That kind of mentality is why old main eventers hold onto their spots and young guys never get the elevation. It takes time to push these guys. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think Randy Orton is the next generation of top heel in the company. He’s 28 years old, has a great look, an ever improving moveset, and great heat. If you think he was pushed because of his name then you haven’t got a clue. The Orton name has never been anything above mid card to begin with so how are you pushing Randy based off it?
Your criticism of Cena is also pretty baseless. Crowd reactions don’t mean shit. If you let the crowd decide every move you’re dead in the water. Cena is a monster draw. He’s the best selling merchandise man since Austin in the late 90’s. House show attendance and PPV buys are both up (check the latest quarterly reports) with him on top of the company. The guys that are booing him in the live shows are also buying the PPV’s to see him. As for his in ring work, you might want to go back and watch his stuff from all of 2007. You think it’s a coincidence he had two viable MOTYC with Umaga in January and Michaels in March? Two engrossingly different styles and Cena worked both to perfection.
Posts like this are why I don’t bother putting an informed post into the wrestling thread. So much baseless garbage being thrown around, it’s just a lesson in frustration.
You’re kidding yourself if you believe all that load of garbage. It’s true that it takes time to build and adapt these guys into"mainevent"spots, but in Orton’s case they attempted before with orton’s first tittle run and it failed miserably. The only reason he even has the tittle now is because of a lack of “mainevent” depth on the Raw/WWE roster and because of his family name. Plus his"ever improving moveset"consist of headlocks,hold downs and easily the second worst finisher in the company next to Cena’s “FU”.
As for Cena, he’s only over with women and children and hardcore marks. Anytime the guy walks into a smart mark town his ass is booed…oh and believe me saying crowd raction means shit is just plain ignorant. The guy has a bad gimmick, cartoony promos and a even worst in rign ability. In fact here is a video that explains Cena in a nutshell [media=youtube]WGJNRT-eeU8[/media]
Take a look back at Orton’s first run in 2004. He was very over with the crowds and stood out from Evolution. His match with Foley at Backlash cemented his run going towards SummerSlam with Benoit. The big difference was that his legs were cut out from under him instantly after winning the title. They went the sympathetic babyface route with Evolution turning on him rather than let the guy run as a major heel (where all his heat was in the first place). Now look at his run this go around. He’s far more over as the champion. He got the right start at Cyber Sunday (notwithstanding HHH giving himself an ego boost) and he’s being booked strong. I don’t know where you come off talking about a lack of main event talent. It’s not like HHH hasn’t been there the whole time and is a proven commodity. Michaels plays a fantastic heel (take a look at his mini heel run vs Hogan a couple years back, it’s all brilliant stuff) if you want to go that route. They can brand swap without reason it seems as well. What they did was give their best young heel talent the ball while their best young face talent was injured. Crying about his finisher is just a waste of time as well. The RKO is booked as a strong finishing move. The FU and the STFU are booked as strong finishers. The look of the move isn’t as important as the booking behind it. You can probably count on one hand the amount of times the Pedigree has been kicked out of since HHH became a true main eventer in 1999. Not everything is Canadian Destroyer worthy.
You somehow disregarded the fact that he’s the biggest draw since Austin. If you have a sold out arena, with women, children, and marks cheering while “smart marks” boo him you still have a sold out arena. The numbers don’t lie and the numbers fuel the business success. The guy makes the company money. If he wasn’t a major draw and the crowds had the same reactions then we wouldn’t be having this little arguement because Cena wouldn’t be on the TV in the first place. Watch more of his PPV matches and longer main event TV matches. Heck watch the two matches referenced earlier. I’ve seen just about all this guy’s work and it’s very good. Keep in mind I watch WWE, TNA, New Japan, All Japan, NOAH, and Dragon Gate regularly. I’ve got a very wide base of reference as to what constructs a good match across varying styles and what makes a good worker. Cena is a good worker.
I think the video I posted went into great detail over the exact “flaws” of Cena and iv’e already gone at length about Orton’s short comings. Personally when I think of a good worker or a good wrester I think"Melenko,Tiger Mask, AJ Styles, Fallen angels…ect". Cena isnt a good worker, hes not even a wrestler…hes a walking infomercial.
Two 20 something dorks is your trump card for why Cena’s not a good worker.
The really sad part of that video is that they go off on Cena for being an infomercial while in the same breath dictating that he’s not a main event talent. You don’t main event any company if you don’t draw and you don’t sell merchandise. Today’s wrestler needs the mic skills, the look, the charisma, before he needs the ring work. It didn’t surprise me that they’re two Smart Marks who blow their load over guys like the late Guerrero and Benoit. Like most net fans, they put the ring work as paramount.
