55

After messing with SUS, I’m not a fan. It does have armour if you time it right but won’t do against a spammer unless close. Never thought to use it as an AA, does it lead to anything combowise?

56

If you catch them high enough you can TC into a combo, the knockdown is better than getting jumped in on, plus it can be anti-crossup, which for 1 bar is nice, I need to test it out against specific moves like air tatsu but it seems good against one hit air normals

57

Talking Yoshi alone with one bar the EX versions of SUS and Stone Fists have armor and can be used to eat through a single attack or jump-in (as mentioned already). It’s only during the 14 frames of startup though. I think you’re better off using either an EX gehosen as a AA for it’s 7 frames of invulnerability, or using the alpha counter version of gehosen either when you block the jump-in or their follow up pressure. As for the anti-crossup I’ve never tried but sounds useful to set up for TC’s. Because the armor is on the 14 frames of startup, if Ryu’s do something like J.Hp> Srk, you will absorb the J.hp but get hit by the Srk before the EX SUS active frames even start. (Right? Timing dependant I guess)

However, if you have 2-3 bars, EX stone fists and Ex SUS give you more time to attack when TC’d than windmill. Because they are cancelable from a chain it makes them easier to confirm while opening up more damage during a TC than instead cancelling into EX gehosen, EX windmill or EX poison breath (which should be used for resets).

Therefore, with 3 bars, you can combo into Ex Stone Fists, tag in and charge from Ex to super with your second character. A four bar combo with three bars used. Depending on the partner characters damage output it’s worth it, also style points.

or if you have two bars and depending on the partner characters charge move and how fast it comes out charge to the Ex version, for a three bar combo with two bars used.

58

you could use yoshi as bait, EX SUS as AA, Ryu j.HP and as he lands for the dp, TC out and punish with incoming character

59

Ending a combo with any light, light xx Lk poison breath sets up the perfect immediate jump for the air target combo on a quick standing opponent.
Also good for empty jump >throws.

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With a counter hit stored, we can combo into Windmill from a cr.lp or cr.lk.

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[media=youtube]hXozTiJN7wg[/media]

Found this out while messing around. You can instant overhead with the air target combo. You can’t do this with normal j Lk. It has longer range than a j. HP, and you can do it point blank ( can’t with j HP, can with j lp). It hits crouching opponents (can’t with j HP or j lp).

Other random fact is that j MK has a different animation on the way down, and this slightly effects the air target combo. When you do the IATC and the MK follow up, yoshi will swing his leg high to gain a slight bit more height. Doing the TC on the way down he’ll do a straight kick to the side instead. If you cant tell then just jump straight up, and press the mk as you jump a few times, then press mk on the way down a few times, look at his back leg, they are different animations, and doing it on the way up he lifts his leg a bit higher. Dunno if that affects the hit box or what.

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This is more of a gimmick find (maybe it has some use) but apparently it’s possible to feign j.:hk: into flea stance if the j.:hk: is almost close to the ground. (I think the distance was if you started j.:hk: at like the head of the opponents character don’t know if this works with his other air attacks or can you cancel into anything else).

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Someone asked me to make a video with a 900 damage Yoshi pandora combo. Here I have Cammy with the pandora extension gem, Yoshi with a pandora activated power gem, a super activated power gem, and a launcher activated power gem. 927 damage. Practicality: pretty much nil.

[media=youtube]ZXZR02XQvSE[/media]

Edit: also you can tag off of poison breath when you use it to cancel out a fireball.

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Double post with content.

After a deep jump in that is blocked, most full chains are pretty unsafe, and are made even more unsafe because alot of the animations move Yoshi forwards. Especially standing Mk, st hp and st hk. Cr mp also does this, and when close enough a light attack will bring you in close enough for a close standing Mp. I think most of us knew this already.

However some moves won’t move Yoshi forwards, Mostly his Cr mk. You can use this to make blocked chains safer by adding more distance. I believe frame wise a simple light> close mp is the safest chain, but you are also still point blank with the opponent, which isn’t really where Yoshi wants to be IMO.

After a deep jump in, it’s likely best to go for cr lk to mix in the low, plus this is like the only range you can use the move anyways. Doing a chain like cr lk, cr mk, cr hp will push you away pretty far. You can end with a sweep instead or go all they way through to launcher if you confirm any hit in between. Of course anyone with a decent sweep can still punish you, and probably any srk if they are mashing. But hey you gotta work with what you got right? I they’re mash happy then it’s probably best to just jump in and then teleport back.

