If I’m trying to do the whole call tatsu to high-low with cL vs jL, what’re the best ways, specifically, to set that up? Like, connected sL+tatsu? Dive kick call tatsu on way down? Etc. Basically, I’m trying to figure out the ideal sequence(s) to give me the best conditions for using the tatsu lockdown to have time to do the cL/jL without them being able to interrupt or escape (dealing with the mixup, they could always block correctly)
In a nutshell, I’m looking for the best exact times to press the tatsu button. “Any time you’re in close” is def not the answer. Also, if I hit with the jL (not raged or in xf), is the best confirm jLS xx drill xx dive? I know this is all 101 but I never really gave wolvie a serious shot with anything other than drones. But now that I’ve been reunited with my lost love tatsu-taskmaster, I’m wondering if wolve task akuma might not be amazing.
too lazy to type out an essay on the subject. i highly suggest you study some of justin wong’s recent matches for some ideas; it should answer all of your questions. you might want to watch this guy as well:
[media=youtube]tuVgj1WaRv8[/media]
also, i would say the best confirm off of j.L + tatsu would be this: j.L + tatsu, j.MHS, (land) st.MHS…works anywhere on screen.
I could go on all day about the best times to call Akuma but in all honesty it’s just really dependent on the situation and what you are going for. I will say that there is no great way to get akuma to setup a 50/50 midscreen since they will pushblock you out and you won’t have time to beat the pushblock and hit them in time. This however works in the corner though by simply divekicking with akuma and then dashing to beat the pushblock and going for an instant overhead. (Noel Brown’s staple mixup)
I like to call akuma in a few ways to set my rushdown. There’s the obvious jump dive kick which lets you set up low/throw/tickthrow/cross up mixups as you mentioned. Another setup I use frequently is to use st. H with akuma into H. Bslash. His st. H his an amazing footsie tool and really underused with how insane it is. One of the reasons it’s insane is because of the way it works on block and hit. With akuma assist I press st. H and then call akuma after and do an immediate bslash. This gives me both a hit confirm and a mixup. Since St. H provides a lot of hitstun but much less blockstun, if the st. H connects everything from the bslash and akuma assist combo very nicely. If they block the st. H they still have to block a cross up or pushblock to extend their hitstun to absolute guard it.
Another way I tend to call tatsu is by doing cr. L twice + tatsu assist. If they pushblock the first cr. L then they have to block akuma right after and if they don’t pushblock you are in their face in a scary mixup situation. These are a few ways to call it offensively. One of the main ways to call it defensively is to jump forward and just call tatsu and block. Justin does this A LOT for he’s just waiting to see what you do and react accordingly. Most of the time he will pushblock your attempt to put him in blockstun and akuma will come right out to hit the opponent for a free combo. It’s a really strong option people tend to overlook.
As far as confirming off of an instant overhead when tatsu hits I usually just fall down with j,S into a full combo. I neglect the other air move because of how godlike j.S is to set up fuzzy guards which Wolverine can capitalize off of REALLY WELL! I’ve been meaning to make a tutorial on how to mixup/reset with this character but have been too lazy lol. Here are some other match videos of wolverine being the best at what he does and hopefully those can give you a few ideas.
[media=youtube]f7RZC4qylPY[/media] (from the same teams tournament wayy back)
[media=youtube]uxzvJ_eXOBw[/media] (From a random tournament in SC I went to)
[media=youtube]NfBfb-AcX5g[/media] (From same SC tournament)
Don’t be too harsh of my tournament footage >.< I’ve been really working on dealing with nerves and my mental stamina in tournament and it’s been seeming to pay off recently. But yeah hope this helps!
Awesome! Thank you both! Don’t be too hard on yourself SBK as far as the vids. I understand the nerves thing, and its obv you’re very good.
