Mm I try not to care about tiers no more, cause I usually prefer when I choose an different character instead of using one that everyone uses. Makes playing/learning fighting games more fun, although I do get angry sometimes when I lose against mashers, mainly at myself though for falling for the tricks.

Also I usually look at tier lists to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each character. Makes learning match ups easier that way.

I was sure your post said st.HK before, not HP, but maybe I just misread it.
Yeah Chun st.hp is 6f, it’s a great poke, but it’s not the same type of poke.
Chun’s st.hp is used mostly as a whiffpunisher and to stop people from jumping, it’s weak against low pokes though.
If you’re going to compare that then you should compare it to Sakura c.mk which is 5f and combos into hp sho almost every time.
Sakura st.hk is used as a zoning normal that will stuff pretty much everything, it’s also 0 on block so you can keep pressuing with it.
Chun’s equal to Sakura st.hk is her st.mp which is 7f and +1 on block, this is the poke that Chun is allowed to just throw out and zone with.

But Chun having better pokes is because Chun is a poke/zoning type of character, Sakura is a rushdown character who still has very good pokes, some of the best in the game.

Guys check out my first vid for my thoughts on EVO Let me know what you think plz. Thanks

Link: [media=youtube]-gwLm9f5TsA[/media]

So now we know why Sakura is considered bad…If tier lists are based on tournament results…then it’s not Sakura but the players who are “low tier”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Monster post but worth the read:

Sakura is not a character good players are drawn to in general for some reason.
She’s a character designed to appeal to a certain crowd, not a character designed to be strong.
Sakura’s appeal is more towards the fan-crowd than the hardcore players.
Good players in general are more drawn towards the better characters, since they want to win ofc.

So a character like Sakura who is perceived as low tier by most will not get a lot of attention from top players. Even if she does get attention she is still a very difficult character to learn correctly due to high execution barrier and low abuse-factor. Sakura is indeed strong when you have “mastered” her basics like her sho fadc combo, what resets to use, how to pressure, how to poke, shunpu loop etc. etc. But even then she’s not as strong as say Rufus who is both easier to learn and do well with, so unless you’re drawn to the character to begin with you don’t have a reason to put more time in for less payoff.

I speak for myself when I say that I definitely consider myself to be a hardcore player rather than a hardcore fan/casual player. I have always liked Sakura as a character, she looks good and she has a nice personality, her unrefined fighting appeals to me aswell. Out of all the charcters in SFIV she’s definitely the one character that has always shown the most appeal to me, but in vanilla she was simply not good enough. So instead I opted for Chun in that game, who I also enjoy both gameplay and design-wise, when super came out I really thought that Sakura’s changes had made her a good character though there were others who thought diffrently (Saber for example, I think Destin too).

Sakura’s gameplay is the most fun to me out of all the characters, you can be very free-flowing and express yourself easily when you play her. You can mix your offensive up in many different ways so you’re not locked down in how you have to approach a situation.
Her high execution barrier and her combos both look nice and deal a ton of damage, that’s something I enjoy in a character as well. She doesn’t even have to be played offensively in plenty of matchups (though I’m very drawn to playing offense), but the option is there to turtle it out if you feel like it

Her poking game is very nice too since you can do many different things with it, zone with st.hk, os with st.lk, confirm with c.mk, fish counterhits with c.mp, stuff with st.hp, trick them with c.hk etc. When it comes to jumping she’s got plenty of good options there as well, j.mp beats pretty much everything air-to-air, j.hp has a great hitbox to beat anti-airs, j.hk has long range so you can hit them if they’re delaying their anti-air expecting you to use j.hp, on top of that she has her air shunpu which changes her angle heavily, has a great hitbox (even better than j.hp), does chip damage and gives a ton of blockstun AND knocks down on hit.

