Why the hate for Dead or Alive?

Well the main reason why DOA gets hate is this.

DOA 1: Heavily modified VF engine that played like crap. Really strange Bouncing boobs made it look like a gimmick game. (they had their own gravity even)

DOA 2: Vast improvement over the first. The game play was fast and it was easy to pick up and play. At he time it was very graphically impressive. However the Counter damage was so high it became who every would attack first would lose. Eliminating any rush down in the game at all. So you basically had two turtles sitting there waiting for someone to attack. Not fun!

DOA 3: Improved over 2 but the counter damage was still insanely high. The game was broken completely buy a guy who only played it for 3 days and found Hayate?s Cartwheel loop is invincible.

DOA1U: See DOA 1 Also less characters than the PS1 version

DOA2U: Fixed many of the problems DOA2 had in terms of frame rate and it looked great but it still had the problems that DOA 2 had in terms of it being a turtle match and high counter damage. Also DOA2u: spawned Justownin and he was the most annoying scrub ever. he hyped himself beyond belief only to get GGPOed in every tourney he’s in.

DOA4: I haven?t played but I hear it was pretty good. I can?t tell you myself though.

DOA4 is pretty good, I play it randomly online…

Alright lets break it down before shit gets out of hand.

DoA1 original: Kind of crappy game, rip the VF system, holds were distrubingly abusable (tho very low damage). Game was decent.

DoA++: Very rare upgrade of DoA1. Better graphics, had possibly the best hold system of ALL TIME. 2 way low damage hold outside of stuns, 6 way multiple direction hold inside of stun. Backdashing was actually useful, frame data useful. Good game but near impossible to play outside of emulators.

DoA2 Arcade: From what I heard it and Millenium edition were okay games. Double direction 4 way hold system. Damage was RETARDLY high. Backdashing sucked, SS was kind of clumsy, Ein and Hayabusa were pretty nasty.

DoA2 HC, DC, LE: First DC version was horrible, jump attacks pwned the game. Next one was better and more true to the arcade game. HC was also decent, introduced 3 way holds which absolutely SUCKED in Doa2.

DoA2U: This is actually probably the worst version of DoA2. Tengu was retarded to good, Stages were absolutely stupid and broken. Hayabusa on any stage with ledge or ceiling was absolutely disgusting to watch. Step was made universal for whatever reason and that got rid of jump (there by destroying spacing). Step wasn’t even useful. 4 way SINGLE DIRECTION (wtf?) holds. Backdashing still sucked.

DoA3.0: American release that was unfinished. SS is somewhat tweaked down (you can still evade but it’s kind of rediculess in most situations). Had more useful frame data. Introduced 3-way LOW DAMGE holds (doa2 holds were 60-100 dmg, doa3 holds do 40-60, get your facts straight). Hayate kind of pwn3d this game cause he was basically the only character that could play frame traps all day long. IMO still a good game for a rushed release. Also introduced the wall bounce which lead to nice wall combos for every character (except Leon lol, poor dude)

DoA3.1: Japanese version, for those that didn’t know JPN ver tournies BAN hayate cartwheel (kind of like ST akuma). Technically you can beat the cartwheel with certain characters but you can also beat ST akuma with certain characters, who cares? Still broken. The JPN ver. was really good. SS was very powerful and in particular SS attacks were powerful (Gen Fu power). Characters were made more safer and generally given aggressive tools. You recover quicker from BT situations in Doa3.1 which somewhat toned down BT combo madness. DoA3 does have some infinites but they are rather difficult to set up and take a hell of alot of work to trick your opponent into eating them, plus they are stage specific

DoA3.2: Tweaked JPN ver. for PAL. Cartwheel fixed/nerfed. SS somewhat toned down. Some other minor changes.

DoA4.0: Kind of a mixed bag here. This game still had Crouch Combo’s (which I liked) and though you could hold out of a wall stun (really gay) it had wall 2in1’s (which I liked). Unfortunately, people moaned and cried about these things because for whatever reason they felt this stuff was cheap. DoA4 system was a 4 way hold system with DoA2 dmg in out of stun holds and Doa3 dmg in stun holds. I honestly would have prefered the Doa3 system with 4 way, but whatever. Stun system tweaked so you had to hit more stuns in order to get a strong combo. Struggling was better (Slow escape). For whatever reason you can hold out of a non-critical stun (ie like after a Jann Dragon Gunner throw). Crush moves are rediculessly good in this game. BT stun recovery added. Effective Side Stepping removed from the system.

DoA4.1: Nerfed a lot of the characters moves that were felt abusable in online play. Got rid of wall 2in1’s and Crouch Combos. Needless to say another mixed bag of opinions on this one. Never the less, the tournament standard and played to this day.

DoA4.2: Supposedly announced, nobody knows what it’s gonna be like. Rumors of tweaking the crush system.