I tested earlier and it turns out wolve can get the DP xx fatal off task arrows with otg slide, so my intended team of wolve task akuma just may work! Speak of which, that sH+tatsu mixup is excellent, and seems similar to the shield skillz + tatsu combo/mixup I love so much. Plus, arrows can be an excellent longer range assist to close the distance with logan. Jam session is definitely better, but I have no idea how to make tatsu dante work, and am quite adept with tatsu task. That said, id love to hear your explanation of the tatsu dante game plan if you’d feel like writin it, but after the above I can’t much ask you for additional favors, hehe.
Can’t wait to mess with all this, thanks again!
Edit: watchin your vids again, I may need to run dante just for the jam session, regardless of being clueless how to be broken after wolvie dies. You’re not even using one of my fav tricks with the duo: on walecome, call jam, bslash behind. Though it could be that your opponents know this so not doing it is just a double mixup. Yeah, ill credit you with that
Oh yeah, could you maybe give an example of how one of those fuzzies might work? Is it, like, after a blocked jS, doing another instant jL upon landing? Or something more?
Oh trust me I do Bslash behind with jam session A LOT! I like to save it and condition people with other mixups that are more meaty with jam session to make them respect me. Doing the crossup can be mashed out of against guys like Dr. Footdive and Vergil with helm breaker which is why in those videos I just called jam session meaty against doom everytime and they get hit lol. Once I gain someone’s respect on incoming then I can go for the really stupid stuff. Jam session inc mixups are my specialty =P
But yeah as far as the fuzzy guards work it’s off of a blocked j.S. I’m surprised I don’t see more Wolverine players do it but basically when they block j,S you have a buttload of blockstun to where they are stuck in standing. You have enough time to dash and do j. LLS and that fuzzy guard setup works on nearly the entire cast except for some random characters and the small once like joe and raccoon. I like dashing after j.S because if the opponent pushblocks I usually am able to stay in their face and continue to do a triple instant overhead people can’t react to. The reason I feel people dont do this is because the link from j.S into st. L after the j.LLS is pretty tight (I’m roughly guessing around 2 frames which isn’t tough but isn’t free by any means) Shoutouts to PR Balrog for being one of the few people who know this tech.
You don’t even need to use j.S to setup the fuzzy guard since your assists end up doing it for you a lot of times when the opponent is trying to upback out of your shit. As soon as you see someone standing in blockstun they are gonna eat some bullshit! Also this works off of a lot of the typical tech chase resets Justin and myself do off of a forced ground tech from OTG slide or double divekick. If they block the first overhead with akuma they are still on the ground in a standing state blocking akuma which leads you to either do the j.LLS fuzzy or do jump S at certain spacings into the fuzzy once again. It’s shit like this that I’ve been doing for a while that makes me feel that Wolverine while still being really strong in the metagame has a lot of room to grow and is a contender for a top 5 spot just due to how unfair his mixup game can get. He’s the best at what he does!
I need to make a tutorial of some sort showcasing some of the setups I do ranging from untechable grabs to resets that tech chase forward back AND neutral tech with the same input for a free 50/50. This character is cheap!
AWESOME. Im REALLY strongly thinking I need that Jam Session, though while I feel my Dante Neutral is decently strong with beams and such, I really have no idea how to force the cheap with tatsu. If you have the time and inclination, would you mind PMing me with some of the basics on how you run a tatsu Dante (or in here, just thinkin PM since it becomes slightly off topic, though one could argue it’s in reference to ‘a wolverine team’)? No need to include combos (though if you want to, feel free! Im just tryin to make your job easier :] ), but basically something like you did above for Logan but for 'te? Basically just how and when you use Tatsu for him, offensively and/or defensively. Between the difference in range, and what happens when a tatsu connects, its different enough from arrows or missiles or bolts for me to request some guidance on what I wanna do. And I’m not starting from square one on Dante, JUST with Tatsu-Dante.
