven’t gone to the lab with her until now is proof of my unwavering faith that DLC characters will come someday. Also my laziness.
After quickly reading the last couple of pages (and it making me bother to make a SRK account after 5 years), I humbly request Dime X play a ft10 set of Calamity Trigger with me.
Haha… What up man? What i do? I know my shit is hella unpopular but that is no reason to call me out into a game i dont play and set the wolves on me…i humbly have absolutely no problem admitting that anyone that knows more than a 3 hit combo in bb would body me free… I havent “tried” to seriously play that game since the first installment when i would have sworn that tager bodied arakune 9-1 (yes, im terrible at bb)
Anywho, i dint have it on ps3 anyways though i do have extend for 360 (dabbled with valk in tmode for 2days… Seems like a fun character)
Er, yeah this is off topic in this thread… But its all good if you want to challenge me in the psn matchmaking thread in this forum or… You can also just request it in my psn inbox 
I hope that challenge wasnt a malice filled one, but if perchance it was, im like totally free, you win.
CT has time-based limitations on combos, yo.
Oh yeah i heard about that on that esports stream mike was on… Im over the timer argument… Its a “your loss” kinda thing in my eyes.
I will say this about what i know of cts timer: its variable… Thats all i need ro know about it being a trash implementation of the timer i propose which is static. Streetfighter and sg are both 6 button games… What they do with those 6 buttons as well as the combination of character interaction and bla bla makes the games completely different. I kinda liken it to what mike said about the guard break system on that almost esports podcast… Its how things are implemented that make them bad or good… As well as what game they are in… A 30 real second long timer in sf4 wouldnt change sf4 at all except in combo vids. It would virtually be the exact same game at high level. So a timer wouldnt actually affect that game harshly at all. Now… I would go on to explain why that wouldnt be bad… But that would be me arguing timer based shit again… And i aint going there.
Everything is in the numbers and implementation imho… Well most things are anyways… BBCT’s timer numbers are completely different from what i propose so a study i pof its combo system wouldnt tell me much as refers to what i had posited for sg.
Anywho that is for really real im serious this time the last thing i have to say about the timer.
I’m just happy no one is suggesting “MAXIMUM DAMAGE”…
That would be a less stupidly forced suggestion than the combo timer
too much reading. my eyes hurt.
Long, damaging combos are strong. And under normal circumstances, they aren’t so bad. But in a reset heavy game where everything can lead to a reset (Cerebella, literally every ground normal), and even more with weird assists that do weird things, it can put a great mental strain on the defender. Not only does the defender have to sit there for a 40-50 second combo, they have to look out for and be ready to instantly block the other way or stand grab everytime anything happens the whole time. That’s an advantage outside of damage, meter, corner carry, and red health recovery mid combo (after you dhc). When you think about it, its kinda like playing a high speed game of simon says, with the attacker dictating how the defender has to act to keep safe, and fliping the whole script whenever they feel like it. I haven’t played a game quite like skullgirls in that regard.
It’s just really strong is all.
Just about as strong as all the other options presented in the game. Certain ones standing out more depending on the player’s style.
Nothing like a great player to make you feel like something is a little too good.
That’s still better than what I think will happen in the future, which is that you either pick a solo or you can kiss your character goodbye the moment you get opened up. Kinda like the way UMVC3 evolved.
So I may be a bit naive here, and extremely long-winded, but doesn’t the fact that Pali’s combo utilized a full team + 5 meters mean anyway? People are expressing their fears that Skullgirls might become a combo-heavy ToD-fest ala UMvC3, but the “problem” with UMvC3 is that quest for damage efficiency lead to lopsided tiers and scummy tech. When Capcom pitched Marvel 3 to us, it was a game where killing a character in a single combo required an expenditure of resources of equal value to the life of the character you wanted to take out. I.e. “if you want to kill Wesker, you’ll need at least 3-4 meters”. Wesker’s life in that (extremely rough) example equals about 3.5 super meters.