I don’t fault you for thinking junior heavyweight style is the only kind of good ring work. A lot of people completely disregard any other style because it isn’t fast enough or flashy enough. It’s the kind of people who wonder why Marufuji or KENTA will never get the ball to really run with it NOAH or why Kanemoto can’t be IWGP champ. They’re the ones wondering why Styles will never get another run as TNA World Champ. They’ve got the ring work and they may put on MOTYC every year until they retire but if they don’t pull down the ratings, and draw the houses, and sell the merchandise, and get the girls to come to all the autograph sessions, they’ll never be main event talent.
"The really sad part of that video is that they go off on Cena for being an infomercial while in the same breath dictating that he’s not a main event talent. You don’t main event any company if you don’t draw and you don’t sell merchandise. Today’s wrestler needs the mic skills, the look, the charisma, before he needs the ring work. It didn’t surprise me that they’re two Smart Marks who blow their load over guys like the late Guerrero and Benoit. Like most net fans, they put the ring work as paramount. "
Guerrero and benoit and the other guys I mentioned are treu wrestlers who loved this industry and were a credit to the biz…cena is a infomercial that was created to exploit the ignorance of the common fan who doesnt know any better. I think the issue I still have is that I consider the WWE a “wrestling company” when in reality it is a “entertainment/pop culture variety show” that really doesn’t care to much about in ring ability. At any rate Cena is not anywhere near main event talent, he cuts bad promos and wrestles bad matches. He sells merchandise but guess what…so did DX with there “return” and look how bad the new DX was. Technically the backstreet boys,britany spears/spice girls sold lots of records…does that make them talented musicians or artist? Does that mean that just because someone can sell merchandise they should headline WM and the the bet regardless of there talents.
“I don’t fault you for thinking junior heavyweight style is the only kind of good ring work. A lot of people completely disregard any other style because it isn’t fast enough or flashy enough. It’s the kind of people who wonder why Marufuji or KENTA will never get the ball to really run with it NOAH or why Kanemoto can’t be IWGP champ. They’re the ones wondering why Styles will never get another run as TNA World Champ. They’ve got the ring work and they may put on MOTYC every year until they retire but if they don’t pull down the ratings, and draw the houses, and sell the merchandise, and get the girls to come to all the autograph sessions, they’ll never be main event talent.”
The only style I completly disregard is the WWE style. Vince holds back so many moves and tells the wrestlers to"slow down" that by the end all we get is the same dull slow paced moves mixed in with 10 mintue hold downs coupled with bad workers. So look I don’t wanna derail this thread anymore, if u enjoy the WWE brand then good for u I wont hold u back. Let’s just agree to disagree for now…i dont wanna get some kind of warning for "trolling"or something lol.
At least in OVW wrestling school (and presumably others), they teach that you have to be able put butts in seats. The bottom line is to make money, so if someone like Cena is raking it in for Vince, they are going with him.
There isn’t one way to run a wrestling promotion. WWE takes a different approach than say, ROH, but it doesn’t discount it from being pro-wrestling. They go with the overall entertainment aspect of it, interspersed with solid-to-good wrestling here and there.
The WWE overlooks the"wrestling aspect" for more of the “glamour and buzz”. Hey it sells tickets but at what point do u say"okay we gotta perserve the integrity of the industry" and just say fuck it to gimmicky BS. At this rate the WWE is close to crowning some celeb WWE champ (remember David in WCW). Anyhow though Im reminded of this quote from somtime ago in regards to the differences in wrestling worldwide. “In Canada it’s a tradition, In mexico it’s a religion, In Japan its a sport and in America its a joke (insert pic of regal kissing vince’s ass0”.
It has always been a “joke” in the U.S., irregardless of what happens or what is booked. It’s just how the general American public views pro-wrestling.
It hasn’t gotten to the point where it’s all sports entertainment. RAW is the show primarily focused on the sports entertainment. SD/ECW is the wrestling-oriented shows.
Wrestlemania 24 is looking kinda bad this year Beth is not defending her womans title vs Mickie james=TRASH…Show vs Mayweather is not all that hype at all its very blah if you ask me…Michaels vs Flair is going to be good but I wish they fucking did this YEARS ago when Shawn was not in his 40s :(…Taker vs edge should be good unless they have edge run away from taker all day instead of wrestling him…Mitb should be good as always even tho the IC title is not being defended for the 5th year in a row…Batista vs Umaga imo will be 1 of the best matches at wm…I hope Randy Wins the triple threat because altho I am a HHH fan fo life and I dont like cena Randy winning would be awesome to see.
Two 20 something dorks is your trump card for why Cena’s not a good worker. 