Her specials also have many different uses, the only special that isn’t used much is regular otoshi, all of her other specials have different uses for each strength of the special:
lk shunpu - used as a meaty attack, used for block pressure, combo starter, builds meter, anti crouch tech, okizeme crossups and shenanigans
mk shunpu - jumps fireballs, -3 but range safe, chip pressure, potential to catch jumpers
hk shunpu - jumps fireballs, only -2 on block, +1 on hit and combos on ch/break, easy chip pressure, high potential to catch jumpers
ex shunpu - combos into u1/u2, +4 on block and leads to combos/resets on hit, leads to untechable knockdowns, good move for pressure

lp sho - anti air, fireball trap, whiff punisher, combo ender into u2, builds meter, okizeme shenanigans
mp sho - anti air, fireball trap, punishes certain moves on block such as Akuma c.hk, combo ender for great okizeme, fadc combo
hp sho - anti air (good against people straight jumping your fireballs or backjumping), punishes certain moves on block, combo ender for good okizeme and damage, fadc combo, combos into u2
ex sho - has invul through the startup, used to stop pressure, ume-shoryu, fadc combo, combos into u2, combo ender for easy damage

lv1 hado - it’s a fireball, can be used to fireball trap with her shoryus, goes one screen length, c.mk x hado on max range = pressure and chipdamage, good for corner pressure
lv2 hado - c.mk x lv2 hado can be used as a shenanigan tactic to apply more pressure than you’re actually allowed to do against defensive opponents, good for meatys
lv3 hado - excellent as a meaty after two otoshi hits, deals 30 chip damage, gives huge frame advantage when done meaty, completely safe as a meaty
EX hado - never dissipates, does good chip damage, great as a fireball trap, forces the opponent to act, good frame adv on block, covers a lot of space

Otoshi - combo ender, can be used as a sheningan block string extender, untechable knockdown, low jumping over fireballs
EX Otoshi - punishes fireballs when guessed, covers lots of space and can be + on block, good as a quick get-in against certain characters (Dhalsim and Guile for example)

Air Shunpu - LK/MK/HK are used to mess up anti-air timings what strength to used depends on distance, straight jump hk shunpu is oood shoryu bait and can hit xup in the corner, can it xup when spaced right, corner escape, after ex shunpu this has the most wall carry I think
Air EX Shunpu - Only used as a corner escape, recovers faster than regular air shunpu

f+mk - it’s an overhead, has lots of range and a good hitbox, can counterpoke lows, combos on counterhit, makes the oppoenent react in certain ways (jump, special, poke etc.)

So what I want to say is that I concider myself as a pretty good player, and my opinion is that Sakura is a strong character that is heavily underestimated. When I play Chun for example in Super I don’t feel that she is a stronger character than Sakura, nor a weaker one, in my eyes they are equally good. Chun is by most lists concidered B-tier and I can agree with that, so I would put Sakura in B-tier as well. The reason she’s not put there on tierlists is because nobody who is known has put the time necessary into her and shown results for everyone to see. If someone like Justin/Sanford/Marn etc. would put down the time needed to really learn Sakura and then play her in tournaments there is no doubt in my mind that they would do very well with her. Not only because they are great players, but because they are great players and Sakura is a great character, though difficult. Until someone like that steps forwards be it in Japan or in the staes, people will think that Sakura is low tier, but she is far from it in reality.

I think Skatan has it exactly right again. Sakura is a definitely a viable character with plenty of potential, but unless you really enjoy playing her, there are probably better characters for you.

I have always looked at Sakura as somewhat of a jack-of-all-trades. While she isn’t necessarily the BEST character for rushdown or zoning, she has a wide variety of options and tools that make her a solid all-around character. You do have to know what you are doing though, don’t expect easy wins at any level of play. As my first character in my first SF, Sakura forced me to learn how to combo, how to punish, how to space myself, how to pressure and much more. While it wasn’t always easy and I’m still no pro, playing Sakura taught me the game and has been a hell of a lot of fun.