Then the DHC glitch was discovered which threw all of that under the bus and the game was no longer “honest”. Now in UMvC3, the entire game is dominated by efficiency, but that efficiency has made it kind of janky. TAC infinites are efficient. Lightning loops are efficient. Sword shenanigans are efficient.Not wearing sunglasses is efficient. So that’s how you win in Marvel 3. The resource-to-result ratio is busted for certain characters and teams.
In KOF, ToDs are an integral part of the game to the point where everyone has their own anchor specifically for that purpose, with their ToD combos at the ready. KOF is considered “honest”, because the resources required to get those ToDs feels right. No one is going to throw out a ToD randomly at the beginning or usually even in the middle of a match, because they aren’t going to have the resources to support that combo unless something drastic happened at some point. No one says KOF is a “about long combos”, even though they’re extremely important.
That being said, Skullgirls is even more strict than KOF in terms of resources vs results. Using three characters, a full round of DHCs, and 5 super meters, Pali was able to do an extremely stylish combo that couldn’t actually kill a solo character. Given what we know about the systems in place, like how meter gain works for both attackers and defenders (Mike pretty much gained full meter from that combo), I don’t really see a problem here. It’s nothing like Marvel because Marvel allows and rewards high, inexpensive damage. Skullgirls allows and rewards moderate, expensive damage.
In doing that combo, Pali gave Mike enough resources to destroy his team many times over (5 bars + solo character damage is pretty serious). It’s almost like Pali paid Mike to do that combo. Not only was that all a perfect example of Skullgirls’ systems working as intended, it was just fair, honest gameplay.
For those claiming that the combo is just too long, I don’t think that’s reasonable. It’s like buying some legos, then complaining when someone builds a life-sized lego replica of Darth Vader. Legos were created with full knowledge that someone would be crazy enough to do that People who buy legos should be fully aware that their legos can do that, and that lego-crazy people exist in the world. It might make you feel bad that those people are better at Lego’ing than you, and maybe you’re tired or seeing those people do what they do, but that’s an unavoidable part of what I consider a sandbox mechanic, which is what Skullgirls’ combo system ultimately is. A combo sandbox. Just as intended.
I feel that something like a static time cap on combos is the kind of solution that you base a title release around, rather than attempt to patch in. Not because it is complicated, but because it is a fundamental change to how players need to think about playing the game when creating ideal combos.
I think the near-unilateral rejection of dime’s idea reflects that: there are expectations around how combos should be performed and what should restrict them, and they are largely driven by how IPS at the baseline ‘works’ - “don’t do the same move twice, with a few caveats so you have some extra freedom”. The changes to it so far have largely been altering and removing these caveats so that the primary system can step in earlier. By comparison, dime’s answer is not related to the existing system; it’s a new restriction independent of IPS, and adopting it essentially means that as-is, IPS alone is not capable of doing the job properly.
It was mentioned earlier, but restricting via time also limits the freedom of performing combos differently. It creates a system where timing has even more emphasis on successfully performing something optimal and increases the value of single-hit high damage normals further. Moves that you had a lengthy amount of time to confirm earlier now penalize you for taking advantage of that time(if your goal is optimal damage), and you must keep all input windows as short as you possibly can(if your goal is optimal damage). It means that if optimal damage combos are what people are going for, they run the risk of ‘dropping’ the combo at any given point without being aware of it until the end, unless they are counting frames. (Imagine a HSD system determining the proration of hits by the the timestamp of each one…) I think that ultimately makes going for optimal damage several degrees more frustrating than it is now and further narrows the window of who can attain it, or who would be even interested in attaining it.
Maybe a system like that has its own merits, but I think it’s just too different from what Skullgirls sets out to do to just introduce in halfway.
this whole thing of using a timer for combos is very bad imo. trying to understand the way hitstun decay works in marvel is a complete mind fuck, characters like dante get royally fucked over with HSD and then others like spencer and mags are seemingly completely unaffected by it. IPS is very very easy to understand and work around by comparison.