Politicians just tell people what they want to hear, purposely ignoring the actual facts. Australia “solved” the gun problem in 1996, but the number of people getting injured and murdered has not changed AT ALL. So what problem was solved exactly? Now that the same amount of people are being murdered by other means than guns then life’s great?
I wonder what Obama expects would stop anyone who decided to open fire around him or his family.
Hint: probably not utopian fantasy talk.
Sigh im not even bothering this is the same bullshit as the other thread
Nah, its not hard to make laws against rifles and hanguns at all. Rifles and shotguns are the only ones you dont need a background check for at all in most states, and handguns and semi automatic rifles are usually the ones that states require a background check for. The loophole around that is to just go to a gun show, and in which case, most states dont require you to have to go through a background check to purchase a rifle, shotgun, or handgun.
I dont know the details of this case yet at all, but a culture of background checks for all guns would be a start to prevention. It will take a little longer for customers, and you’d have to add extra charges to cover the overhead, but it could help new cases in being prevented. Applying that same law to gun shows would be fine too. In which case, you do a general background check when you register for the gun show, and you get a stamp, wrist band, etc… at the door that marks you of what you can and cannot buy at the show, and have strict mandatory sentences for those who sell to people they arent suppose to.
From there you can require certain classes to be taken before you can also get your gun too. You have to take a drivers ed course before getting on the road, but you can literally just walk in, buy a shotgun and 40 shells on tuesday cause you feel like it, or acquire more at a gun show.
With all that done, yes, you cannot prevent everything from happening, but the bottom line is americans barely try at it. Well, a lot of us care, but our congress could give two fucks about gun reform until their kids start getting knocked off.
Humans are pretty lazy. I think we would be shocked how many people dont go through with something simply because of one small road block, or a few small road blocks. If you had to do a background check for all guns, wait for that to clear, pass a gun class that you paid for, that tested not only your safety skills, but your psychology too, to ensure youre not a reckless, nut, some people who may act impulsively might be quite deterred from committing said act impulsively out of anger, sadness, whatever.
Americans can still have all the guns they want, and have moderate adjustments to who can purchase a gun in the future. On the flip side, again, there are almost a gun for every citizen in america right now.
I know there is the question of buying and selling online, or just because of the sheer amount of guns already out there, buying and selling between one another, but without going on further, simply put, you figure out a way to introduce fair, moderate changes in gun law that allow freedom for owners, but helps prevent future crimes of any sort involving a gun.
**Also, as much as we do bring up people just making homemade bombs, or making molotov cocktails, the fact of the matter is, it doesnt happen often at all. Within the context of replies to certain post we have argued that point, but in general its not something that happens often at all. As easy as it is to download an anarchist cookbook from online, or any of its offshoots, and make something more potent and powerful than letting the gat blow, people arent doing that, and that goes back to what i said about humans being lazy, and stopping once hitting certain road blocks. **
If the media chose to focus on FG events, with attendance and viewership numbers being exactly the same, people would think that FGs were the hottest shit right now and disregard LoL.
If it was really as bad as you guys make it seem they would be reporting at least 20 shoots a day. Everyday. There wouldn’t be time to focus on isolated events. Whether the media knows it or not, because I believe that all in all they are good people, they are pushing an agenda. When they hear these stories they have the same emotional responses that some of you in this thread have, and throw their journalism ethics out the window. Using words like epidemic and shit.
I used the shark attack example in an earlier post because shark attacks in 2001 were the lowest they have ever been. If you were watching the news at the time you would have thought that Jaws was out to get you, but that was far from the case. They used buzzwords and hooked viewers in. “Epidemic levels” they said. It was hilarious. Having all the resources people have now it shocks me that people are quick to make such claims without waiting for all the facts. Especially when we know all that we know now.
As someone that’s lived 3 different American states and is about to relocate to Oregon from the United Kingdom, here’s my two cents:
America is a much larger country, with more homeowners that live in the wilderness, sometimes miles away from civilisation. I feel like these types of people are much more likely to legitimately need a gun. They may need to hunt for food. You could also make an argument that these are the types of people that would need to properly protect themselves from human and animal intruders, seeing as any type of emergency service response is going to take a while to reach them. We don’t have wild bears in England.
On the other hand, I had never seen a real gun in my life until I first visited America. Think about that. The majority of the population doesn’t need a gun and they know they don’t. Some of the comments and arguments I’ve seen tweeted by pro-gun enthusiasts tonight have genuinely made me feel sick, just as they made me sick when we were discussing what happened in Carolina.