Another good thing to know is that after a blocked deep jump in (includes crossups with j mk), then cr. lk, cr mk, cr hp chain, you are at the perfect distance for a max-range cr mp. You can cr mk if you are fishing for a counter hit (it wont hit the opponent from this range unless they stick something out), but I believe that cr mp doesnt have an extended hurtbox because its a sword-based attack so its probably more useful. You can also throw out a st mk if you like.

Continuing with the point, after said chain, a max range cr mp is possible. If you’d like to buffer a lk poison breath onto that then you will also set yourself up for the perfect jump angle for an ambiguous air target combo (the one where the lk hits in front and the mk hits in back).

To create max distance on a blocked chain, do your jump in and hit with close st Mp to give the frame advantage, then do the chain. Preferably something like j Hp/crossup J Mk> close Mp> cr lk, cr mk, cr hp/sweep so you can mix in the low as much as possible to condition for the overhead. You wont be in range for any of your moves to hit except hp gehosen, but it is still a good counter attack range, and far enough away that they cant jump to cross you up. If they are jump happy then you are good to cr hp, lp/mp/ex gehosen (I’m guessing a hp will go under them), or neutral j mp/hp air to air. If you want to windmill make sure you backdash first or you’ll get beat by a deep jump in.

I kind of mentioned this stuff before as a setup for an ambiguous j mk crossup, but these are a tad different now that I see which moves move Yoshi forwards and now that the air targett combo is put into the mix.

Cr mk is a good late-reaction AA, though it will almost always trade, and they have to be in front of you. If they do a jump in that is solid you should be blocking anyways. If they jump over you and its a little too far you can wait til yoshi turns around and cr mk them, sometimes hits clean sometimes trades, gotta practice the timing so you see when the cr mk goes active, if you do it too late you’ll get beat, not always reliable but might be good to practice. Cl st Mp and standing lp are also good for doing after turning around. Use these if your opponent has sloppy jump ins or if you’re walking forwards when the opponent jumps close and goes over you,you can hit them out of the air and if you got a counterhit you can continue the combo if not then you can probably jump mk while they recover for a crossup.

I noticed a good amount of Yoshi players going into the overhead from a blocked jump in, pretty smart since alot of players natural reaction is to downback after a blocked jump in.

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I was testing the cr mk a few days ago against crossups and it works really well against Asukas who like to jump over u constantly with Hp. Thanks for the info mugetsu.

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Np, np. Doing labtime while i slowly, sloowly rank my team up online.

Desk put out the video recently talking about launcher tag cancels into air throws, i thought that was pretty legit because I play as cammy so I’ve been practicing that for style combos.

While I was doing that i wanted to see if Yoshi could do anything interesting off of launcher tag cancels. Some interesting/funny/useful stuff is possible because of the juggle potential being reset from the launcher and weird juggle properties while they are stuck in the launcher animation.

Something I personally think looks hilarious though it isn’t useful is that you can do a raw launcher while the opponent is still stuck in your first characters launcher. If you let them fly up you cant do it though.

More useful however is that you can do two gehosen from it (use lp version). You can also do one gehosen and then super in the corner if you feel so inclined.

I know I saw this in a video somewhere and never got to figure out how they did it but if you do a lk poison breath just as they start to shoot up from the launcher, they’ll hit the last active frames of the PB and you can do a gehosen afterwords. If you do it too early they’ll get hit by the beginning of the PB, if you do it too late they’ll get hit by the beginning/middle of the PB, but the timing isnt hard to find once you get it. Looks pretty cool.

You can also do Triple roundhouse> gehosen before they shoot upwards.

Its not very good for jumping normals, but you can do an air target combo> super midscreen.

If you downloaded the auto combo dlc stuff and looked at it, you know that you can do a cr Mk after a gehosen to save one less hit on a light attack. The auto combo does hp gehosen> cr Mk> lp sus, but you can obviously cancel into whatever special you like. Timing can be a little strict.

When you do the over head and then it’s SUS followup, if you press back then forwards or vice versa you will backdash. This is only supposed to happen by pressing back twice.

