This may hold some ground, I remember that Tekken 5 got more play time then Tekken 4 and a big difference between themw as that Tekken 5 came with a bench…but it could also be because Tekken 4 wasn’t that good and also that I only saw the performance of Tekken 4 about 4 years after it was already out.

You should do that! :angel:

Another problem is location… I don’t know… the Mary K’s in LV (the last time I checked) is in a known crime hotspot… hell I remember there was a fight outside a pool hall over a money match gone wrong, and the homeless people asking me for crackhead money… I think that place is shutdown…What is more baffling is a comic book store located next to it is still striving (I think they deal drugs on the side).

The only viable arcade like mentioned is in the University… and the only game with a crowd is MVC2… Third Strike, Virtua Fighter, and Tekken 5 barely gets play aside from the people waiting for the next marvel match to end.

Hell most of the players at college just bring their consoles and hook them up to big screen LCDs… so why not just make a business full of LCD screens and rent their usage to the players… like a large scale BYOC…

with a taco joint…

Quick Question: Because arcade cabinets are basically dead… does that mean they are cheap to purchase… or is it one of those… “Fuck its rare so lets sell it 3x its normal price?”

Every real arcade I’ve ever been to (not a mall joint or some shitty gameroom) has had stools. It didn’t seem to make a difference.

And if you’ve been to non-console tourneys, then you’ve seen American gamers stand up for enormous chunks of the day at a stretch.

Well that’s good n’ all then. Atleast people would have the option. None of the
arcades near me have this. But why would they, right—when they’re dying out?
Cripes! Someone loan me $3Million! Tah.

~K.

hmmm yes and no. At the time it was written, I was a big Saturn fan (it was the undisputed king of 2D fighters and ‘pure’ games), and I was disillusioned by the kinds of games a lot of my schoolfriends, and seemingly the public in general, were buying and lapping up. A game like NiGhts Into Dreams on the Saturn was a masterpiece, but got outsold by generic EA licensed titles and gimmicky 3D action games where the main talking point was the ‘realistic lighting’ or some other graphical milestone. It was around this time that it became acceptable and even trendy to play video games for young, fashion conscious men, weheras before the perception was that games were for kids and geeks. Now, I had nothing against video games becoming popular, mainstream or whatever you want to call it, it was the type of games that were pushed. Whilst games like Wipeout and Tomb Raider were good games, a lot of stuff was just shit, plain and simple, but because it had something ‘cool’ in it like Snowboarding or crashing expensive cars, they became status symbols. Here in the UK, thanks to great marketing the PS1 was aligned to brands and events from Skating to nightclubs and music. As I said, great adverts, and great at getting suckers who usually blow money on clothes and cocktails on games where they could pretend to be Dave Mirra or Colin McRae, but as someone raised on Mario, streetfighter, Amiga, hell even text adventures, I was all about the gameplay.

I agree with the general sentiment of the statement, then. It isn’t, of course, literally true, because my brother is spellbound by Final Fantasy XXXVII or whatever it is he’s playing, and of course games like Halo 3 and other popular titles show that people still get very excited and into good games. I just think that the audience is far, far broader and the concentration of people for whom games are a ‘big deal’ is a lot more dilluted. Why does this matter? Well, the concept of a game has to be broader in order to persuade as many of this HUGE demographic of people who buy games to pick this title from the sea of others. Back when games were played just by stereotypical gamers, the only thing to think about was quality enjoyable gameplay, an appropriate difficulty, and the presentation to be pleasing. Now, all sorts of other factors come in so as the game is appealing to both a 30-something casual player, and a kid for whom games are #1 hobby- the game has to conform to pop culture and be the coolest game, not the most fun. GTA was a good game although imo overrated, but is spoke volumes that when it came out the most common thing you heard about it was that you could beat up prostitutes and steal cars. And this was a GOOD game. I struggle to think of all the crap that came out that was bigged up for similar gimmicky ‘cool’ stuff when the gameplay was a shoddy afterthought, though Demolition Derby, Cool Boarders, Tunnel B-1, endless FIFA soccer games, and Loaded come to mind. You know that ‘Orange’ advert the play before movies in the cinema where the theme is that there is a great movie, but the execs want to butcher it with references to cell phones? Dunno if you’ve seen it but it’s the way I sometimes feel when I play a game- it could have been great but you get the impression sacrifices and adaptations have been made to accomodate the absolute maximum amount of purchases or fit the company’ marketing teams vision of what we shoul like.