I’ve come to the conclusion that some civilians should be able to own a gun, but there should be more barriers in the way. For example, they should have to pass two different tests in order to obtain a license. One would be an intelligence test, the other would be a mental heath check. These would be taken out yearly, just like an emissions test for your car. Also, who the fuck really needs to be buying anything outside of a handgun or a rifle anyways? Seriously. All machine guns should pretty much be illegal.
Want to shoot for fun? Go to a shooting range where no guns are allowed in our out. Want to hunt for fun? Go to a controlled designated hunting area where you hire a gun.
I understand that people own a gun so they feel safe at work, home, school or wherever. I get it. If rules to ban guns ever came into place, they should be balanced by putting more tax money aside for more armed security in workplaces and communities. The unfortunate thing is we all know that nothing will be done until something currently unfathomable to us all happens.
Kinda funny part of a not funny situation: Hearing Fox News reporters say “I’m not sure what 4chan is, but my sources say that it was posted by someone named Anonymous.”
Explain the relevance with pairing Xaiver and your alias.
4chan started trolling by claiming random youtubers are the shooters and show that the media will post anything without checking facts. They were right.
It only had a short spike right after, and then leveled out, and is now on a slow decline. To my knowledge, while violent crimes didnt just disappear of course, why would they, but gun related crimes took a large hit. Nor are their citizens frothing at the mouth to own guns. EVERY australian i know is always confused about how gung ho we are in america. They find it fascinating, and terrifying in the same breath.
I think obamas words might be easily taken out of context for people who get triggered when he mentions australia, but the overall point is that they didnt let a major massacre happen, and then did little to nothing about it. You never know until you try to do something.
The gun issue in america is that there is a large and powerful voice that wont even let us try changing anything about how you acquire guns in this country on a federal level. No one is going to even try to confiscate guns in america, or say you can only own shotguns from now on. Its about trying to prevent future generations of deranged individuals from easily walking into a gun show or walmart, and getting the shit they need to get busy the next day, or in a couple weeks once their background check goes through.
Trolling is pretty good.
Machine guns (i assume you mean fully automatic weapons) are illegal in america to own outside of rare instances.
As a guy who has shot a lot of guns, its fun. Its fun to go out with your boys into the middle of bum fuck nowhere, and light up a few targets for a couple hours. I wouldnt want to not be able to enjoy that again because of new gun laws being too oppressive. I say that in response to you saying maybe only certain people who live in certain areas should own guns. What about people that just like to collect for historical value, or to have a little fun now and then.
Also, there are over 300 million guns in america right now. To put that into perspective, there are a little over 400 million people in this country, which means there is almost a gun for everyone at this point. Gun confiscation is impossible (i understand you didnt imply that), and extreme limitation on gun usage and purchasing would have people seriously lose their shit in america. lol
Also, going to a shooting range can be fun for certain exotic guns, like the tommy gun, or maybe shooting guns you cant afford to own, but ALSO as a guy who has shot modified hand guns and rifles, its a completely different experience to shoot some stock shit, vs some shit you had modified for you (legal modifications of course). Pulling back the hammer on my boys custom .45 was so sexy and silky smooth, i couldve took it from him, and run. lol. Point being, just like how we like to modify our arcade sticks, sometimes you want your own personal weapon to own and shoot, even if it is only at a gun range, and you lose a lot of the culture and jobs by creating a boring, grey culture for gun enthusiast.
What’s worth in gun crimes going down if overall murder, theft, assault, kidnappings, etc. rates didn’t go down with it? The means are irrelevant if the rate is the exact same.
If I was was someone who got stabbed I wouldn’t say “Well I’m about to die, but hey at least I wasn’t shot!”
I think the worth is that with out guns then the rate of mass killings happening in 30 min would decrease? I don’t think that anybody denies that taking away guns will take away the asshats but it would (at best) decrease their power of killing more than 3 people with in an area. More people can actually handle a man with a knife than a gun.
Fair enough on the machine gun part (yes I meant automatic weapons). I wasn’t aware of that (and for the record, I know I am not 100% correct about everything when it comes to this topic). Wasn’t the guy in Oregon in possession of an automatic? If yes, what’s the likeliest way he obtained an illegal weapon like that? I’m genuinely curious.
Could the majority this not be done with a bb/pellet gun? Paint balling? At a proper shooting range? Why does it need to involve the one thing that can instantly kill someone from 50 feet away?