If I can ultimately feel confident with tatsu-Dante, I think I’ll end up working on this team pretty hard, along with my baby Task Mag Akuma, and likely play only those two teams for a good long time. I’m pretty much mono-Tatsu lately. So running a Wolverine team feels like a no brainer. And it’s DEFINITELY gonna be Task or Dante in the middle. I prefer Jam Session, by a LOT, but the benefit of Jam over arrows has to outweigh the down-side of Dante over Task, who’s easily my best char with a hurricane kick backin’ em. So if that can become a non-down-side, cha-ching! I actually played Wolve Dante Akuma a bit in vanilla, but that was an entirely different animal where Dante could kill off an ABC-launch via DHC glitch. Between that and the nerf of Hammer, a Dante player actually has to be able to, you know, play Dante now lol
Thanks either way! And if you dont feel like it on the Dante-with-tatsu writeup, no worries! Your shit above covers your good-deed-for-the-day for the next 2 weeks
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna re-read your posts and search for more vids of you and Justin. Shout outs to thrilla for the assist as well, and finding the perfect player example for anyone else who may be lookin for a blue print on the original BFF duo!
on characters tall enough(normal height and taller), you can input the first j.L a little later than usual to make the link from j.S into st.L not as tight.
are you talking about the one where, after forcing a ground tech, you dash + tatsu assist, normal jump backwards j.LS, dash up then go for either j.LLS or cr.L? you really should make a tutorial.
Thrilla that reset is the one I go to for just chasing front and back tech in the corner (the level 1 reset, the reset I’m talking about is my level 2 reset =P). If people neutral tech and mash on you with a fast normal or a throw you end up getting caught dashing when chase teching and either get happy birthday’d or get thrown. Not many people neutral tech but I’ve taught a lot of my friends how to get out of my shenanigans so that I would be challenged to learn how to read tech patterns and come up with resets that cover better situations.
Also I take offense to the term shenanigans! To me a shenanigan is something where once you do the mixup it is easily countered by the opponent and you don’t have an extra layer to the mixup to cover the hole next time you go for it. If I didn’t have resets that beat raw tags and neutral tech mashing then hell yeah it would be a gimmick/shenanigan but I’ve spent a lot of lab time to figure out ways to beat those options so that I can always have a chance to mess my opponent up and be in a situational advantage! It’s all about conditioning yo lol
the other day, i was rudely reminded of something that hasn’t been mentioned since the early days of vanilla: wolvie’s level 3 hyper causes a ground bounce right before its last hit lol. how stupid is that? is there any other hyper that uses up a ground or wall bounce like that? i can’t think of any off the top of my head. oh well, i’m not going to forget it this time and let it fuck up my follow up combo.
yeah, it’ll be cool to see him get off two level 3’s in one combo. wait a minute…is that even possible without TACs? i think it is off a raw level 3, since you’ll have both assists available for the follow up and the hitstun decay won’t be too bad. something fun to test out.
I know I can do it with Wolv/Dorm/Doom cause P.Beam and Dark Hole both build a good chunk of meter. But I think I fell short by like 3-5% of the bar I needed using Iron Fist and Dorm with some silly optimisations which make it really difficult.
iirc Wolverine’s level 3 not only uses the bounce, but starts the HSD off before you can extend it, limiting it even more. But I might just be remembering it differently.
yeah, i was able to do it with wolv/dorm/doom also. what led you to believe that his level 3 starts the HSD before you can extend it? is it unique to him?
It might have been just because 2x assist extensions is slower than a normal combo with a ground bounce relaunch, plus the additional time of dashing over to OTG with an assist.
Theoretically if you start with throw and perform a long combo with 2 assists and no ground bounce, you should be able to do that same combo after level 3 no?
But I’m not sure if that’s the case. I’ve never landed enough raw level 3s to bother looking that far into it, I just looked at what extensions I could do after using level 3 after the the 1st air series into dive kick > st.H xx B.Barrage H.
I actually played Wolve Dante Akuma a bit in vanilla, but that was an entirely different animal where Dante could kill off an ABC-launch via DHC glitch. Between that and the nerf of Hammer, a Dante player actually has to be able to, you know, play Dante now lol