Why is kara demon good?

[pherai]

Lol, 2nd vid even Urien was doing a low short. That’s why he got caught. Kara demon vids are like World’s scariest police chases, they never show the ones that get away :lol:. It’s a nice setup, its jus gimmicky and random. You can definitely jump straight up. Tough for me to record it since I’m the only one in a decent radius who can do a kara demon but as soon as I can find someone with some decent reflexes to jump when the screen FLASHES and gives it away I’ll post it.

Interesting, you KNOW it can be jumped out of on reaction, but you can’t record it.

I’d love to know why the Yun in this video just doesn’t jump out in the very beginning

[media=youtube]tVkKoLnEDCY[/media]

Is there a phantom low short in there too?

[System_1]

Seeing how there’s actually a question doubting the kara demon, is it in fact escapable? and can you prove it.:wonder:

[Therapist]

Kara demon at point blank is like Hugo’s gigas breaker. After the super flash, there’s nothing more you can do if the demon was done properly. You have to jump before the super flash.

[Ryad]

seriously… I thought this was already common knowledge

[pherai]

Seeing how there’s actually a question doubting the kara demon, is it in fact escapable? and can you prove it.:wonder:

Look at the frame data: http://ensabahnur.free.fr/Baston/index.php?page=gameChars&gameNum=20&gameName=Street%20Fighter%20III%20Third%20Strike

Startup of RD: 1 frame

Startup of anyones jump: At least 4 frames

[drobizh]

chun, makoto, ryu, yang, ken, sean, ibuki, elena, dudley, akuma and gill have 3 jump startup frames:arazz:

just to be an asshole:lovin:

[pherai]

Oh haha, was looking at SJ. Either way, my point still stands!

[Henaki]

is the startup of demon 1 frame or 0 frames. 0 frames meaning, once super flash happens, it executes, 1 frame meaning, you get 1 frame to die regardless of the super flash (unless you reversal a move thats invulnerable to throws).

its actually a pretty big difference, but theres only like 3 moves in the game that are invulnerable to throws on 1f.

[ESN]

is the startup of demon 1 frame or 0 frames. 0 frames meaning, once super flash happens, it executes, 1 frame meaning, you get 1 frame to die regardless of the super flash (unless you reversal a move thats invulnerable to throws).

its actually a pretty big difference, but theres only like 3 moves in the game that are invulnerable to throws on 1f.

1 frame, demon will catch on 2nd frame.
To use this frame to your advantage, you have to buffer your move before flash and activate it (by pushing P or K) at the exact startup frame of the demon.

What are the 3 moves you mention? I think about Gouki demon flip and Urien headbutt but i don’t see the third…Maybe Alex headstomp?

[Henaki]

1 frame, demon will catch on 2nd frame.
To use this frame to your advantage, you have to buffer your move during flash and activate it (by pushing P or K) at the exact startup frame of the demon.

What are the 3 moves you mention? I think about Gouki demon flip and Urien headbutt but i don’t see the third…Maybe Alex headstomp?

oro chicken kick, necro leap strike, i forgot demon flip does that too but you’re probably better off teleporting.

[HarmoNaz]

Wait - so you’re saying even after the demon activates right next to you - you can use a move like demon flip to get out???

That is seriously wrong. The entire motion of the move, INCLUDING the punch or kick have to be done before the flash (or exactly when the flash starts).

If you manage to do something to Akuma AFTER the flash - then the demon was NOT a point blank demon.

The best way to test this out is to use mame and try it with Akuma’s f+mp. Demon cannot grab that move. So one person does a point blank demon, then the second player mashes f+mp AFTER the flash to escape.

If that does work, then I obviously have a lot more to learn about 3s…

[drobizh]

it will not escape, nothing will if it was inputed after the flash. that’s if the demon was point blank. i have tried the f+mp method. and makotos s.hk. i tried it with the rapid fire on the hori2. it’s the same thing with the gigas

edit: if i’m wrong i appologize

[ESN]

Wait - so you’re saying even after the demon activates right next to you - you can use a move like demon flip to get out???

That is seriously wrong. The entire motion of the move, INCLUDING the punch or kick have to be done before the flash (or exactly when the flash starts).

If you manage to do something to Akuma AFTER the flash - then the demon was NOT a point blank demon.

The best way to test this out is to use mame and try it with Akuma’s f+mp. Demon cannot grab that move. So one person does a point blank demon, then the second player mashes f+mp AFTER the flash to escape.