A lot of people have uninformed opinions on DoA, that can’t be helped because the game does have a rather flaky system in some area’s and iterations and frankly people don’t give a damn enough to educate themselves on the game. Not to mention DoA players (I mean like SERIOUS players) are kind of hard to find IRL, XBL spoils the community too much imo.

Honestly, if the DoA community does manage to some how pull in numbers from out of it’s ass it might become the next Smash. They already are in the Direct TV Championship Gaming Invitational/Series which has stupidly high money prizes for rather rigged settings.

DOA4 is awesome. The rest of them…not so much.

Ah yes, the old unevolved bandwagoned into truth idea that dead or alive is trash.

I, **THE GREASTEST DOA PLAYER IN HISTORY!/B] I, OWNAGE INCARNATE! I, THE FINAL BOSS IN THE GAME OF LIFE shall answer your question child.

DOAs main selling point to the masses was it’s sex appeal.Thus when ti was first played by the fighting game masses of street fighter the general idea that the game merely existed for seal appeal and possessed no depth was spreaded. The problem with the world is that only about 20% of the population actually form their own opinion in the rest of the 80% listen to the 20. So now, with obfiscated views of the game and expecting it to suck they looked upon previous doa’s as if they were trash.

Because DOA was drastically different from the other fighting game engines aroudn they labeled it trash. What they did not realize is that doa’s coutner system creates a universal system of stoping any strat. That the bases of its strings, stuns, and coutnering system was to emphasize SUPREME AND UTTER ADAPTATION.

Indeed, it can be said that all fighting games or games in general are just your mind vs. your opponents mind over a platio that emphasizses certain mental skillz. Chess emphasizing strategic thuoght and forsight fighting games emphasizing execution, decision making, and adaptation.

Sure all games emphasize adaptation. Knowing your opponents strat is how you fu ckin win. But the early incarnations of doa were designed in such a way that depth could easily be seen or created.

But they all had their TRUE FLAWS, the ACTUAL reasons they were bad games. Not the whole “it’s random” When a fight between two minds is nothing but random. Doa 3 wall game was broken. doa3.1 emphasized too much frame advantage usage which doesnt mix well along with the fact that the whole game centered aroudn knocking your opponent towards a wall and getting major damage. Bla bla bla bla.

Only when doa4 hit did everything get right. THe wall game was great, the wake up game was supremely tweaked, the engine was perfect. In fact doa4 is more balanced game than both t5 and sc3.

DOA4 counter system window got shortened. Although I’d like to say that people say that “coutnering is too easy in doa4” I’d just like to say that its not performing a counter in doa that should be hard. The same is with rock and cvs2, after a week or so you get used to it. It’s actually predicting the movement of your opponent TO counter that is difficult. And in doa at high level play it becomes quite so.

As far as breaking throws go in other fighting games throws are a mixup within themselves. You throw a person and they must predict which throw you used. In doa throws are not a mixup within themselves but a key part to a intrigal reoccuring mixup in doa. Basically their a punishing tool. If you know someone is gonna do a coutner you throw them. If your stringing somebody and you think their gonna keep blocking you interrupt and throw them.

Their are no broken strats and even low tier characters can win. Sure Hayabusa’s top but not as top as t4 jin t5 ninja n’ steev. Just enough better than all the characters to be the best, but not enough to be broken.

In fact in the latest incarnation of our little tier list they claim taht my character Hitomi is low tier and that they always thought she was close to top because I would consistantly and unexplainably crush every opponent with the upmost of ease. Sure when studying the strast I use she seems godly. But when analyzing her actually damage ration, risk/reward ratio, tools in comparison to other characters, counter strength etc. she is placed lowly. I don’t argue, I just OWN kn3wbz harder.

So in anycase doa4 is great but sadly the same idea that doa is trash stays. The masses simply look at doa4 with the saem prejudice they looked at the other gaems and say that it sucks. THe human mind is powerful, one can find reasons not to like anything if they have a presupposition.

So although doa4 is geniually a deep, fun, and all aroudn good game their belief system will stay the same.

Basically it’s a stand alone complex. The fact tha doa sucked was spreaded by respected plaeyrs and accepted by the masses. Now the only way it can go away is by a respected player telling the masses doa is good and then spreadnig it across the masses. the only thing that can beat a stand alone complex is another stand aloen complex.

In the end doa is a game with depth and potential. If you donot know we do have a on and offline scene that can be foudn at doacentral.com where we play all the time.

For a recent thread under this same category at doac, go here:

"Why does this get more respect than doa does?"
http://www.doacentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14474&start=25

I think my reply is on the second page.

YOU DARE INSULT THE ABSOLUTEN3SS OF MY POWER KN3WB?! The amoutn of OWNAGE I serve out in a single SECOND dwarfs the efforts of your whole entire life! The amoutn of power that I hold in my toenail is enough to engulf the entirity of your soul into the black abyss! Indeed, their exists times where an opponent has ascended to the doa heavens and faced me as my peer leaving me defeated to be banished into the darkest caves! But as I dwelled in those caves the caves themselves were OWNED! As I climbed the mountains back to the heights of which I once knew the moutains themselves were OWNED! And as I once again returned to the DOA HEAVENS and astracted my mighty revenge against my opponent that opponent has always been OWNED!