A generation of light users who didn’t care enough to force designers to HAVE to make their games PLAY well to succeed wasa created by Sony, and now we have consoles like the PSP that can play MP-7 3D virtual reality video files of you mom getting pounded, but have no good games.

Apologies for going waaaaay off topic, but ironically this has contributed to why arcades have faded: **style over substance **in game design.

ON TOPIC:

On a side not ‘Edge’ magazine, one of the ‘serious, adult video game magazines’ here in the UK that specialises in long, mature articles about video games has a special feature this month about the ‘comeback of the Arcade’. In short, it talks about how arcades pretty much died in the 90s, but signs show they’re on a comeback in non-typical locations. The examples it gives are New York bars getting re-releases of Donkey Kong, Mario, Galaga and others for the Kidult market that want to watch Transformers and collect Pez candy dispensers. It also talks about machines like ‘Big Buck Deer Hunter’ that appeal to Jo Average, and cabinets like Gundam in Japan that do shit that you just can’t get at home. It talks at length about Gameworks, and has a paragraph about how crucial food and bathrooms have proven in winning back the customers. I’m still fairly cynical about hybrid businesses, as I believe like I said before that a good eating venue will make more money on more eating space than on trying to incoporate arcade money. I still think clean, working, sit-down cabs, plus a clean working bathroom, a soda machine and a vending machine is all you need to keep people in the venue playing games. The rest comes down to location, location, location. Near a school or college, or in a part of the city associated with going out and having fun, say the bar/club/theatre district.

The fundamental problem is titles- there just aren’t enough fresh games good enough to keep a busy arcade full of customers when their home consoles are getting AAA titles by the week. A great example of the home market overshadowing the arcade is the other day in my local arcade there were people sitting playing head-to-head T5DR on their PSPs rather than putting coins in the cabinet!

I’ve linked this article here once before, but I will do so again because I think that many of you are still not aware of the most important reason why arcades are dead in the west, and why they will likely stay dead for a long time to come:

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

If you don’t feel like wading through all that crap, I’ll condense it into a sentence: arcades are dead because western players have no clue how to play arcade games.

With versus games the situation is a bit different, because continuing in a versus title does not kill the appeal of the game (quite the opposite in fact).

But arcades cannot be sustained only by versus games, and until westernerns start realizing the essence of the arcade experience, nothing will change.

^^^^^

I love this article writer.

Off-Topic: I 100% agree with this. It’s the same reason why most of the gaming community think console shooters are equal to PC shooters, or think that Bioshock really is the greatest game of all-time. It seems to me that all people in the gaming community only care about presentation and tech. instead of things that actually matter such as core game mechanics, depth, and level design.

Also could I steal your sig. and use it for another forum? :slight_smile:

On-Topic: Well you have to think that restaurant won’t always have every seat taken, it’s rare that you have a full day in that type of business, so arcades would be viable IMO.

yeah go for it, not my words after all. I tried to find the article that was taken from so I could remember the guys name that said it. It was an interview in a UK magazine, ‘Sega Saturn magazine,’. It was with two guys from Capcom, that had been part of the team that made Marvel Superheroes, and they had worked on others. That particular magazine had a fondness for 2D fighters, and often had a Capcom game on the cover. They also had issues showcasing Import games like Radiant Silver Gun, and the fact that they covered games like that in detail makes them worth a few notes now. I can’t find the one with that interview though, otherwise I’d scan it cos I’ve had a few PMs asking for it, and I’d send it to you. If it shows up I will. But yeah, use the sig.

^^^^Offtopic: I’m sorry what was their problem again the Marvel Superhero guys

I have a pretty crowded arcade (CHQ) in a mall near me but the lack of AC makes it tough to stay in there more than half an hour.

damn Electrifying One, that insonmiac article was pretty GDLK. It’s funny that he’s talking about HEY! Arcade in akibahara, i was just in there last night too…his word for word explanation of the arcade is on fucking point. I’m going to miss this place :frowning:

edit: oops meant icycalm. i cant read -_-

most americans are too fat too sit on stools

The West is the only place there are arcades at all anymore. Why are they complaining. Hit up the Midwest (which is actually East) and try to find a quality arcade…

I think the OP meant Western Hemisphere, not Western part of the USA.

