Of course, every player makes mistakes. The matches in this game are generally decided by who makes the fewest. Tokido also had his share, and you’d expect it would even out between two players of that calibre. And yet, Tokido won 4-0. If that isn’t any indication that the match is in Akuma’s favor, I don’t know what to tell you.
Also, somebody said this before, but you seem to think that Gief is matched up evenly with most of the cast, despite the consensus among most players that it just isn’t so. I’d really like to see your matches, you must be some ultra diamond Gief genius who bodies people left and right.
OK you totally missed my point. I understand that every match up comes to the players decision. No the first of four is not enough time to dissect the character match up, if that was the case we would have all of these figured out week one. And you act like he lost to acuma massively. I showed you several times he could’ve turn the tides the other way making one different decision. No time did it seem hopeless for zangief.
And no I’m not some great player because I don’t have the time to play like I used to but I have been playing Street Fighter competitively since the early 90s. And I ran tournaments all the way through the 2000’s. I know enough to dissect character matchups.
On a different note who is the general consensus you were talking about that thinks he is bad. Stupendous said in an interview that he thinks gief has 5-5s with the majority of the cast. Japan Thinks he is top tier. Who exactly are you quoting that have formed your general consensus.
Ok, so Itazan didn’t punish any of Tokido’s mistakes but vice versa they were all punished. Sure. HE LOST 4-0. Many of the things you pointed out are just ‘woulda coulda shoulda’, like the CA he may or may not have used the following round. And not punishing a -5 normal with a 5 frame special is hardly a ‘mistake’. You act as if Itazan played like some bronze level scrub who just got the game. He played fine, it was the character that lost him the matches.
Nemo and Daigo think he is top tier, but the both of them hardly constitute all of Japan. Stupendous thinks Gief has 11 unfavorable matchups and that was even before Urien joined the roster. He may have changed his opinion during S2, I don’t know.
We could argue all day about this, but the fact is your opinion on this matchup means jack shit, and so does mine. I’ll believe it’s 5-5 when Itazan and other top players say it is. Until then, I go by what I see.
No my point was to show the multiple times that he did not punish. I watched the whole set you tell me one time that takido missed a punish. The character did not lose the match, I’m not saying he played like a scrub I am saying he had a bad day and missed a lot of shit. Happens to everyone, I pointed out specific instances that he fucked up. All you did was say scoreboard.
And more than those two have said in Japan that he is top tier.
If you want to have an intelligent discussion that is fine, but when you’re rebuttal is “sure” I don’t see how a discussion can be made.
Truth be told months from now one of us will be wrong but for you to say one set of four games determines an entire match up when it was still close is ignorant.
You didn’t point out anything significant, just some hypothetical things that he may or may not have done differently. The only real mistake that stood out was him headbutting the red fireballs. Other than that, ever think that maybe the best Zangief in the world has his reasons why he does or doesn’t do specific things…? If you mistime an SPD punish or a Lariat fireball punish you’re in for big damage against Akuma, and I’m sure Itazan is perfectly aware of that.
I didn’t conclude it is a bad matchup for Gief solely because of the Itazan-Akuma matches. I’ve seen other Giefs struggle against Akuma, and if even Itazan has a hard time, it is not exactly out of the realm of possibilities that it is indeed a bad matchup for Gief.
I’m not saying it’s out of the realm of possibilities. I do have a question for you though? Let’s say the areas that I highlighted he made a slightly different decision and did the optimal punish. Looking at those rounds, that were deciding rounds, Would you then say that the match is in giefs favor?
Four close matches are not enough to determine if Gief wins vs Akuma. That’s dumb. As the meta evolves, it surely won’t be any worse than 6-4 Akuma at the very worst, but likely will be even like most of Gief’s MUs. I can see why Japan thinks Gief is top tier and why a lot of top Americans are putting him upper mid to low high tier. He doesn’t have too many bad MUs really. Guile and Sim are historically tough, Birdie is tough but isn’t really in this meta, Urien and Boxer are strong and have advantages over Gief too. However, I don’t see any of these as unwinnable.
Gief is good. He’s a stun and mix-up monster. Just enjoy it while it lasts!
Newb Gief here and I have a couple questions in regards to Karin and Cammy “gimmicks”:
What is the best way to deal with Karin Ressenha? I’m thinking block + punish? I find this skill hard to react to and when I try to throw something out to beat it in reaction, I tend to lose.
What about Cammy vskill? It’s +2 so blocking it just let’s her get started with her crazy frame trap game. I’ve found some success with jabbing it on reaction, sometimes I fuck up the timing of this or she crosses up and now I am jabbing thin air and she opens up on me.
Nash in general is just really difficult. I really struggle to get in on him. Between his fireballs and sonic scythe, it’s tough unless I get a read and Vskill it, I start from scratch trying to get in again. I try to slowly walk him to the corner and keep him there, but he is one slippery bastard.
I think he’s strong in season 2 due to the meta change. Gief controls the pace against any character not named Guile. If the Gief player wants to slow it down (against Laura for example), he can play outside of her range and land L/EX spds and cr. Jabs and what not. If he wants to go nuts and wack shit and get people guessing (against Dhalsim for example), he can wack buttons approach with f + mk and v skill, headbutt poke in neutral, jump and try to land a H SPD or a BD.
One thing that hurt Gief was the white life change but it works out for Gief just as well. Gief can use his medium and heavy pokes to rack up gray health for the opponent as well. Gief + grey life = fear. Why? Because if the opponent gets SPD’ed the dude is losing almost 30% in some cases and at the same time he can’t jump because if you have decent reactions with Gief, you can chase with EX BD or catch the neutral jump or cross up with lariat and he just lost 25% off one hit. Gief its like block, jump, tech the grab, oh shit he jumped at me imma have to block this jump in, wait he empty jumped, i just got H SPD’ed, I just lost 30% from blocking all that bull shit and getting grabbed.
There are so many ways around fireballs for Gief now that its not even funny. He doesn’t even need to block anymore lowkey. Lol.
I like Gief alot. Top 5? Hell now. Top 10? You could make an argument but i personally don’t think so. But he’s definitely a solid 12th in the game for me.
I very much agree. I’m still taken back at why Japan rates him so highly but he’s definitely no longer bottom 5. I think he benefits the most from the universal cast changes.
Not to mention he’s still by far the most fun I’ve had in this game.
hi giefs, sorry, I’ve been alot more active on discord just cause of convenience but I’m still around trying to do some sort of work.
a notable change in s2 is that the reduced distance heavy/ex spd leaves us let’s heavy air spd catch backdashes. this allows us to essentially “loop” spds now. this would also explain why they increased the distance post grab for medium spds and reduced the damage of our heavy and ex.
I’ve asked giefs to play around with the concept and see what works for them. I think that being able to somewhat enact a “touch of death” scenario on opponents could be major. there are obvious flaws with it, but I think you guys will point it out. I’m just making sure my idea is out here so you guys aren’t neglected. here’s two example demonstrations of the concept in ranked matches. good luck out there, keep working
It’s nothing but guessing/reads that’s it. If they choose to just block on wakeup we can spd them to death but if we’re wrong we die. You were just going for air spd on wakeup and you guessed right. It’s not really a strategy tbh. This game is nothing but rock/paper/scissors on wakeup.
Yes it’s rock paper scissors but it’s rock paper scissors in our favor. You earned the knock down so they have to guess what you’re going to do. Every fighting game has that if you mind that you probably shouldn’t be playing grapplers.