Zangeif Thread

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
141

vs. claw (imo)

score a knockdown, deep crossup splashes to avoid/beat flipkick into tick 360/720 if blocked or combo lariat for another knockdown. rinse repeat.

kick lariat usually beats his crystal flash roll and his crouching punches at range, but if he starts hitting standing fierce, then youre screwed.

kick lariat also seems to beat out his wall dive cheapness if he tries to do it too deep. if he ranges it out however, then youll get beat but then you should be able to block easily since hes not so deep and ambiguous. if he does the wall dive early/far away, try to counter jump it and smack him out of the air; air throw his ass if you are elite. d/f+fierce air throw has an awesome animation that will strike fear in all ugly spaniards

if you get good pressure going on and he tries to backflip away, walk up and sweep or greenhand and sweep. dont let him reset like that.

142

Lariat should work as long as the wall dive doesn’t hit slightly in front/behind zangief. One counter lariat should set you up nicely for an SPD, so it’s kinda risky for vega to do.

143

Ways to deal with wall dives:

If you’re close to the wall he’s jumping off of or he’s flying high: jumping toward jab/strong
If it’s coming vertically down on top of your head and you’re standing: close standing jab or duck into punch lariat
If it’s coming vertically down and you’re getting up: wakeup punch lariat
If it’s going to whiff: crouching roundhouse or green hand
If it’s the horizontal punch dive: punch lariat (good luck seeing this one come out on reaction)
If it’s coming far in front of you so that it barely hits and you’re standing: crouching fierce
If it’s coming far in front of you so that it barely hits and you’re just getting up: block
If it’s coming horizontally over your head: block
If it’s going to like, hit you in the shoulder: block

Don’t expect a good Claw to do any of those first ones too often. And even for the dives you can hit, Claw can vary his timing really easily, so while jumping strong or crouching fierce work when the timing is right, that timing could easily be off and you could eat some damage and a knockdown. Basically, like for most characters, wall dives are hard for Zangief to deal with.

144

I’m a relatively new player, and I like playing as gief, frustrating as it can be sometimes. I had a few queries about things.

I was actually interested about recommended SPD grab strength. I’ve been told stronger punches increase damage but lower the grab range. As such I’ve been using Jab SPDs almost exclusively. Is this standard or should I normally go for a different one? It seems to me the range is the best part (and jab SPD has pretty good damage anyway) so I mainly use the jab version. out of habit I use Jab, although I do realise when I’m landing from a jumping approach on someone trapped in a corner (or crossing up which seems to put you at point blank range) that I should have used fierce (right?). Is using the jab version a bad habit I need to break for a different strength or is it just something that comes with experience as you alter it on the fly at all times during any match?

I know it was covered earlier in the thread, but I was looking for a bit more clarification on guile and honda.

I was also wondering about Guile a bit. It seems to be insanely hard to close on him, yes that’s the point of guile, but whenever I lariat through a sonic boom I end up getting swept or chipped with his c.forward. I know this is partly me going too close, but what are the best ways to poke him? I have much love for Gief’s C.roundhouse, but it often seems like there just isn’t enough range on it, especially on Guile.

Also if you had any tips on closing on honda it’d be good too. Jumping fierce splash seems to work great on long range sumo headbutt, but the jab one has it’s invincibility frames (so I’m told) which means pretty much nothing goes through it.

Edit: on the subject of wall-dives I find the Jumping Forward and Roundhouse are good for beating out a far wall dive if he’s aiming to land right on top of you. My friend plays claw and now has to compensate by jumping close to the far wall and hitting me as I stupidly jump into the edge of it.

145

Sorry in advance if there are super typos n here, my keyboard’s “i” key s gong in and out.

I used to think the different spd strengths had different ranges, but I’m pretty sure that’s not the case now, and NKI’s translation of T Akiba’s data confirms that. But they definitely do deal different amounts of damage, and the difference is enough so that you basically shouldn’t bother wth jab. Because the ranges are the same, you shouldn’t be pressing just one button for spd at all, you should be pressing two because they do the same thing and you want as many inputs as possible to make sure your spd comes out. You should also only press two punch buttons because you don’t want to get a lariat accidentally. Put all this together and t means you should drum strong and fierce whenever you want to try spd. Notably, the close 360+k move doesn’t work like this, the roundhouse version of the atomc suplex has consderably better range and damage, so you always want to do that one. The far 360+k, running bear grab, has virtually the same range for each strength and the same damage, but the short version has better startup than the others, so you should always use that.

I’ll get to the rest later, but just know that jumping forward/roundhouse get eaten up by a dives from pretty much all angles and all early dives, and they don’t beat as many kinds as jumpng jab/strong. None of these is a good option, but f you have to pck one go with jab/strong.

146

Ehhh…hemm…

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=4835230#post4835230

First couple posts! LOL… J/k You know I love ya! :lovin:

Specfically:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4834752&postcount=102

See, I am not crazy, at leat that what the voices in my head tell tell me! :looney:

But shoot, honestly it would not be the first time I was/would have been wrong. I seem to make that a habit here and there!

See you on GGPO buddy! Got to get more of that O.Honda action!