I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with a lot of that article. I don’t know it seems to easy to dismiss gamers who like console games as being “limp-wristed, Final Fantasy-playing, useless idiot(s),” without using any real form of argument to substantiate such a claim. (Other than just saying these players have a poor sense of judgment as to what makes a good game, which is a purely personal affair.)

I think some people have purchased some rather rosy colored glasses for looking back on the golden age of arcades. Arguments that those games were inherently superior because of the business model of the arcade overlooks the very real fact that vast amounts of arcade titles were terrible. There were knockoffs, there were glitch fests, and games that couldn’t imagine to hold someone’s interest on more than one play through. (Arm-wrestling anyone? Which in and of itself can be argued is just as “gimmicky” as many console games.)

Also making the argument that making a game more difficult, correlates somehow to it being better, is a statement born of fallacy as well. There were plenty of “easy” arcade games that were fun to play (am I the only one who liked the Punisher Beat-em Up? I beat that the first time I played it. Time Crisis series?), as well as tons of “hard” console games that were a blast to play.

The idea presented in that essay are presented eloquently, but are born of such egocentric “my generation is the best because I don’t like what it’s become” vitriol.

So before you throw out the baby with the bathwater just consider that perhaps the reason arcades are more enticing to many of us is because of the types of games we are into, as well as the “hardcore” status we have deemed ourselves. This however doesn’t invalidate the opinion of people who say, could care less about fighters, music games, and shooters.

I think people get to caught up in trying to argue between hardcore gamers and casual gamers which one is “right” about how games should be viewed. As far as finding that an exercise in futility I also believe that both viewpoints are equally valid. There are tons of people who “casually” played arcade games. There are tons of “hardcore” players who play console games, so the labels do little really to further any arguments other than drawing lines arbitrarily in the sand.

Arcades aren’t coming back, and it isn’t because people suddenly don’t know a good game when they see it. Consoles did play a huge part in the decline in arcades, mainly because they eventually caught up to the hardware in the arcades. (Well, basically speaking.) Instead of having a Double Dragon that didn’t really look all that much like the arcade version (but was still a blast to play) you now have VF5 on your home console, where you can gather with some friends and after the initial purchase, play to your hearts content. Pay-per-view is a model that works because movies and televised events are often things people are satisfied with seeing/experiencing once. However you would be hard pressed to get someone to pay to view the same thing over and over, they’d simply go out and buy the DVD and watch it at home, no?

Movie theaters are losing tons of money now a days, as many of the business are shutting down, merging, and switching to new hopefully cheaper ways of doing business. (Many theaters are making the switch to digital projectors, because replacing scratched film in older projectors costs money. However it remains to be seen if all operations can survive buying a fleet of these machines.) This is due much in part because people can now wait a few months and control not only their experience, but have one on some comparable level with what they would have had at the movie theater. (I’m not a moviephile myself, but I have friends who are, who have mini-theaters in their basements, projectors, seats, everything.) It’s when you introduce a new level of convenience, that it changes.

People always site Japan, and ask why does it work there, but not here? However what many also fail to mention is that compared to the rest of the world that Japan’s arcade scene is largely an anomaly. (I do realize there are places that have arcades that do well, but not with the uniformity that happens in japan.) I’m sure with research we could find tons of things that were at one time popular in both countries, but now remains popular only in one. So culture certainly also play a role.

All I ask is for people to think more deeply about those arcade memories, and not to simply dismiss people who don’t agree with them without considering the value they place on certain games certainly also has merit. I agree, having arcades would be awesome, there used to be one close to me (10 minutes or so) where I would go, mostly to play DDR at the time. (It was new to me and many of my friends, and I got pretty good at it.) Of course I think I played more DDR at home than I did the arcade, but the arcade was a fun place to go and show off and drum up crowds. (Once I was asked by an older lady if I took tap-dancing lessons after completing Boom-Boom-Dollar. I lied and said, “Yes, eleven years.” because I’m an ass like that sometimes, lol.) Erm, I digress, but what I’m trying to say is the status quo being something you do not like does not invalidate it as being without merit, because when it comes to what kind of scene and games you like, it becomes such choice based upon personal likes and dislikes that it becomes hard to argue. Sometimes opinions are worth arguing because you have a chance at changing someone’s mind, but trying to convince someone that they didn’t have fun when they played Final Fantasy when they actually did, is something I never understood. You can’t tell someone they didn’t enjoy what they did indeed enjoy, and I’m unsure why their pleasure at the home experience can not be also as valid as your experience at the arcade.