Indeed, my greatn3ss is an absolute truth unquestionable and undeniable as the illumination that we receive from the sun!


THINGS TO DO AFTER BEING CHALLENGED BY JUSTOWNIN:

1.) Put your feelings in safe place so they wont get hurt.
2.) Sign up for the rehab class Life after OWNAGE. Sign up quick, classes fill up FAST!
3.) Prepare a place on your wall for the CERTIFICATE OF OWNAGE that will be mailed to you soon.
4.) PREPARE TO BE OWNED!!!

DOA4 is alot like SC2 without the random broken/Overpowered characters…

Its fun, its deep but deep as far as mind games. Heck my lil siter could play DOA4, and mess people up because she’s good at mind games and or adapting to different play style’s where as she couldn’t play mvc2 in 100 years because of the rcrazy excution you must have.

Do4 is kinda like the World of warcraft of the fighting game world. Casual friends but old shool heads hate it…

Does the amount of execution required to learn a game define it’s depth? If that is so, then by your logic MvC2 would be considered deeper than 3s because of this when this is indeed not so.

DOA required just as much execution as it would take to learn soul calibur 2.

depth of fighting games is about possibilities.

DOA is about playing rock paper scissors over and over and over again.

MVC2 is about strategy and counter strategy, in which there are hundreds of potential strategies to employ and hundreds of counters to beat them all.

Good post.

That’s true. Hopefully the series will improve.

It’s a part of a whole.
And there are some ppl that do consider MvC2 deeper than 3s.

you just repeated everything I said…

Depth is different to different people, Chess is a deep game that requires very little execution , football is a deep game that requires more execution . Most people prefer games that require alot of execution rather than mental mind games.

If you had to watch someone fake someone out playing football or watch somone somelike connect 4 you’d choose football everytime. Hence why people love marvel so much…

I love mind games, My execution isn’t that great soo…If i can just fake a player out, or annoying them enough to make a mistake. I do much better…

Can someone plz repost the vid of justownin getting wrecked in tekken

lol, dunno how old this is but it sure is funny : [media=youtube]V79r4Eh-nqw[/media]

HAHAHA found the vid http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8524377290044991570

One of the main reasons that people feel makes DoA4 less respected than other games in it’s genre is DoA’s learning curve. Picking up the game for the first time and winning is not a challenge that is considered to be difficult. But on the same token the simplicity of DoA4 learning curve makes it harder to master.

Since the basics of playing DoA are simple that means it would be hard to find an opponent who has absolutely no idea what they are doing. Even if a player studies all of the advanced techniques that player still wouldn’t gain a significant advantage from the average DoA player.

The purpose of this design is to create the most blanaced fighting game ever by hypothetically leveling the games playing field across the board.

So how do you master a game where even the most advanced techniques give you only a minor advantage?

For these reasons people either love or hate the game. Love it for it’s simplicity or hate it because it’s hard to master.

lol at justownin, learn a real game, and stop boasting because your crap.

Let us not forget in our analysis of DOA the utter garbage that is the community for the game. Mostly made up of competitive fighting gamer dregs that drifted away from other more solid communities and XBOX live scrubs, it is truly a pinnacle of waste and idiocy rarely seen in the competitive scene.

I remember my first time visiting the DOACentral site and browsing the forums. I noted a 500+ reply thread about “Hitomi dancing NAKED in Japanese ending” while, when I went to browse the strategy and character technique sections, I found bare bones leavings that mostly had valuable contributions from casual DOA players hardcore into other games, like JOP or Semi.

I believe the last time I checked the forums were still in that same sorry state. The character sections there are a joke. Many of the combos posted are not guaranteed and you have to sift through pages of waste to get to anything worthwhile, and people posting real strategy or technique with characters is rare indeed.

Compare that to real competitive gaming communities, like Tekken, where multiple posts are made about practically every aspect of every character, combos are rated by damage, difficulty, and usually condensed into a sticky topic at the forum, and constant strategy discussion is debated. Compared to that, the DOA community is shown as what it really is, a worthless pile of refuse.

:rofl:

People hate DOA for 2 main reasons:

  1. The game still sucks.

  2. The community is ass.

Every time tourney organizers give the game a chance, nobody shows up. It’s had a few high-profile events, thanks to sponsorships, but the competitive scene just bitches without doing anything.

I second that.

QFT

JO, why are you posting? You do know even if you post something good and reasonable, people STILL won’t give a damn cause it’s JO saying it. The same JO getting raped in the Tekken vid a couple posts up. The same JO that gets pwned in almost every fighting game ever made outside of DoA. Do you not realize you hurt the game MORE when you post?

This wins the thread, Walmart was selling it for 10 dollars and I still didnt buy it.