I agree with the first paragraph, it’s sad but true. I bet they don’t have a clue of what really umk3 can do as a fighting game.
As for the second one, the people who really like umk3, like it for what it is. The game needs no improvement.
Just play the game and stop complaining, or don’t play at all
Regarding frame advantage/disadvantage, move priority, mix-up, footsies, the importance of pokes not being part of the game plan, this couldn’t be further from the truth regarding UMK3. As a matter of fact, all of them were highly prevelant in MK2 as well, especially since MK2 is so limited in gameplay, it basically boils down to nothing BUT spacing, footsies, and move priority.
UMK3 not only has all of the above, but an insanely intense rushdown game as well. They may be done differently than in Street Fighter, but make no mistake, they exist…and not just sometimes, but at all times. Spacing and footsies, pokes, baits, knowing move priority, frame counting, frame advantage, just frames moves… they’re all there and you need to account for all of them in a match and apply them to your game plan, otherwise you’re dead in the water.
In terms of the block button, I’m not understanding what the problem is. It’s different, but far from unnatural. A block button is very dynamic. It creates dynamic defensiveness, where you choose when and where to block. Instead of being stuck in block animations while playing footsies, I can simply release block and back up and WALK AWAY from my opponent, opening up opportunities to attack, opportunities to bait by making myself look vulnerable, etc. It’s dynamic and it’s outstanding.
I am, however, glad you find the MK crowd to be friendly, we always try to be. =)
I remember I read an interview with Noritaka Funamizu, one of the lead designers of Street Fighter II: WW. In the article, which you can read the important part here: http://fightingstreet.com/folders/variousinfofolder/interviewfolder/sfii_funamitsu/funamitsu3.jpg
he states that combos and their timing were actually an accident… a game bug. So to call UMK3 an accident may be true, as is saying that Ed Boon did not know what he had, what he developed or how to continue with it… you must also say that Street Fighter and it’s outstanding combo system of move cancelling was completely by accident as well. Without that accident, Street Fighter would never be what it is today… and I’m glad both accidents occurred.
You can love a game and still realize it’s not “absolutely perfect” and that a better, more refined version of it can be made.
That’s pretty common sense…
2in1’s being a bug is common knowledge. The genre is filled with bugs and glitches that end up being good. Guilty Gear’s jump installing? Another example of a glitch that was kept intact.
The difference is that when the developers are not complete idiots, they can see that some “accidents” turned out to be good, and keep them on purpose in the next games.
But since the MK developers are a bunch of buffoons, they didn’t learn anything from that wonderful accident that is UMK3, and ignored it.
The way I see it, UMK3 and MVC2 are extremely similar in so many ways it’s amazing really.
Both are “good accidents”. Both have competitive play that somehow survives all the crap you can think of, infinites bugs and whatnot. Both have “bullshit wars” between the characters and huge damage combos that can be really really hard to do. Both have small but passionate communities. And both are probably going get disappointing sequels 
So, because Boon(who, BTW, the hardcore UMK3 and MK2 communities are both skeptical about making another good MK), doesn’t know a good thing when he’s got it, means you should crap on the GOOD game? Instead, grab a stick and start throwing down… your time will be better spent playing UMK3 rather than hating on it because the sequel may suck…
UMK3 was 10-15 years ahead of its time… for many players, they are just now beginning to give the game a first look and see it’s competitiveness… so instead of it being an “old” game, while it is 15yrs old, it’s still new to many people.
No need of an “improved” or “refined” version of umk3 to be done… like I said “people who really like umk3”. That’s common sense to us too 
We don’t want umk3 hdr, we HOPE a decent new game, at least. Something than can be played for some time, not be forgotten within months because of its stupid and broken gameplay.
The game (umk3) works just fine with its infinites and 100% combos, they’re not accessible to every player.
Not even all the top tier players can hit them all the time either… that’s how much skill they require.
Not just the required skill… let’s not forget the situations don’t come that easily. Because of the fast pace, balance (yes, balance), mind games and rushdown way of playing, you don’t see those combos often in hi level matches.
Hacking the UMK3 ROM has happened but it hasn’t been done too much and not by people that were focusing on competitive play. Ultimate Mortal Kombat Trilogy is a hack of UMK3 for Genesis with a ton of characters and frills added but I don’t know if the gameplay is worth anything.
Hacking the UMK3 arcade rom is not an easy task. I’ve tweaked gameplay and graphics in SNES and NES games with some success. I tweaked graphics in the MK1 arcade ROM (I wrote my name on Raiden’s chest). But effectively making changes to the UMK3 ROM has always been outside of my capabilities. I just can’t figure out how to do it well. I don’t understand it when I start picking it apart. I think there is some weirdness there because of the CPU they use. It has a ton of odd capabilities in its instruction set.
I started building a fighting game engine myself as well. The basics of the gameplay were in there and the advanced scripting of the characters was coming along very nicely. But I stopped because I would like to make something I could publicly release for people to play and that isn’t really something I can do if I rip off all the graphics from MK games. There is no good source of new graphics for an MK style fighting game.
It’s only pointless because you want me to say “You’re right, the block button is worthless.” I can’t say that because it’s absolutely not true. And for the record, UMK3 was not a good, competitive game, by accident. When you make a crappy game, like MK prototype, and then have a bunch of players PAY to beta test it for you in arcades, and then revise the game 5 or 6 times before a final version of a now less crappy game, all that testing did not result in an accident.
