Is it possible to safe jump floored ryu after an anti air lariat (usually traded hits) with or without the ex green hand juggle?
Every time I try the cross up splash he mashes out ex dp and I get nailed.
I don’t believe so. You don’t get a hard knockdown from that.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/categories/character-discussion
No. As EX Shoryuken starts up in 3 frames. If you perform any jumping attack while airborne, you go into 4 frames of recovery on landing, and thus can’t block the attack.
But you can empty jump and land into block if you time it right. Remember the ideal punish for a blocked EX shoryuken is reversal instant L2 FA into AS/HP SPD/U1. Could also be used to punish MP and HP Shoryuken. But I find it hard to confirm against LP Shoryuken.
But in the two situations you described. You can try and gamble for a cross-up/cross-over mix-up. If you cross-over using splash as you have been, EX Shoryuken owns you every time, as your hit/hurtbox is HUGE. Sure you can often trade against regular shoryuken, but its never a favorable outcome (about equal damage, but huge positional disadvantage). Use instead the knees (D+LK in air), to reduce your hurt box and increase the chance of EX or regular shoryuken to whiff pass you.
With anti-air lariat or trade anti-air lariat. The cross over is not always guaranteed, as its highly dependent on the range of the opponent’s jumping attack. If they are too far on Lariat impact, and you start moving forward (lariat clean hit) or walking forward (lariat trade) - you don’t have enough time to cross-over with your jump and a quick stand shoryuken will nail you before you become ambiguous.
I believe if you tag them with trade lariat into EXGH. You will almost always get the cross-over. Provided you walk forward on trade, and time the EXGH to hit them later in their drop. And IMMEDIATELY take a few steps forward after the EXGH, then go into jumping knees. For that reason, I always recommend EXGH after the trade, except for when Ryu is cornered.
I would suggest after the knees, you prepare yourself with LPGH which moves you closer for the grab, when EX/MP and HP Shoryuken misses. While also giving you a soft knockdown when LP Shoryuken whiffs. You can option select, time it, so that the LPGH only comes out when Ryu whiffs. You land quicker if your knees or attack doesn’t make contact with Ryu - quick enough for the LPGH command to come out.
This may sound noobish… but here we go.
When you guys use st.lk O-S EXGH to whiffpunish fast normals, do you actually see the move starting animation, then react to punish or do you just anticipate the move coming out and just stick the O-S EXGH out there without really reacting to it?
Reason why is because no matter how long I practice on training with Ryu as a training dummy doing cr.mk at random timing, I find it really hard to whiffpunish on reaction. By the time my brain registers Ryu’s cr.mk animation and press st.lk in reaction, the move would have already ended and I just whiff my st.lk. I spent many hours on this but Ryu’s cr.mk seems to stick out too fast for me to react. Most of the time it ends up with me subconsciously remembering the dummy’s attack timing and reacting to it…
TLDR; Is the st.lk> EXGH whiffpunish strictly based on visual reaction only and if it is, any tips on how to train to perfect it?
some can do it on reaction, others just buffer the special at wiff range so if anything makes contact the green hand will come out.
OK. Let me clarify something. Your not noobish. I can’t imagine anyone with complete knowledge of the game.
o/s EXGH is not for whiff punishing per say.
It is a proactive counter, meaning that you initiative any of the four light attacks regardless of the timing of your opponent’s pokes. You just throw it out! You aim to beat out their poke using your higher quality LP, D+LP, LK, D+LK pokes - in terms of speed and hit box. You can either snuff their poke before it extends to range, or tag their recovery when their poke recoils. The process is automatic, in that the EXGH comes out when you make contact. You input the same o/s command, and when the attack makes contact - hit or block, your move cancels into EXGH. If your light attacks whiff, the EXGH doesn’t come out, as it can’t be canceled. Also on contact, there is a slight attack pause, which increases the time you can cancel into EXGH.
Now compared to whiff punishing, which is a reaction counter. Your not throwing it out randomly, your reacting to it. Compared to o/s EXGH where you throw it out randomly.
Against Ryu’s cr.mk, you can use o/s cr.lk or the superior o/s far lk. But to use them as a reaction counter would be very difficult, need lightning reflexes. Safe to say, impossible for myself. This is because of range, lesser range reduces your reaction time. Far mk is your preferred reaction counter due to range, which gives you an easier time to react to Ryu’s cr.mk.
An example of using st.lk xx EXGH for whiff punishing is Cammy’s st.hk.
You see the move whiff, and take a step in and perform the lk, then cancel into EXGH. Your command is, F+LK, D, F + PP. But most of the time when you see it used, its not a whiff punish. Hope you understand the different.
Some advice:
- Know the preferred o/s counter poke
- Know the range of your opponent’s poke.
- Try to stay as close to this range as you can, without the poke hitting you. The closer you are, the better your chances for reaction whiff punishing.