As for the “historical value” argument, I get that, but not everyone needs to be a gun collector. I think there could be room for genuine gun collectors and historians to carry on with their passion, provided they pass a yearly mental health, intelligence and background check, along with satisfying a panel/officer that they are a genuine collector and not just using that as an excuse.
The point is, they tried. There are plenty of other factors that may have contributed to that spike, and overall leveling out in violent crimes, to its current decline in australia that if were also taken care of alongside the gun control, would be more ideal statistics for us to look at when speaking about australias gun control.
The idea of not doing anything because you think it wont change anything, is just being a shitty, apathetic individual.
When you have a guy who was unstable as fuck, gets fired, and can immediately go purchase a gun, do a quick wait on a background check, then go and shoot someone to death live on tv, lead police on a manhunt, then kill himself with said gun, we have a problem with how easy it is to get guns in this country. That was bryce williams i was referring to.
**If there were a few extra modest steps between him paying for the weapon, and getting it, that might have been ample time for him to calm down, change his mind, talk to someone, before committing that crime. Maybe he wouldve done it anyways, but again like i said, humans are lazy, and we’d be shocked how quickly a few small road blocks will deter someone, or provide ample time for that to reevaluate what they are about to do. **
I think we need to focus on mental health more than the tools that are used as a result of someone going off the deep end.
(4chan vs. 24/7 media is one of the many those spats within humanity where neither side is worthy of being supported.)
wonders why this thread has over 50 posts already when there’s hardly any concrete and accurate information released about what actually happened
remembers that people generally don’t care about that anyway so long as they can warp things to fit their agendas
Oh, right. Silly me.
Sigh. I honestly do try to ignore you or at least silently agree to disagree despite you feeling like pick on you and you wanting to martyr yourself, but I can’t let easily checked shit like this slide when it’s so wrong, especially since I try to be as objective as possible.
The U.S. population, as of this year, doesn’t even break 322 million people, much less 400 million people. Please bookmark that link so you don’t make that mistake again.
I can’t correct you as far as the gun estimation goes since as far as the number of guns go, it’s rather variable since pretty much everyone has an agenda one way or the other on top of the fact that it’s way less well-tracked than the census; then again, most things are, but I’m pretty sure there’s at least some obfuscation with regards to collecting accurate data on gun-related anything. So various sources say that either there are already more guns than people in this country as of a year or two ago, or that there’s effectively a 1:1 ratio (which would still be insane) people to guns despite only 20% of America owning about 65% of American guns (supposedly), or that people still (barely) outrank guns with there “only” being around 270 million guns or so. As such, over 300 million guns is probably accurate (unfortunately), so no need to say anything else there.
Someone noted that the guy in oregon was in possession of a rifle and a couple handguns. I havent read confirmation on that yet, but no, i have heard nothing of him owning a fully automatic gun. That would be hard to get outside of the black market, unless you knew someone with one that wanted to sell it, and thats not likely, because people who own it legally usually own it as a collectors item that they might shoot at their private range now and then to keep the gears moving.
A bb gun, pellet gun, paint ball, or confined shooting range doesnt come close to 2 things. 1, the feeling of shooting a powerful weapon is jarring, and exhilarating. I couldve gave two fucks about guns until i shot one, and was like, thats fun. When you shoot your first powerful gun too, there is like this veil that is lifted of all your preconceived notions about guns, or a particular type of gun. Even down to something as simple as that realization of, “HOLY FUCK A 357 S&W IS POWERFUL AS FUCK. NO WAY SOMEONE COULD SHOOT THAT ACCURATELY ONE HANDED LIKE THEY DO IN THE MOVIES”. From their your curiousity can easily run, and turn into a healthy obsession. Every gun ive shot, ive learned something. Theyre not at all similar across the board. Its like fucking a different girl every single time you shoot one, or doing whatever act you care dearly about its diversity.
2, a shooting range isnt the same atmosphere as gearing up with your best friend, stopping at the bass pro shops for some ammo, taking a road trip out to the usual gun shooting spot, maybe grab a couple of brews, and just kick the shit, talk life, unload clips, and laugh and cheer at how shitty we’re shooting, or how awesome our marksmanship was that day. I cant have that same kind of untethered enjoyment at a gun range.
Out in the wild, i can shoot for 30, sit on the ground with my boy, take out the ear pieces, load some clips, pop the top on a tall boy, and talk about life before going at it again.
You may not be into that type of stuff, and i understand. I’m just saying for me, as someone that couldve cared less at first, i totally get it, and when youre not with knuckleheads, its a safe and fun time to have.