147

Thanks for the input on that. I’d like to expand my enquiry by checking if there is any actual difference between the different strengths on the SPD. (I think I’m using the world version of ST btw) You say range is no different and i know the damage changes, but is there anything that makes the Fierce SPD harder to get than the Jab? I tried switching over to the fierce and it became immensely hard to fierce and strong SPD from a standing tick. It didn’t help that it made the whole thing quite frustrating which probably shot up my practice effort a fair bit, but then going back to jab SPDs I can pull them off way more consistently. Is this something to do with me or is there any other difference in SPD strengths that will affect the consistency with which I pull them off?

148

The main issue with fierce IINM is if you miss it he does that please hit me (AKA missed grab) animation for longer.

149

The pages you linked have contradicting statements on them (some person says the range definitely differs in the post below you) but apparently all that changes is the damage and whiff lag. Is there any difference in the timing needed between strengths?

I’m a bit confused :frowning:

150

Summary:

No range difference on spinners.
Damage increases with jab/strong/feirce respectively.
Whiff animation increases with jab/strong/feirce respectively.

Basically everything in the second link…

151

The recovery period for spd doesn’t matter. You should only ever do spd f you know you’re n range or f you thnk your opponent won’t do an unthrowable attack (ie dragon punch). f you do t n range and t works, great, recovery doesn’t matter because it worked, and f you do t n range and t doesn’t work because you get knocked out of it, the recovery doesn’t matter because you’re knocked out of it. Even f you do t out of range, each strength of spd has so much recovery tme that t’s free punshment no matter whch punch button you use. Just stick wth strong and fierce, jab offers nothng you need.

152

for gule, try to larat, jump, bulldog, or green hand up to just outsde hs crouchng forward range. try to harrass hm wth standng forward (to beat sonc boom), standng short (beats gule’s crouchng forward), crouchng roundhouse (to beat crouching forward), larat (to beat sonc boom), jumpng short to spd, and walkup spd or runnng bear grab. do all ths to try to get hm nto the corner, then keep trying to counterpoke or react or guess a jump nto 360. make sure you try to drect your spd toward the corner, safe jump nto some combinaton of tcks, 360 agan. ths s a hard matchup, but t’s not the worst.

honda s the worst (and one of the worst matchups in the game), n my opnion. random tidbts: crouchng jab beats slaps at max range and headbutt, crouchng roundhouse beats slaps a bt closer than max range, kick larat beats headbutt on startup and has lke a 50%-33% chance of beating t after that (chance decreases as larat goes on), honda s vulnerable low when startng up headbutt, and f you ever land a grab on hm n the corner, he lands really werd and close to you and you can do immedate crossup splash nto shenangans. you don’t want to jump at honda, at least not close enough to tck, because that’s an easy headbutt for hm. you can jump f he’s dong strong/ferce slaps over and over and you’re far enough away that you wont get knocked out of the air, though. never try to tck hm up close because hs negative edge command grab wll wn every tme, always make sure you do a long enough tck or tck strng that you’re too far away from hm to be command grabbed. try to walk forward wth crouchng jabs to ward off headbutts and slaps. f you get into like your jumpng short range, don’t do jumpng short, you’ll get headbutted. nstead try more crouchng jabs, crouchng roundhouses, crouchng short/forward nto larat (to make hm thnk t’s crouchng roundhouse so he’ll react wth headbutt, whch your larat wll beat), standng forward, standng short, and walk up spd. f you knock hm down, you can safe jump on hm, but make sure you contnue your tck string long enough to get out of hs command grab range, and then decde between spd and larat if he’s doing headbutt/buttslam reversals.

don’t play a rsky style n ths matchup, honda does too much damage and hs headbutt leaves you n too bad a poston for that to be reasonable. can i just tell you though? you’re probably gonna lose ths one.

my i key stll doesn’t work.

153

I know I said I wouldn’t be back till I had proof but this was to good to pass up :rofl: I’m not trying to check how big Hondas dick is before I jump at him :rofl:

I might as well use this oportunity to retract my statement from befor about the 720. Turns out it was due to roll backs and I didn’t know what these were at the time.

154

When Honda blocks low, you can see his penis under his towel.

Use this to your advantage.

155

:lol:

156

LOL, DJ you are one of the funniest guys in ST, LOL. Post of the year.

157

What’s up fellow Zangeif players! I’m pretty much noob when it comes to ST and I finally have some vids of a couple matches. Not high level or anything so it may not be entertaining to watch ~ but any pointers for me?

I seem to have a TERRIBLE time against chun, what the fuck do I do against her fireball, lightning legs, fireball, lightning legs bullshit? I can’t do anything against her lightning legs it seems like. As you’ll see in the vid even the guy playing chun afterwards is like “omg chun is sooo gay,” he doesn’t even play her and I get stomped by her! SHIT! Help a noob out!

RagingKeela vs Murphagator

158

Biggest thing to change about your game is to start using lariat to get through fireballs. Also, more green hand after landing from spd to get closer to your opponent faster.

159

so whats the correct timing and input to landing gief’s super? normally i do 2 full 360s and that seems to randomly come out.

160

Anybody correct me if I’m wrong, but I think his 720 actually *is *random as to if it comes out or not. Like if you had a programmable stick and recorded a legit 720 that worked, press that input a few times and it wouldn’t give you a 720 100% of the time. At least that’s what I’ve heard…

Ok, so I’ve been doing more lariats to get through projectiles and always do green palm after spd (unless already close in corner) now. Now how do I get around Chun’s lightning legs? What keeps chun from just doing “fireball, lightning legs x n” all day against zangeif?

Also, any tips versus Blanka? I’m having trouble against his range pokes I guess. His throw range/poke range is ridiculous.