- For o/s EXGH, if you can stay further away, at a range I call “poke to poke” (distance of your poke + distance of your opponent’s poke), you reduce the likelihood of trading hits.
- practice your preferred command input for o/s EXGH.
A few suggestions:
o/s lk xx EXGH:
F, D, F + LK, slight pause (so you don’t kara cancel), PP (hold PP) or variant F, DB, F or F, DB, DF or F, DF, F etc
F+LK, D, F + PP (Hold PP) or other variants
or even: F, D, F + LK and hit confirm PP on hit contact
Good Luck
That makes sense.
But Snake Eyes makes whiff punishing a shoto cr.mk look so easy, which led me to believe that my reactions are shit. But I guess it’s just because Snake Eyes’ reactions is so godlike. Looks like I’ll have to stick to proactive OS EXGH for now for stuff like shoto’s cr.mk. I’m able punish moves like Rog’s cr.HP or Chun’s st. hk with the OS EXGH on reaction though, but I’m still not all that consistent.
I personally use the second method to OS EXGH; F+LK, D, F + PP (Hold PP), since i want to have my st.lk come out as fast as possible.
The 3rd method sounds super difficult to do. I didn’t know you can hitconfirm it!
Firstly, Snake Eyez is one of the greatest and smartest Zangief’s ever.
Using o/s EXGH effectively depends on your ability to predict your opponent’s poke - specifically when they do it. The usual dead give away is RANGE. When you get into that spacing, “Inside Poke Range”, that’s when its tempting for them to poke you.
Thus if you want to whiff punish, you walk into “Inside Poke Range” to draw out their poke, tempting them to poke you. But then you quickly move away, so that their poke whiffs, and you punish their recovery.
If you want to o/s EXGH, you walk into “Inside Poke Range” and start up your light attack, in the hope that they poke you.
Just go into training mode. Make Ryu do repeated cr.mk. Then stand just outside Ryu’s cr.mk range, and repeatedly perform the option select:
F, D, F + LK, slight pause. Hold PP.
I don’t think you quite understand the different concepts of proactive and reactive counters, and o/s. I think your confusing o/s with canceling or whiff punishing.
For it to be an option select, you have one command and multiple options.
Command: F, D, F + LK, slight pause, Hold PP.
Option A (Dominant): st.lk whiffs, no contact thus no canceling, EXGH doesn’t not come out.
Option B (Non-dominant): st.lk connects either blocked or hit, canceling occurs, EXGH comes out.
Notice: No hit or visual confirming is required.
It’s not just his reactions. At a higher level, you go beyond conditioning opponents to do dmg on wakeup, to conditioning them to press certain pokes at certain ranges and times. There are many times where it’s reactions; but a lot of it is conditioning and him making educated guesses as to when to exploit that conditioning. You’ll pick up the same ability naturally as you continue to play and raise your level.
hey anyone got a video on how to do giefs options selects? ive never been able to do it right
youtube man, youtube
I have 2 noobie questions 1. How do you guys know your ranges for footsies? Is there a trick for it? and 2. Are safe jumps practical online? If they are how can I start implementing into my game?
Hope to get a response
Hello Gief players, any pad players around?, I need advise about the best way possible for doing the Gief combo: cr lp, cr lp, cr lp, st lk, exGH, the exGH doesnt come out all the time, any advise in execution that you guys may have would be appreciated, thanks in advance!
What I do is press forward + lk to get st.LK and just finish the motion.
thank you very much man, I’ll try that!
I always do F, DF, st.LK and then PP immediately after.
You won’t get any ex green hand out of a chain, the sLK has to be a link so try this way:
cLp > cLP > wait > sLk > ex Green Hand
If you know your opponent is going for a neutral jump in the corner is there a way of landing an Ultra 1 even though he neutral jumps?
grab the recovery frames of the jump if he doesn’t press a button
Yes you need to catch their landing frames. I think it’s really hard, timing wise especially the 720 vs 360 motion. And if they defend with a neutral jump attack spacing will also be an issue.
If it’s an empty neutral jump, you have 2 frames on their landing to grab. Tight execution window, even for LP SPD.
If they defend with an attack, you have 4 frames to catch their landing, but you have to move around the attack, or block the attack and reversal ultra IF IT IS TIMED TOO EARLY in the jump, at their apex. This depends on the strength of the attack used. Else, you need to space a cr.mk, far hk or far cr.hk to meet them at max range throw range on their landing. They could stop you with a late ranged jumping attack. But I find something like a walk up, cr.lk, extended range LP SPD useable, to get around their defence. You could do something similar with the ultra to milk the range.
Otherwise neutralise their defence by trying to cross under them with LPGH to switch sides and then ultra their landing. You have to get your LPGH out just before they leave the ground.
Good luck and post some vids when you catch.