Haha fuzzywuzzy you’re one of the few people that have now been enlightened, welcome.
ALL IN MY OPINION OF COURSE TAKE WITH A PINCH OF SALT:
Lack of understanding dive kicks and their weaknesses and when you can and can’t move against Yun aids in this sentiment.
Of course he’s a powerful character, versatile per say, good damage, counter poke game, command throw, good meter gain, altering of jump arcs so hard to AA and comeback potential BUT in BO3 or some tournament environments his various playstyles can either go for or really against you (against characters that either do high damage or tricky to get in against).
Unlike other powerful characters before him, he still has to play 2 player with his opponent whereas older versions of characters like Fei in his prime, Akuma, Cammy, can literally play one player.
General consensus is when Yun has momentum he’s OP because of his options but defensively sucks like a toe and takes hits like a schoolgirl.
We’ve all had rounds where we stun someone who the last tenshin into st MP xx shoulder or we cross up dive.
So again he’s strong but we’ve also all had rounds where we’ve gone ham a bit too early or too late.
Low to Mid level (or people that can’t fight Yun) indeed he can look like the second coming of Christ but once the opponent starts countering matches look really different and you have to pick your spots (1-2 at a time) and this is what he excels in but you have to have enough life and do everything right before that happens haha.
In long sets however Yun >>>
Matchups where it’s hard for them to hit him >>>
the only reason yun isn’t represented in high level play is exactly whats been said. look at how well kazunoko did at canada cup. i was lucky enough to translate for the japanese for most of the event. realistically in terms of character match ups he was afraid of boxer and e. ryu(just daigos though). if a player like wong switched from rufus to yun who knows? also we only didn’t see yun at capcup because he lost the qualifier he went to to the guy who won capcup lol.
What moves do people use against Gouken his air parry, Yun his upkicks always hits once. U1 breaks armour and easy enough to react with, but anything else, guess focus but then then there is the chance of the grab.
I was under the impression that Yun’s crossup divekicks after upkick enders were mostly safe, but the best Yun players don’t do them all the time.
So what beats the crossup/not crossup divekick setups? Autocorrect reversals? And when your opponent knows how to beat the crossup divekick, how do you get them to respect it so you can go for it again?
There are quite a few reasons they don’t.
(Just to establish what dives I understood from your post about… any immediate jump dives after upkicks Enders)
Not every character actually takes them, be it their wakeup, funky hotbox.
Biggest one mostly being, which majority of Yun players don’t know is the difference between a cl MP and far MP xx MK upkicks ender.
On some characters like ryu if you did the latter you’d eat a nice reversal if you did a jump forward MK x-up dive or a walk forward manual LK one whereas the other time it would work.
Second, punishment. When players stand block or even block a dive? All those nice beautiful x-up dives can be as high as -4 (you get uppercuts and fast normals into more damage on block).
Lastly to beat these setups (autopilot MK ender immediate jump forward MK dive for instance); well timed blocks as stated above, focus dash aways, certain character reversals are just enough.
Most importantly doing a dive in some situations can put you in an even worse situation than you originally intended, you give up the threat of things like an unblockable throw, lows to stop walk back/jump away etc. and your opponent has less to worry about.
Once you find these types of opponent, either them being smart of just too stubborn to receive a dive after upkicks, cr LK…, command throws, dash backs and delayed buttons on your side outside of their crouch tech range. Then once you’ve established that? Destroy them.
End of the day it’s all a mixup and dive kick is one tool in his arsenal.
Yun can be used full rush down for his tools aka face roll upkicks, dive kick into stun but at the same time the more you know about your opponents defensive tendencies or what they would do? The more effective the other options are.
If you watch Kazunoko play, he doesn’t rely on divekick 95% of the time in an okizeme situation. Instead, he uses c.mp, c.lk and tenshin to build pressure. Once he feels he has the opponent conditioned, then he’ll go for crossup lk divekick on them to beat crouch tech or most reversals. You can’t depend on divekicks for okizeme, there’s too many things which can go wrong, as RMZ explained.
Here’s a question for the 3 people that browse these forums - what’s the deal with s.mk, lp shoulder, hp lunge as a red focus ender? It seems extremely inconsistent across the board to the point where Kazunoko and others have dropped it in favour of just using heavy shoulder into heavy lunge. Are there any characters which it is consistent on, or is there a way to increase consistency?
On a crumpled opponent, you can do delayed MP Shoulder > HP Lunge. This only works if they’re considered airborn when you hit them with the MP Shoulder, but it does more damage than the HP Shoulder. I don’t remember if it does more than the cl.mk combo, though.
I knew about that but I always thought he stopped because it was pretty hard to pull off. His success rate when I saw him go for it seemed like it was around 50%. I personally find it too hard to do consistently so I stopped. How about you guys?
what do you guys do against 4 frame reversals after a lunge punch? things like elena/guys ex dp, guiles fk etc. I’ve got a safe jump to force them out/have the opponent make a decision after an mk nishou. also is there a difference between wake up timings if i hit with ex nishou>lunge and cr.mk>mp lunge?
From memory? Bar Guy, the other two you can practice doing manual dive kicks to cross up.
(What I mean by ‘manual’ are dive kicks where you are waiting for them to get up/require a bit more of practice vs ‘automatic’ ones used in setups i.e. MP Lunge jump forward cross up MK dive, throw jump jump LK/MK dive and MK upkicks neutral MK dive where 100% the dive kick will hit a certain direction).
When you dive kick properly their reversals literally go the other way, other than that for some 4 frames you just have to mix up between meaty cr LK/LP’s, delayed cr MP, jump forward LK dive to beat crouch tech, command throw, jump forward MK/HK dive delayed to catch backdash.
When you hit ex up kick to LP lunge (grounded) you more or less have to dash forward to apply the same kind of pressure you would get from cr MP/stMP xx MP lunge as the opponent takes longer to recover.
MP lunge lets you:-
cross up jump forward MK/HK dive with little or no timing whatsoever (if they tech rise)
if they don’t tech rise the above? a neutral delayed LK/MK dive is possible too (requires a bit of practice)
is a lot more ‘automatic’ / bar 3-5 characters, you can do the same timing dive kick and it’ll give the same effect
side note (good for characters like Ryu, Ken, Akuma E Ryu 3 frame crew)
negatives are you’re F***'d if they block
most times you can’t jump over vs some 4 frame reversals, they tag you
Ex upkick to LP lunge lets you:-
go straight to the corner/screen control
is a lot more ‘manual’ / you time all of your dives a bit more differently (after lunge hits, dash forward and then dive - timing differs)
side note (the dash forward dive kicks are great for characters like Ibuki, Elena, Guile and reversals that go straight up)
negatives are again you’re F***'d if they block
AA Ex Upkick to MP lunge however I found leaves the opponent on the floor a lot longer than both, so again it is a more manual timing type of thing
Just a newbie question. What is the point of safe jump and meaty cr. mp setups? Are safe jump setups supposed to bait people to do a reversal DP and then you just punish after the block? Don’t meaty cr. mp just get snuffed with a wake-up DP? I’m fairly new so I’m trying to understand why these are so important.
and reversals that go straight up)