I’ve been trying to mess around with stone fist options after finising a combo with gehosen. This is all dependant on which version of gehosen you did (hp will leave you closest to the opponent), and what normals you used before cancelling into it (for example after a launcher to Yoshi, some of us like to do close st mp>lp>mk xx gehosen to put the opponent in a good position for a crossup).

On an opponent that gets up normally (the long wait), you can do something like immediately follow your gehosen ender with a hk stone fists and mash all the way. The very last hit will hit and you’ll fall backwards(this is still punishable so watchout). If you dont mash all the way but count to five quick taps you’ll be good for a grab or just to bait something and block. You’ll be recovering basically right as the opponent is so make sure you get used to the timing of when stone fists recovers.

On quick recovery a hk stone fist will hit twice. A mk stone fist will hit once, and after that you are close enough to grab, but remember that you start off with -2 advantage on hit so do this when you’re confident. You can do the lk version if you want to whiff and then grab.

These are basically to get them to think they need to block low on wakeup. I dunno how strong they are, just theory fighting and trying to find a use for these moves since they dont do enough damage for use in combos. All of this is pretty much the same for SUS except it has shorter range, doesnt hit low obviously and is better on hit and block by 2 frames.

You can also do something similar to Lewis24’s ex poison breath> lk xx ex suicide reset. Just cancel lk into a stone fist or SUS instead for the same kinds of setups as above. If you confirm the hit you can mash a few more hits or mash all they way til you fall if you like.

After a hit or blocked close st Mp: a st lk, close st mp chain is possible as with any light normal (except cr lk), but only with st lk can you do the chain one more time. On block it will go into the close st mp again, on hit it will cause too much hitstun and do far st mp instead.

I think that’s all I got for now.

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Thanks again for sharing your findings/experiments. :slight_smile:

I’m also doing a ton of lab work but I’m trying not to share some setups until I can definitely say they work with enough consistency.

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Back with more:

So, I was watching a new replay of that boxer/yoshi player that i posted vids of in the video thread. Now he plays Nina/Yoshi. I may post some vids later, but for now I just wanna post some tech I found inspired by him.

I saw him do a chain to launcher combo from Nina to yoshi, then standing jab and launcher back into Nina. Cue me going “whaaaaat?”

So, i went to the lab real quick. This is possible off any partners launcher as far as I know. The trick is you have to hit the standing jab super early, I heard somewhere you can stop your character a little early while they run in, so you probably have to do that. Not sure how that works…

In any case you have to hit the standing jab basically as early as possible, the juggled character will still pretty much be over your head. You do NOT chain into the launcher, it will whiff, you have to link into it.

This also makes standing jab>triple roundhouse possible after launcher. Though you can’t follow up with a gehosen because the triple roundhouse eats up all the juggle potential. Dont believe you can follow with cross arts either. In any case this is a pretty tight link so its not really worth it, but its nice to know…I guess.

Something else I’ve been playing around with is using boost chains to launcher to cross under the juggled opponent. I wanna say Lewis24 had this in one of his videos but i’m not sure…maybe one of Vulcans…i dunno. But anyways just doing a juggle all they way thru to launcher often will get you to cross under the opponent. Looks bad, but actually pretty safe and can make the opponent think they can punish you.

Something like gehosen> lk, close mp, hp, launcher will take you under. I dont know the exact frames, but it looks like you are basically even on recovery with a quick standing opponent. The recovery is pretty long but you can get the timing for a grab followup if you press it right when yoshi turns around. Watch out for mashers, though as far as i’ve tested you are safe if you block (tested trying to quick stand and mash jab with cammy), you might even be plus a little as I can grab Cammy out of her cr mp (starts up in 6 frames, grabs start in 7).

If so then you should be able to throw out a meaty cr lp and beat some stuff you wouldnt be able to otherwise and if you get a counterhit you should be able to confirm another LP into a combo. Take this info with a grain of salt because I’m not too used to testing stuff with the record option and my timing tends to be sloppy, but I tried to do everything as tight as possible and it should work as I said (it might even work better for all I know).

You can also use this to cross up an opponents roll and either make it unsuccessful or make them roll themselves into the corner. If you think they are gonna roll hop into flea after your launcher recovers and headbutt.

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I really think this trick here has a lot of unexplored potential.

