#1 newbie mistake and Street Fighter 1

The easiest early noob mistake is to assume harder is always better. A Mortal Kombat fan on a dare to compare said "there are no tickles, every hit comes in only one strength–Deadly. But a Street Fighter fan would say the the lighter attacks are for strategic puropses, lighter hits require quicker reactions to block, so they are more likely to hit, and can set up combos.

But If I’m understanding this right, that was true from SF2WW and after. In Street Figter 1, the game was originally designed with 2-bit analog buttons, and the machine advertised the stronger the button hit, the stronger the attack.

No where did the machine advertise any advantage to punching and kicking lighter. So given that, everyone was pounding the button with fists and even foreign objects, Hence why there was Street Fighter 1.2 with 6 attack buttons.

Is the only change the physical cotroller interface. Meaning the game mentalilty was that of 1,1, meaning the harder the better.

I’ve got a discussion of the various version of SFI on the “Other Fighting Game section” and was wondering, based on the way ver 1.1 was advertising itself, it seemed there was no “cost” for a harder hit. On the arcade 1.1 it was your physical stamina. At home on TG16CD, and later the Wii, it was timing and telegraphing. What was the “cost” of going all heavies in SF 1.2 (the one with 6 different buttons).

Also if there is a “cost” of going all heavy, then what’s a harder skill, finessing a strength, or hitting the right button? I understand it’s a 2-bit button with 4 positions, unpressed, light, medium, and heavy.

Number 1 newbie mistake is posting a thread in the wrong forum

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So how hardcore is the SF I scene anyway? More or less substantial than the Brutal: Paws of Fury and Rise of the Robots communities?

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I just wanted to know if there was a more nuanced strategy than (in verison 1.1) “Hit the button as hard as you can, but save your strength, if your physical (as opposed to your virtual) body tires out with too many hard punches.”? Or was there a reason to punch or kick medium or light, other than saving your physical energy? Did different attacks have different speeds, reaches, and “reload times”? Or was the whole strategy before you found out the hidden moves, to punch and kick hard, to strategically place yourself in range when you attack and out of range when they attack, and to cross up by jumping over them?

If Street Fighter 1.1 (the one with the 2-bit buttons) had the harder is always better approach, was that same mentality of the game mechanics found in the 1.2 version with hard always equally better, or did they adjust 1.2 to reflect the fact it’s just not as hard of a physical feat, therefore, had to give you a strategic reason to use the medium or light attacks?

By the time Street Fighter 2 World Warriors came out, they totally redesigned the game to give the light and medium attacks an different advantage at the cost of attack power. Was that originally present in 1.1, did they change it in 1.2, or did they learn by watching experts of 1.2, that they only put their fingers on hard punch and hard kick and made the adjustment in SF2?

By the way, the reason it’s i the general discussion because I’m discussing the transition form “harder is always better” of SF1.1 (possibly, unless there’s strategy I’m unaware of) to different atttacks, generally classified as light medium and heavy, but are not just carbon copy attacks in every way except their strengths (different animations with different reaches and zones of attacks, etc.) and/or give strategic reasons why harder wasn’t always better (lighter attacks are quicker, therefore harder to block, for example).

Based on the Wii version of the TG16CD version, (and if the emulation is 100% accurate to the original, the TG16CD version too,) there was a cost for hard attacks. You had to charge to get harder punches. (less attacks) So it could have used the 1.1 code as the base code to convert to (if it was different than 1.2), which means harder is better except when you hold punch or kick, maybe you can’t block, or can’t move and “telegraph” your hard punch.

I’m just talking about the Mortal Kombat argument someone made in a dare-to-compare saying, there were no tickles, all attacks come at one strength, deadly. These are the kind of number 1 noob strategy which, when overcome, first opens up your game, from noob status to somewhat thoughtful beginner dabbler. Other fighting games have multiple attack buttons. They may be called different things, but they are somewhat themed relating the attacks in players mind who first approach, like in Soul Edge “horizontal” and “vertical” strike conveys the fact, just in those button names alone, that horizontal is dodged by jumping and vertical is dodged by side-stepping. If 1.1 was programmed to wear you out by heavy punching, then you change to 6 buttons without changing the game engine to accommodate that, isn’t that making the game less (physically) skillful and making the strategy a no-brainer?

I want someone who actually played both Street Fighter 1 in the arcades back in the day, in both the 2-bit button mode, and the 6 button mode. Is there a difference in strategy, or was it a hard punch physical contest (at least until you learned the special moves, which by the way, were not given. You were just given a note that certain combinations of direction and button presses give you powerful special moves, and shut its mouth after that.) did removing the 2-bt buttons remove the physical skill in the game, and not adding strategy to fill the gap?

I’m just here to point out when you were given 6 buttons, you had a reason to use each one of them. But if SF1 was designed as a physical strength/endurance contest, and the 6 buttons were added as a stopgap to save operator expense on buttons, and to hell with the strategic consequences of the game until SF2WW, wouldn’t 6 buttons weaken the game, and make a more interesting games with the 2-bit buttons? Therefore, shouldn’t SF30A have been released with an optional pair of analog buttons to put beside a joystick, and SF! be the analog button version otherwise it’s just a historical curiosity, and not really much of a game unless you have the analog buttons?

