indeed, only look how they had on sbo hnk, sbx, fuc, etc
imo one of the reasons that mvc2 didnt take off appart from what you posted, its because simply marvel is not hype enough in japan, specially compared to the other franchises that have enough hype behind them to make them forgive how broken are the games
Sentinel is not top tier? How can a character used in 90% of the last parts of tournaments not be top tier?
You even said it yourself- every character together with a Sentinel and a good assist (in your case one that really compliments sentinel) becomes a valid team.
But having 50 different teams where a combo of a Sent+CapCom/Cyke carries whatever crap char you want as a leader is not called balance. (And no top player would dare waste a good char spot in the finals)
Also, please show me 15+ character in Evo results.
Yeah, Marvel isn’t Japanese. Could be simple as that.
lets see mvc2 15 (argueable, more like 6 to 8 maybe 10) of 56 not so good
GG 21 of 23 and even the 2 of them have done well on tournaments
BBCS1 (arcade) has 14 chars wich only 2 are garbagestic, CS2 has 17 wich everyone looks good so far
AH3 everyone seems viable at this point
MBCC everyone seems viable too
SSFIV, i dont care enough of the game to see how its doing
many of the actual games have done it well or should i say more than well
well it didnt help that 90% of the cast was garbage if they werent paired with top tiers
i was being sarcastic. You said clockw0rk only has 1 top tier character on it when in fact it has 3. You’ve contradicted yourself already. Read what I quoted you on please.
Marvel will die before some characters are mastered. I believe characters like ruby heart, mummy, dhalsim and even omega red on the right teams all could win EVO. I’ve beaten tournament level players with worse characters than the ones I mentioned. Mummy and dhalsim can both do absurd damage off 1 touch and dhalsim wins the game.
there is a difference between being a good character and winning EVO. HUGE difference. ssf4 does not have 15+ characters that all could win EVO. GGAC, yea sure possibly. BBCS1 LOL FUCK NO. MB is another exception and I’ve never actually played ah3 hard.
Every character in mvc2 around 10-15 has a potential shot to win EVO within a 2\3 double elimination system. Where as in Japan, those lower tier characters are only playing 1 game and allowed to move on so those characters are more effective in that system. Thats why the USA tier listings are always slightly a bit different than the Japanese ones.
lol why are people trying to reason with the flawed mind of tataki.
hell, how many ironman players were there from japan? ironman, the closest to having a true infinite in the game…oh, and wasn’t it mainly USAs storm/sent teams that obliterated them? wait, so what’s all this BS about them not liking infinites? gtfo (and there aren’t even real infinites in the game…well none really applied in real play)
japan has some of the cheapest play in fighting games, their version of tiers/what the best/good shit in the game was all janked because of what they thought was truly cheap ass shit (IM, dhalsim, dark sakura infinite teleport) but it was the storm/sent stuff and magneto/resets that was most likely gettin’ 'em.
they couldn’t keep up and it’s as simple as that imo
lol He was being sarcastic.
Admittingly, I haven’t seen a WarMachine, a Dhalsim or a Blackheart in the Top 8 at EVO. but nonetheless, they will fuck you up for free. They are top tier and can easily control the match. Other characters are extremely competitive on the right teams. Here is a list of dangerous characters that either made top 8, or was DAMN close.
Storm
Sentinel
Magneto
Cable
IM
Spiral
Strider
WM
Cyclops
BH
Doom
Dhalsim
Ruby Heart (think Viscant)
Colossus (Top 8, or maybe Top 16 in 2007)
Megaman (made Top 8 in 2008)
Juggernaut (think Mike Z and Dao. They place high ALL the time)
Gambit (Jwong. Won a couple tourneys)
Rouge (Vegita-x aka IFC Zangief)
Anakaris (Beats* who is very well known)
Pretty healthy list. Put the assist (Capcom, Psylocke, Tron) in there, that is at least 22 characters to make a team with. Not to mention BBHood (whose assist and zoning is oh so sexy), Sabertooth (whose assist is very good for trapping), Hulk (Team Vidkill anybody?), Guile and Charlie (great AAA, and Guile made top 8 in 2008), Omega Red (Dao and Clockw0rk), Silver Samurai (Ramaiken is sexy), Cammy (AAA is gdlk). Shit that is 30 characters that can win a tourney if you were to make a team and try to win with them. 30/56 is pretty fucking good IMO. [media=youtube]9PpQAwRjgag"[/media]
Regarding Japan’s and Europes displeasures in Mahvel, I think its the fact that Marvel isn’t very popular in Japan, whereas Marvel is popular in America. Also:
USA>Japan in MVC2.
EDIT: Anakaris probably never made it to Evo finals, or any major finals, but Anakaris still beats some of the top tier pretty easily.
thats pretty much spot on. I don’t know how people can say Japan isn’t fond of infinites or cheap shit when they’ve basically pioneered almost every broke tactic in SF and quite a few other games.
and yea, I think the same thing about Japan too. They did attempt to compete in this game for 5 years and they could never do it so they eventually threw in the towel.
yes they have some of the cheapest players in the world especially in other games. using the argument that they don’t like infinites (or, essentially, “broke” shit) is the silliest thing I’ve heard. they like winning plain and simple. but it’s also silly because this game doesn’t really have infinites, and the closest character to having an infinite, ironman, was like japan’s faaaaavorite character it seemed.
cause they couldn’t hang w/ US players.