It means Yoshimitsu can safely tag cancel from anywhere on the screen whenever he wants. And this kind of “empty tag canceling” is faster and a lot safer than just a normal tag. The main reason why it’s safer is that your partner can just stop his run very short with a normal or special as soon as he gets passed Yoshimitsu.

Like Lodrak mentioned you can also use this to create a surprise attack. And with Yoshimitsu still on screen, it also means the opponent will be magically cornered for a moment which means they can’t backdash or jump away and are suddenly seeing your partner run towards them. They are forced to “deal with it”.

I’ll try to explore other uses for it…

70

^ lol sorry I didn’t really find a good use for it.

I did however find something interesting: If you tag cancel Yoshi’s slide headbutt on block, your incoming partner will be able to block 3 frame reversals in time! Yoshi will of course get hit by the reversal but since your partner is safe that also means you might be able to get a full combo if you bait a reversal. Slide Headbutt xx Switch cr.lp/cr.lk is also a legit blockstring/frame trap. If Cammy mashes her cr.lp (3 frames), Juri’s cr.lp (4 frames) will win with a counter hit. Sometimes their jab doesn’t even come out and I can go right into a blockstring.

Also, by tag canceling slide headbutt your partner can cancel his run a lot sooner than usual.

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Yoshimitsu Setup for Unblockables*
*Limited testing done,

SFXT features an autoblock feature for any character in blockstun as a pre-emptive C.Assault nerf.

Yoshimitsu’s Windmill is his best move for tag cancelling because it builds meter, lasts long,
easy to combo from on hit and can be made safe on block by jumping over with your partner.
As stated earlier due to windmill’s blockstun early crossups are autoblocked as long as your foe is under blockstun.
If you time your crossup or alternate mixup such as Raven’s Wind Cross to hit just as blockstun ends it may work but is unreliable
and waiting too long can get you "happy birthday"d.

Certain moves in SFXT have properties e.g Ground Bounce, Wall Bounce, U N B LO C K A B L E.
[SIZE=4]That’s right **King and Nina ** are some/all the characters with true unblockables.[/SIZE]
[LIST]
[]These Setups are timing specific and will not work when done too late/early
[]You need to time them so your unblockables hit just as Windmill end.
[]Have tried with Nina, you have to backdash then do medium version of her special step into unblockable and it should work if timed correctly.
[]Tag Cancelling a blocked windmill into King’s unblockable has worked for me, prompting me to make this post.
[]These have been tested on both crouching and standing opponents
[]Vulcan Hades has pointed out that backdashes and 1 frame invulnerable reversals can counter this, so save this for final round of a match or corner.
[/LIST]
Uses
Personally I use it as a [S]option select[/S] safety net for blocked windmills.
Safe way to tag cancel Yoshi without getting Shoryu’d/SPD’d out of your mixup.
It can be an advanced reset tool.
It forces knockdown so this can be used for repositoning.
Can confirm a clutch victory.

Notes[SIZE=4]These work in training mode against CPU on autoblock.
These are timing specific

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=6]How do I know this is an unblockable? [/SIZE]
When an armor move is hit once you will see a red block stun sort of animation;
When an unblockable hits, you will see a shattering white block stun animation,
This is only shown if your opponent was hit out of blocking OR out of blockstun.
In training mode with blocking set to auto (blocks after first hit),

I did jab -> windmill(autoblocked) ->tag cancelled EARLY into King and into his Moonsault Body Press
It hit and the Icon showed up.

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Optimized tag cancel Windmill combo

With 1 bar of meter, you can pretty much spam windmill tag cancels,
on hit you can do abc-> launcher -> Yoshi Juggle which builds close to 1 bar of meter.
So in theory it uses only a fraction of a bar meaning 2 bars = like 6~8 of these not just 2.
The damage varies based on how you perform your cross rush, when you start your cross rush and who your partner is
but overall the results are satisfactory.

**On Hit **
[LIST]
[]start the abc as late as possible to build more meter
[]starting the cross rush from medium gets you more damage but starting from light is okay as you get a bit more meter
[]Tag cancel as soon as your foe starts getting pulled in to build maximum meter and have better excecution of your option selects
[/LIST]
[SIZE=6]On Block,[/SIZE]
[LIST=1]
[]Perform an unblockable (explained in previous post)
[*]Crossup into a block string,
(this will build you meter and if your lucky you can get a hit into crossrush or BNB giving you similar meter to if the combo hit initially.)
[/LIST]

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Ok I’m sorry but now you’re just giving bad advice. :sweat: I just want to correct you on a few points… don’t take this the wrong way please.