What would be more constructive, and possibly more productive would be to see what are the best ways of garnering interest from these new gamers who have different values to include them in the arcade scene, because they certainly couldn’t come back without them, so dismissing them, well, is counterproductive.

You’re more than entitled to disagree, this is just my opinion. (Before I get flamed or called names, heh.)

Overworld, you made several good counterpoints in your post, and i think anyone that outright FLAMES you for that is a fucking idiot anyway. But god damn, why can’t you just let us rock?? I mean fuck, we’re a dying breed anyway and you don’t see articles like that so often, let us sick to our damned biases, lol. :sad:

Sorry I can’t come up with a good counterpoint, but yeah, I’m pretty drun anyway so whatever. And I fail for being drunk and posting on srk. :looney:

there is a MVC2 cabinet at my local laundry mat for 25 cents a game…needless to say that the old man who is the janitor there is comp…he even knows the mag infinite but drops it cause his hands hurt…lol…but since 25 cents lasts for two hours that will be my arcade…

I think the arcade will make a comback…hell Jillian’s still has tons of og fighters…but it also has a food stand…so I guess the thing to say is combine food and games then you have a arcade…the arcade is located in a mall so if you where going to open one…open it where alot people are sure the drive-by at

I still plan on one day opening one…thats a side mission and I need business partners…coughsSRKcoughs

If you go to any “thriving” arcade, you see that fighters make up a minority of total games available. Most places I’ve been to have a healthy amount of redemption, racers, shooters (Time Crisis), and DDR-ish games. These games are generally the highest pay-per-play and require the most space. Along with the actual games, alot of places have food/drink area too. If you want fighters in arcades, you have to embrace/co-exist with the other 80% of non-fighting stuff that’s there too.

:rofl: It’s cool, I wanna rock too! I wish there was an arcade worth going to near me.

It’s not so much whether the gamer is having fun that’s the issue, it’s the type of fun, and the products that have to be made to capitalise on the demands for that type of entertainment.

At my apartment we have a DC, PS2, Wii, two of us have DS, the third guy has a PSP, and has also got a PS3, which he constantly buys games for. Stuff like ‘Folklore’ and ‘The Darkness’ is heavily dependent on cut scenes, text dialogue and video sequences to tell the story, and the plot takes a central part in entertaining the player. Regardless of whether these plots are fantastic or awful, it means that an awful lot of games now feel like the gameplay environments are just filler as the player looks to satisfy the criteria for watching the next cut scene. It’s like fucking Dragon’s Lair in 1986 all over again. Remeber everyone trembling over the disney-quality visuals? Anyone ever mention how fun it was to press a button that loosley corresponded with an on-screen cue in order to gasp watch another disney quality clip?

That these games succeed show that lots of people like nice graphics and stories. Games feel like the mainfestation of the producers secret dream to work in hollywood or make anime. I don’t for one second berate people that like stuff like this- it’s their money, and if they feel it is well spent and have fun, great. It just means that people like me who first and foremost want enjoyable, punishing and gripping gameplay that requires skill and concentration are marginalised because we don’t want to buy three interactive movies a month or enjoy games that you literally cannot fail to complete in less than a fortnight.

I find myself resorting to obscure Dreamcast titles and a lot of DS stuff to have the TYPE of fun I like. I can get into a Final Fantasy game as much as the next guy, but to me it’s a bit like going into a games shop and asking for the latest action game and being told to go to the movie theater- fun, but not what I want.

I think the danger is if games are made specifically for these people, they won’t go and play them. The clue is in you saying ‘different values’- these people like the kind of games that can only be played at home. As that article says, in an arcade ‘a cut scene means you are not dying, which means the operator is not happy’. You can’t get the involving plot that the typical home game is built around now in an arcade. You can’t get the ‘no continue’ pressure or the thrill of real competition in front of a crowd at home. They are two seperate forms of video game, and whilst titles like Big Buck Deer HUnter and DDR may appeal more to the casual consumer than typical shmups and VS fighters, I see the two formats as continuing to veer off in different directions.