If that does work, then I obviously have a lot more to learn about 3s…

I doubt it’s verifiable without programming (with one frame precision) or putting down game speed to half or more.
I’ll test this on mame tonight…

[Henaki]

it will not escape, nothing will if it was inputed after the flash. that’s if the demon was point blank. i have tried the f+mp method. and makotos s.hk. i tried it with the rapid fire on the hori2. it’s the same thing with the gigas

edit: if i’m wrong i appologize

if demon has 1f (in the sense that you have 1f of doing something as the demon actually hits you) startup if you do a reversal unthrowable move, it would not get hit by the SGS right away. if it has 0 frames of startup (in the sense that once superflash activates, the move hits you period). you should be, theoretically, be able to input a reversal headbutt if SGS has 1f startup, and not 0. i consider gigas a 0f startup super, SGS might be but no one actually answered the question i asked. i’m almost positive SGS has 0 frames of startup, but people keep saying 1f, are you saying 1f AFTER the superflash, or the 1f literally is the frame the superflash happens from the in, that’s all. there’s just a huge difference between the two. i didn’t mean to start a raging demon riot that people seem to be questioning as new information to them, i was just asking a question. although it probably wouldn’t kill you guys to check anyway. i was never saying you can reversal out of demon.

[ESN]

if demon has 1f (in the sense that you have 1f of doing something as the demon actually hits you) startup if you do a reversal unthrowable move, it would not get hit by the SGS right away. if it has 0 frames of startup (in the sense that once superflash activates, the move hits you period). you should be, theoretically, be able to input a reversal headbutt if SGS has 1f startup, and not 0. i consider gigas a 0f startup super, SGS might be but no one actually answered the question i asked. i’m almost positive SGS has 0 frames of startup, but people keep saying 1f, are you saying 1f AFTER the superflash, or the 1f literally is the frame the superflash happens from the in, that’s all. there’s just a huge difference between the two. i didn’t mean to start a raging demon riot that people seem to be questioning as new information to them, i was just asking a question. although it probably wouldn’t kill you guys to check anyway. i was never saying you can reversal out of demon.

Just tested with Mame, i never be able to do anything (first frame airborne or unthrowable move) after superflash: 6 + HK with Chun or reversal headbutt with Urien or 6 + MP with Gouki.
In fact, it seems moves buffered before (a super for example, but without P or K to activate) cannot be activated after flash at all…

BUT! It’s definitely a one frame move, and same for gigas i guess!
Step by step mode permit me to see that an input produce a result after one (or strangely enough, more) frame, which is totally obvious in fact .
So: End of flash -> you activate one of the supposedly demon killer moves on the very first frame after the flash, but it will be active, at best ,on the next frame, the same frame where demon should catch you (and it’ll do)!
Another clue is that i notice by pure luck that urien respiration (his chest slightly moves) animation (frame transition) occur after flash but before demon catch…

Some tricks i tested for fun: standing HK true kara demon is not do-able, crouching HK one is but it’s largely faster thah classic MP!

Edit: you can parry point blank Chun-Li SA2 after the flash, forward input has to be on one of the two first frames after the flash :bgrin:

[Therapist]

The 1 frame thing means it hits on the first frame after it’s activation, which means you have 0 frames to react after it, because every move you did would happen on frame 2… you can literally do nothing if you didn’t do it before demon activated… is it that hard to accept that you can’t escape a properly executed kara-demon? Come on already.

[pherai]

crouching HK one is but it’s largely faster thah classic MP!

Record this! I’ll bet it looks sick!

[Henaki]

The 1 frame thing means it hits on the first frame after it’s activation, which means you have 0 frames to react after it, because every move you did would happen on frame 2… you can literally do nothing if you didn’t do it before demon activated… is it that hard to accept that you can’t escape a properly executed kara-demon? Come on already.

some games list what kara demon is as a 0 frame startup thats why it confused me JESUS FUCKING CHRIST AHGHA GET OFF MY CASE DIE KEVIN AGH, i didnt even want people to test it just some clairification and this happens.

how do i do frame by frame in mame, i’ll test it myself and end this shitty speculation spree

[ESN]

Record this! I’ll bet it looks sick!

[media=youtube]J1QDcrXNwto[/media]

[ESN]

some games list what kara demon is as a 0 frame startup thats why it confused me JESUS FUCKING CHRIST AHGHA GET OFF MY CASE DIE KEVIN AGH, i didnt even want people to test it just some clairification and this happens.

how do i do frame by frame in mame, i’ll test it myself and end this shitty speculation spree

F12: toggle frames number
P: Pause the game
Right Shift + P: display next frame

There is also a very useful command to display what button / direction is pushed, as SFA Anthology or CVS2. This command is not assigned by default…

On pause and before displaying next frame, just push (and hold!) what you want on your stick. Then, push Right Shift + P. Change button, push Right Shift + P, etc…