I suspect that SF1 is full of nothing but giant button mashing

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Infernoman, Thank you, A big factor was a test of how many times you can hit the button hard before tiring out. And the strategy came into where you’re going to physically muster energy to punch hard, or save it for later. Also if you’re throwing blind hard punches and kicks without strategy, you’ll physically wear out, (one of the reason why Iike E Honda with a standard fight stick, but like Ken with a right handed stick. The strong hand is doing the more difficult thing, either rapid-punching in E Honda’s case, or Dragon Punch Motions in Ken’s case. (yes I value Flamin’ Dragon Punches more than half circle super fireballs when there actually was a difference. Sorry Ryu fans, but that’s why they made the choice more than just cosmetic after Mirror Matches were invented. But that’s why there’s plenty of characters, so you can find your favorite main, and then be a jack of all fighters by learning differences, and there’s no better way to beat them than to occasionally BE them.) )

Was Street fighter 1.2 (the 6 button version) just a mechanical swap-out of the 2-bit buttons without changing the underlying ROM, or was the ROM changed to accommodate the fact it’s just as easy to make a heavy punch as a light one and added strategic nuance for using different strengths?

Does anyone agree (or disagree) that assuming you don’t know the secret moves, 1.1 was more skillful physically than 1.2? (and even if you didl it would still hold true) I’m basing this on assumption I am not sure are true. So if someone has something different, enlighten me. But based on the evidence so far, 1.1 was more skillful than 1.2, right?

You will get to throw a hadouken in SF1 about 95% of the time if you just do Rugal’s Kaiser Wave from CVS2. I don’t know a good trick for the shoryuken though…

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SF 1 WAS an ode to button mashing. Just mash on that Hadoken/Shoryuken motions and hope one of those come out to make you win the match before the AI rushes you down with some jerky/choppy BS. When I played it again not long ago in the SF 30th Anniversary Collection, I dunno if I had grown accustomed to the janky controls or the control scheme was a lot more forgiving but I was getting it a lot more consistently.

I assume CVS2 is Capcom vs SNK 2 for PS2, Original Xbox, and GameCube? If so I should look up the move and try it on SF1, and you came up with that correlation after playing CVS2 then playing SF anniversary and noticing doing that fireballs 90%+.

Did you play it back in the day?

Which version did you play, 6 button or 2 x 2-bit button, or both?

Was the 2-bit version of the idea :“the harder the better”? No real advantage to hit light?

If there was a reason to hit medium or light, should I assume it takes more skill to “dial-a-strength” than to press 6 different buttons?

Did the 6 button version ROM change anything to add a reason why you want to press a medium or light button? Or is it just a controller upgrade to make it cheaper and easier to repair and invites less “foreign object bashing”?

Despite its flaws, it’s WAY easier than the Wii Virtual Console Version (and/or I presume the TurboGrafx 16 CD version) with the added effect of coordinating button timing. If you played it, you were probably used to the Turbo CD or Wii version. Wi verison is impossible without the cheat. Anniversary is buttery smooth by comparison.

But my main question isn’t being answered. Any advantage to light/medium attacks, or is it “go hard or go home” in both the 1.1 version (understandable) and the 1.2 version (which i believe has 4 worthless buttons, if this seems to be true)?

No, back in 2005/2006 there was one of those all in one classic arcade games (UltraCade) at the local arcade. I did it on that machine (with the built in arcade stick; don’t know if it works on pad). Anyways, by accident I did the Kaiser Wave move (f,b,db,d,df,f + punch) and got the hadouken to come out 95% if not 100% of the time…

But I do have the right game, Capcom Vs SNK 2, right? And I assume the home versions are close enough to the arcade where I can look on the moves list on the disc and research the move and try it on both CVS2 and SF1. But you told me the move anyway. I’m not denying that there was an arcade (but after the Dreamcast quit, the Arcade scene was dead in a 3 county radius of Cleveland Ohio, one might be skeptical about the Arcade version, and think it was home only. I have NO idea where to go for the Arcade scene around Cleveland) but it seems like you were denying the home version either existed or is radically different from the arcade, by correcting me.

Better late than never…

I’ve only used Rugal in CVS2. The Kaiser Wave motion in CVS2 is the same for the Hadouken motion in SF1.

The PS2 version (which I still have along with 1st edition of the PS2; still works) comes close to the arcade version.

The arcade version is essentially the same as the Dreamcast version except it doesn’t have O.Iori and E.Ryu and you can’t use S.Gouki and U.Rugal

wtf Jion

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It was the thread on one of the threads that came up in the list of threads. Blame these new forums lol.

On a side note. How many people knew this about the SF1 Hadouken?..

EDIT: @tripletopper created this

I didn’t even know he had made this thread.

@Jion_Wansu Why do you Necro threads? Is there some sort of weird pleasure you get out of resuscitating dead conversations?

:thinking:

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Jion is a zombie hbumper

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