As far as tiers go, players as well as the community simply haven’t given Sakura a chance. If a pro puts the time and effort into truly learning her, I agree they would definitely do well. Until they do however, Sakura will likely continue to be considered low tier.

well beeing considered low tier makes people ragequit in endless^^

yesterday fought in a 6 slot as the 6.th and each player who lost left…

Many underestimate her Power, sure she is no abusable character.
But she has imho great zoning and offense.

Sure she can’t deal much dmg at distance, but that doesn’t mean she can’t hold her self on distance.
Sometimes just make them come to you. We have one of the best anti airs in the game, so Air to ground usually is not an option and on the ground she can easily hold her self, if you can play footsies.

What makes her really good though is, that she is good without an Ultra.
She can make an enemy pay with 300-400 dmg for a mistake.

While i often just get punished with just an Uppercut or some low dmg (100-250dmg) Combos.

well beeing considered low tier makes people ragequit in endless^^

yesterday fought in a 6 slot as the 6.th and each player who lost left…

Many underestimate her Power, sure she is no abusable character.
But she has imho great zoning (defense) and offense.

Sure she can’t deal much dmg at distance, but that doesn’t mean she can’t hold her self on distance.
Sometimes just make them come to you. We have one of the best anti airs in the game, so Air to ground usually is not an option and on the ground she can easily hold her self, if you can play footsies.

What makes her really good though is, that she is good without an Ultra.
She can make an enemy pay with 300-400 dmg for a mistake.

While i often just get punished with just an Uppercut or some low dmg (100-250dmg) Combos. The Dmg reduction in super certainly helped her playstyle.

last weak i did beat someone with an Full Screen Ex Air Tatsu, those guys weren’t even aware that it is a fullscreen punishment.

Yeah I kinda got off point a bit. I did say s.HK but damn that move looks faster than it is, or maybe Sakura’s looks slower than it is? But Chun does have an array of long reaching pokes that are pretty fast, just trying to make the comparison between them in that sense.

All I was trying to say is that Sakura’s s.HK isn’t as good as someone was making it out to be. 10 frames hmm, it doesn’t “feel” that fast to me :looney:

Now to read that long ass post :stuck_out_tongue:

Sadly today, I did my very first ragequit with Sakura, I hope i never do it again. I was just too angry because of the randomness of the player, I was nearing a perfect and tried to go for chip with lk.shunpuu loop then BAM player mashes out ultra, I eat it and it hurts. I then thought to myself that it’s OK I have life lead still so I’ll sit back and relax, 10 seconds later I got impatient and kept doing random jump in’s which eventually cost me the game. To make things worse the person taunted me a lot as well. Annoying, but oh well, valuable lesson for me I guess…

In the end, I ended up apologizing cause I felt bad.

well exactly that is the mistake just go back and turtle

it isn’t easy getting in on sakura, without taking (chip)-damage.

and if you want to go for chip use lp shou! its way faster, does more chip (no way enemy can react to it) and has “short” recovery.

just for the record!
Otoshi does Chipdmg too!

I didn’t say it was fast. In fact, I implied that it was slow.

Reason i play sakura since alpha and made her my main, is she Has to put in so many more hits then say a ken or ryu who with one combo can drain 50% of your life , she just has to Land to me 2X more hits then the rest of the class, and she has less Life

But nothing like owning a Turtling Rog or a blanka or even more a ryu and ken… my fave is when you destroy a Gief with her , priceless

and when an otoshi lands and they get whooped across the Screen with 3 over head whoomps into the corner and lose composure and eat a ex tatsu to a ex Upper cutt… priceless

“ex.Tatsu to a ex Upper cutt”

That’s one ridiculous waste of meter there.

edit: actually this should probably go into the match-up thread.