  1. ABC magic series is bad. You need to neutral jump fierce/roundhouse into manual launcher to optimize/maximize damage and meter gain. Even c.hp into launcher is better than doing mp, hp, launcher. So no ABC please.

Example using Yoshimitsu/King:

-Windmill Switch > late ABC xx Launcher > BnB = 345 damage with around 0.8 meter gain
-Windmill Switch > nj.hp xx Launcher > BnB = 433 damage with exact same meter gain

ABC does not give you more meter and it doesn’t do anything but scale the damage down. So it’s an awful habit no one should be doing ever.

  1. You use the term option-select but I don’t think you know what it means. OS is when you program a series of inputs to cover various scenarios and in this game usually you do an OS during a safe jump since most other OS aren’t possible because of how the chain system works. j.hp/j.hk option-select launcher/sweep/windmill for example to cover the backdash outcome. If the opponent get hits or blocks nothing comes out but if the opponent backdashes and your meaty jump in attack whiffs, then your buffered move comes out.

Watch this video to better understand what an option-select is:

Spoiler

[media=youtube]aiDkDYzsxXs[/media]

  1. I wouldn’t call your unblockable a “Yoshimitsu unblockable”. Because it’s basically just using windmill to setup another character’s unblockable move (King’s Moonsault Body Press has unblockable properties so of course it can’t be blocked, but that doesn’t make it a Yoshimitsu unblockable)… In SF a “true unblockable” is for example a cross-up that can’t be blocked by holding left or right, you have 1 frame to block an unblockable. In SFxT some teams have similar high/low “unblockables”, for example when tag canceling Hwoarang’s Hunting Hawk, the partner can try to squeeze in a low or an ambiguous cross-up to confuse the opponent on which direction/level to block. But it’s still blockable, just hard/tricky to block.

  2. Your unblockable setup doesn’t really work. Because on hit I can just mash reversal, jump, backdash or hold down+back and they will all beat King’s Moonsault Body Press. And on block if you do it early the game will not consider it as an unblockable and I’ll be able to block it and if you do it late, well I can escape it with all the options I mentioned above.

  3. Even if it worked on block, it couldn’t really be used as a reset because it knocks down on hit. And a reset is about interrupting a combo early to reset damage scaling and put the opponent in a situation where he needs to guess. The point of a reset is to get 2 combos instead of 1 long ass and scaled combo (so the point is to deal a lot more damage and build more meter). So in this case the reset would have to be on hit but then you’d be giving up 313 guaranteed damage and a possible true reset for 110 unblockable damage that knocks down and ends your pressure. Not to mention the opponent can easily escape King’s Moonsault Body Press if Windmill hits.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your ideas. This is something I’ve taught about a while ago but I gave up on it because I realized King’s unblockable was ass on hit or on block. It’s just not worth it if you consider all the ways your opponent can escape it.

I haven’t tried with other character’s unblockables though. In fact, I’m not even sure who else has a special move with unblockable properties…

I also thought I found a Yoshimitsu unblockable a while ago: Using EX suicide tag cancel which hits overhead twice then with partner running in hit low at the same time. But turns out the game blocks for you when 2 attacks of different levels hit at the same time. It can still be tricky to block because with the partner you can go low, low or low, overhead while Yoshimitsu is hitting overhead x2 with EX Suicide so the opponent kinda has to fuzzy guard it but it’s still very blockable. :frowning:

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1.I know that the nj.Hp does more damage and is equally simple but I chose the ABC because it has more lenient timing,
and is therefore more reliable.

2.Again I know what an option select is, I use Jargon very loosely and I do apologize for this
I’m simply using the term because they have similar applications:
With an option select your best option comes out so it’s sort of a safety net,
likewise tag cancelling acts as a safety net and gives you options although the game doesn’t select an option for you.

3.I used the term Reset loosely;I meant baiting the opponent to doing something;
and if your using King you can punish pretty much anything if you guess right.

3.This was done in training mode against CPU on autoblock,
so it is possible that the CPU tries to block the unblockable and actually has a window of activity.
I apologize if this is the case, no scene in my area and I have no partners either
I have to test my tech in training mode by myself.