There’s also the fact that comparatively, there were more fighting games available in the average Japanese arcade than in the US. combine that with the fact that the Marvel brand doesn’t carry as much stock in Japan as it does in the US and it’s reasonable to see how a newer game (especially all these games based on animé and shizz) would attract more of a following than Marvel.
Interesting point, I live in probably one of the few countries outside the US where MvC2 still has a huge following, and even the most run down corner store arcades will have an MvC2 machine (often the only one with well maintained parts). The thing is, similar to the US. Arcades went into a decline here during the past decade. While not as bad as in the States (we still have major arcade chains in most malls), the number of new games, especially new fighting games became less and less. At the same time, the ones that did get in were less recognizeable than Marvel (this being a country that loves everything American) so most Marvel players simply stuck with it.
Learn to read. When a new game comes out the play to win and abuse all the stuff they can, but when those stuff are infinites, kaykyoin 90% combos (I love Jojo but even with petshop banned that game needs fixing…) or imbalances that make the game boring at high level for them they eventually stop playing the game regularly.
Top players aren’t willing to take the risk, which leaves you with no actual proof.
I was using Evo as an example not because of the format, but because it’s the highest level tournament in the world when it comes to MVC2. The rest of the tournaments in Evo are not a good way to measure. A top Japanese BB player could rip the american competition a new asshole with almost any character. So in that game’s case I look at Japanese tournaments to see what’s up.
Yet even when the can switch characters between matches, they are not willing to take the risk and try other characters for 1 lousy match (which like you said should be ideal for the lesser characters) so again it’s just speculation with no proof.
i can only speak for Europe , first of all nobody had a dreamcast everyone was running x box and ps2 …
and marvel never relay came out in europe because capcom lost the marvel license … we had a copy for ps2 but all hardcore gamers complained that only dc is playable …and when you have no arcarde and no version for your home console how the hell should you play this …
me and my brother are 2 out of maybe 6 Germans playing this game doing rom fastfly and stuf like this … and if we play against guys from the us most of the games are quite laggy … we play against guys from all over Europe but beside some guys from england or Spain there is no real challenge … and some guy`s are way better than us but they lagg like hell for us most of the time …
i dont know how it was in japan …
you should learn to read tataki. or at least address the other points because again you clearly don’t know what you’re speaking about (but trying to address the other points might help you see this). or just keep trolling/nihonjin dick riding if that’s what you’re doing.
my posts already pointed out how dumb your made up argument is. but I’ll add more: just consider the games with custom combo features and japan playing them
it was america’s superior zoning/space control that japan couldn’t handle. the players most trying to do the closest thing to “infinites” in the game was japan, but it still couldn’t beat america. please believe if ironman was a better character like the level of the gods they’d probably still be playing since it’s very much like the yun combos, the agroove combos, etc. etc. that they like.
of course that this would happen when the player base of the game is so small
mvc2 is a niche game on japan without few players on it
dont taking away the merits of the usa players over the japanese players on mvc2 but lets face it, the japanese players that play mvc2 are handicaped since they dont have enough competition to evolve on the game, pretty muh like many of the usa players for the other games that are niche
the superior gameplay comes from the amount of competition that the game has
for example one (if not the best) players of mvc2 of my country went to evo 2010 (or 2009 im not sure) and even when he is always on the top of our tournaments he made it around 30th to 36th place, why because usa has more competiion on mvc2 wich traduces on more experience
no I totally agree with that, though the final point is really that they couldn’t keep up with USA at the game, the game being comparatively smaller in Japan only made the issue worse. Less people playing, harder to compete, which in turns makes even less people play and so on. not saying it’s impossible to get to a high level with fewer people, but it generally doesn’t happen especially back then with hardly any online play.
Black People…
ITS MAHVEL BABY!!!
lol, do you even play marvel? I still play marvel a few times a week and this is my main game. Its incredibly funny to me you keep trying to express your POV with no actual play experience. My proof comes from years of knowledge about the game and actually playing. Your proof is based on results which is incredibly stupid as the game has constantly evolved through out the years and also add the fact that most of the top mvc2 players don’t play low tier. They only play top.
[media=youtube]7-7suefXOTA[/media]
[media=youtube]KEWNJfpBWGY[/media] —even though justin loses this set, he lost 10-6 with a REALLLLLY crappy low tier team against one of the better west coast players @ the time.
The proof is all around you. Stop looking @ results and justifying it like that. Look @ the actual characters competing. If Dao picks some strong shit with his omega red, its gonna be a fight. His omega red is fighting top tier magneto from NY with a top tier team and omega red is fucking winning. If justin picks jill\sent or jill ron, there is no way DP wins that set. Watch gabe play mummy, jeebus!
None of these guys actually play the strongest low tier team possible and they’re competing with tops.
i don’t think he can grasp that you can’t really quantify a lot of things in marvel like you can in nearly every other game. it’s just waaaay too different. if you count every different combination of characters (or more likely every different assist combination too since teams with vertical typhoon play different than teams with horizontal typhoons play different than teams with lightning attack) the variety is waaay up there.
shoult is pretty much right about all of that. even if you switch out the X on an x/sent/cap team the different teams all play like a different character in single character (no tag/assist/DHC/THC) games.
it’s like comparing apples to oranges to fucking dragon fruits or some weird fruit.
to this day my fav yipes-ism ever is “YOOO U SAW DAT METER?!?!?” when Dau’s Hood builds like 20% from whiffs launchers