So after reading this thread a lot more, I have something I want to put out there. Imo, I think Sakura is a very underratted character. I’m about to put up these vids of some of my fights. Ive been playing Sakura for a about two year now. I’ve had my ups and downs with her trust me and sometimes I even think about switching. However I want to say for some reason I never do. I just got online a couple of days ago and I have been beating the hell out of a lot of players I have fought so far. Most of them play characters that are said to be stronger than Sakura, and I’m at a disadvange. SOme of my fights have been really close, some have been blow outs (which I have won). One thing someone said on here is that Sakura has not been given a fair chance, and that the stronger characters are onlu played. I believe this to be true. Now, we all know what happen in the fight between Gamerbee and Justin Wong. Everyone thought Adon sucked because of what Justin said in a video. Now everyone one who plays low tier characters seem to use that as an reason and not an excuse to play who they like. I have a better one. I dont remember what EVO it was, but it was Japan vs USA. A japanese player beat the whole USA team in 3S with Twelve. A character he liked. USA played Yun, Chun LI, Ken, Urien, and someother charcter. Justin Wong, Ricky Ortiz, Alex Valle, and two others. And they were beaten by one of the worst charcters in the game, and they are the USA’s beat. Kuroda beat Justin Wong and Ricky Ortiz with Q. We all saw that I hope. Now, with that being said, has anyone seen the DSP vid after Justin’s loss to Gamerbee? If not watch because he makes very strong points. One of the things he say is that the USA plays the top tier characters and ignores the others seeing them as useless. We dont take out the time to learn the other ones at all. In 3S this is true and in most games this is true.

Sakura is a prime example of this. She is not the best character in the game by any means. But she does have a lot of potential. On jump in with the right combo she AMAZING dmg. ON punish she does AMAZING dmg. All you have to do is touch your opponent once and you can crush them and get right back into the fight. In one of my videos Im about to put up when I was fighting a Dee Jay player will show that. It took time for me to understand how he fought and when I landed a big ex. shou into a fadc combo I was right back in it and he didnt have a clue on what to do next and I won the round. All it takes is one move or the right combo or mixup. Like other Sakura players, I’m tired of hearing about Sakura’s fireball. She is not a fireball character and has never been one. She is rushdown and like most rushdown characters she RUSHES DOWN! She imo is the funnest character to play when she is on. She is the Makoto for Street Fighter 4 to me. I cant wait to see what the Japanese players do with her and what will be found.

Hi,

Some thoughts I wanted to share :slight_smile:
I’ve been maining C.Viper in Vanilla and Ibuki in Super since day one and recently started playing Sakura (2 weeks ago).
I play C.Viper and Ibuki pretty well but still always felt they were difficult and risky characters.
Then I switched to Sakura to try something fresh, read Destin’s guide, learned plinking and praticed her mix-ups and I feel she’s in a whole other classv than my previous chars.

I feel she has a lot of tools to deal with pretty much anything, a lot more than Viper/Ibiki which are considered mid tiers :

  • Incredible damage and stun output
  • Very good mix-up game
  • Very safe set-ups !!! (seems safe on all combo starters: lk tatsu, EX tatsu, HP shou thanks to FADC)
  • strong and easy anti-air
  • Pretty good spokes
  • Ok projectiles to relieve fireball pressure
  • Incredible whifs punishers (BnB at close range, c.mk to shou at mid-range and even better with FADC)
  • fullscreen fireball punisher (EX otoshi)
  • Very good cross-up and air-to-ground
  • Instant overhead (j.HK)
  • Good focus attack
  • Incredible turnaround potential without ultra/super

Eversince I switched to Sakura, I’ve been doing really well against my friends. When I used to lose 4-6 , I now win 8-2 (sometimes 9-1) on many match-ups. They will get used to her Ex tatsu mix-up eventually but I’m confident she can still do very good without it.

Anyway, I’ve trained a lot with C.Viper (still my main char), Ibuki, Cody, Makoto and Sakura. I can definately see C.Viper/Cody/Ibuki mid, and Makoto being (really) low.
But sakura? to me she’s way above all my other chars !!!
I really love playing with her, her rushdown style really fits me well. I hope to see more of her in upcoming tournaments :slight_smile:

oops, double post…

check out this cool sakura vid

[media=youtube]I5SyMHRogz0&playnext=1&videos=iDM7r5XRyvg&feature=recentf[/media]

well spoken goobmba wat up man