MKII built upon MK’s engine and gameplay flaws, and they added things. It still wasn’t perfect, but it was a whole lot better than MK, and even MKII had a few critical gameplay revisions. MK3 again, built upon MKII’s flaws, which were improvements over MK’s flaws. So now we’re three full releases deep, each with arcade revisions, based on glitches, infinites, and flaws found by the testers (players), which resulted in UMK3. UMK3 is the least different change to gameplay for any 2D arcade release with its own title. It’s still not perfect, but it’s the closest thing to a perfect 2D as there ever was. Ninja Grinder is extremely passionate about his view, but as an even more hardcore UMK3 player, I have to respectfully disagree. If I could edit the source code for UMK3, I believe I, and a number of collaborating players could make it into a masterpiece overnight.
Remember, the hardcore competitive MK community agrees the dev team is a bunch of clows, and has a lot of anxiety behind this new game. We don’t have nearly 100% confidence in them making a good game, but including the block button is not one of those reasons. Eliminating the Run Button is. Run was in more 2D MK’s than it wasn’t. It worked perfectly in MK3, UMK3 and MKT, but they ruined it in MK4. I don’t like how you just drop the initial attack on the block button and then just go for the big picture, but I agree, it is the big picture that’s important. Block is important, and unless you truly understand the value, you might tend to think it’s stupid. I would say you just need to play some more. There’s another recent post where I explain the block and run buttons thoroughly.
We have spent some time working on UMK3 style gameplay using various platforms.
See above
This is true for the most part. There are a handful of players who are combofiends and infinite whores, who can basically pound them out any time, but generally, their tactical ability is low and they can rarely legitimately bait good players and score these big infinites. There’s only a handful in the game that are absolutely dangerous.
that is because japan has better internet infrastructure and arcades
they can live with shitty netcode
QFT!
I’m still surprised that people complain about the block button, or don’t understand how important thae run button is. I know it’s just ignorance, but still you’d think when people make absurd claims and assmuptions, they’d have at least done their research on the subject. Could you imagine playing UMK3 without run or the block button? The game would be shit in comparison.
Somehow you understood the exact opposite from what I wrote.
When did I say anything negative about MK mechanics in this thread?
The only problem I mentioned was the developers themselves.
This is not the 1st time you wrote this explanation.
But what you are saying is this: "They learned from their mistakes from game to game, revision to revision and they hired testers"
I’m sorry but this sounds like BS to me.
How do you know what they knew about their own games?
The only true evidence we have is what works and what does not.
Sure some things got fixed, but some didn’t, and some are so silly it makes you wonder how much testing they did.
[media=youtube]d70XBLosghU"[/media]
[media=youtube]fjSVZ1olTrE"[/media]
[media=youtube]sfbg3EtNvA4"[/media]
I’m not saying that they didn’t improve the series from MK1->UMK3. Of course they did. But the fact that UMK3 was good enough to get from “not competitive” to “competitive” is by random luck, and the developers cannot recreate it unless the goddess of MK luck will bless them again.
I don’t care if a fighting game has a block button, or a run button, or a combo breaker or jiggly boobs, as long as the final product stands the test of competitive play.
These aren’t game breaking and you won’t see them that much in an actual match. You’ll see the UMK3 corner jab infinite more often than the other two though. It would be like me posting Fei Longs infinite on Juri and say that SSF4 had no testing. I really don’t think you’ve played UMK3 much, based on what you’ve said.
I gave examples not based on how they affect high level play, (You don’t see most of the BS in UMK3 play just because the top tier’s BS is even more practical and more dangerous, just like in MVC2) but on how they at least seem easy to find when you are paid to test a game, or to prevent from happening when you are developing one.
“Hey maybe we should try Liu Kang’s Bicycle kick over and over again to check if it combos to itself? Nah!”
“Hey we had this thing in MK2 where you can slow your jabs and it will get them stuck. Maybe we should make sure it won’t happen in this version as well? Nah!”
And to answer your question Capcom did screw up big time when they made a known SF4 infinite valid again in SSF4 after fixing it in a SF4 patch. But at least they fixed it yet again.
Because that’s what serious developers do. They sometimes screw up, but they fix their mistakes.
Look at GGXXR blue and red version for example-
"In actuality, two versions were released, the first being referred to as “Red Reload.” Red Reload contained many errors and was quickly revised and redistributed, this time widely called “Blue Reload.”
But since MK developers don’t really care, I’m not surprised to see the same mistakes over and over again.
Geeeeeeeeet ober heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer
Tataki, so how are you answering “Why is Mortal Kombat considered clunky” as opposed to just repeating over and over how you have no faith in the MK Development team?
I think the MK players have spoken for themselves a few times:
if you have something useful to say about MK’s mechanics, think it’s clunky, or think it isn’t then cool, if not, don’t derail the thread.
Yeah, I can respect your opinion too, Shock. I just embrace the game as it is, I see no need for banning stuff in competitive play, those examples tataki posted don’t ruin the game (well, who cares about mk2 anyway? lol). And that cyrax AT inf is very impractical and unlikely to happen in a serious vs match, you don’t see that stuff in a normal cyrax matchup.
The fluency of umk3 is remarkable, I don’t understand why someone would consider the gameplay as clunky.
I never tried to answer the thread’s title. I don’t even know what “clunky” means in this concept.
But after the title he did ask:
And someone said “the block button is bad”, Shock replied and justified the block button, and I replied to Shock stating the the mechanics themselves were never the problem to begin with, because the developers just do whatever they feel like doing, and they themselves don’t know what is “good” or “bad”.
The one thing you can claim though, is that even if MK9 turns out competitive, all the known changes will make its style of play very different from UMK3, and players like Shock won’t like it. That one I can accept.
I never said they ruin the game. I just gave them as examples of lack of testing. If there’s some bad bug in a game and you can also find it in the sequels, it means the developers didn’t know about it or didn’t bother fixing it.