d3v
31
There’s also the fact that comparatively, there were more fighting games available in the average Japanese arcade than in the US. combine that with the fact that the Marvel brand doesn’t carry as much stock in Japan as it does in the US and it’s reasonable to see how a newer game (especially all these games based on animé and shizz) would attract more of a following than Marvel.
Interesting point, I live in probably one of the few countries outside the US where MvC2 still has a huge following, and even the most run down corner store arcades will have an MvC2 machine (often the only one with well maintained parts). The thing is, similar to the US. Arcades went into a decline here during the past decade. While not as bad as in the States (we still have major arcade chains in most malls), the number of new games, especially new fighting games became less and less. At the same time, the ones that did get in were less recognizeable than Marvel (this being a country that loves everything American) so most Marvel players simply stuck with it.
tataki
32
Learn to read. When a new game comes out the play to win and abuse all the stuff they can, but when those stuff are infinites, kaykyoin 90% combos (I love Jojo but even with petshop banned that game needs fixing…) or imbalances that make the game boring at high level for them they eventually stop playing the game regularly.
Top players aren’t willing to take the risk, which leaves you with no actual proof.
I was using Evo as an example not because of the format, but because it’s the highest level tournament in the world when it comes to MVC2. The rest of the tournaments in Evo are not a good way to measure. A top Japanese BB player could rip the american competition a new asshole with almost any character. So in that game’s case I look at Japanese tournaments to see what’s up.
Yet even when the can switch characters between matches, they are not willing to take the risk and try other characters for 1 lousy match (which like you said should be ideal for the lesser characters) so again it’s just speculation with no proof.
i can only speak for Europe , first of all nobody had a dreamcast everyone was running x box and ps2 …
and marvel never relay came out in europe because capcom lost the marvel license … we had a copy for ps2 but all hardcore gamers complained that only dc is playable …and when you have no arcarde and no version for your home console how the hell should you play this …
me and my brother are 2 out of maybe 6 Germans playing this game doing rom fastfly and stuf like this … and if we play against guys from the us most of the games are quite laggy … we play against guys from all over Europe but beside some guys from england or Spain there is no real challenge … and some guy`s are way better than us but they lagg like hell for us most of the time …
i dont know how it was in japan …
BeaTs
34
you should learn to read tataki. or at least address the other points because again you clearly don’t know what you’re speaking about (but trying to address the other points might help you see this). or just keep trolling/nihonjin dick riding if that’s what you’re doing.
my posts already pointed out how dumb your made up argument is. but I’ll add more: just consider the games with custom combo features and japan playing them
it was america’s superior zoning/space control that japan couldn’t handle. the players most trying to do the closest thing to “infinites” in the game was japan, but it still couldn’t beat america. please believe if ironman was a better character like the level of the gods they’d probably still be playing since it’s very much like the yun combos, the agroove combos, etc. etc. that they like.
Hecatom
35
of course that this would happen when the player base of the game is so small
mvc2 is a niche game on japan without few players on it
dont taking away the merits of the usa players over the japanese players on mvc2 but lets face it, the japanese players that play mvc2 are handicaped since they dont have enough competition to evolve on the game, pretty muh like many of the usa players for the other games that are niche
the superior gameplay comes from the amount of competition that the game has
for example one (if not the best) players of mvc2 of my country went to evo 2010 (or 2009 im not sure) and even when he is always on the top of our tournaments he made it around 30th to 36th place, why because usa has more competiion on mvc2 wich traduces on more experience
BeaTs
36
no I totally agree with that, though the final point is really that they couldn’t keep up with USA at the game, the game being comparatively smaller in Japan only made the issue worse. Less people playing, harder to compete, which in turns makes even less people play and so on. not saying it’s impossible to get to a high level with fewer people, but it generally doesn’t happen especially back then with hardly any online play.
lol, do you even play marvel? I still play marvel a few times a week and this is my main game. Its incredibly funny to me you keep trying to express your POV with no actual play experience. My proof comes from years of knowledge about the game and actually playing. Your proof is based on results which is incredibly stupid as the game has constantly evolved through out the years and also add the fact that most of the top mvc2 players don’t play low tier. They only play top.
[media=youtube]7-7suefXOTA[/media]
[media=youtube]KEWNJfpBWGY[/media] —even though justin loses this set, he lost 10-6 with a REALLLLLY crappy low tier team against one of the better west coast players @ the time.
The proof is all around you. Stop looking @ results and justifying it like that. Look @ the actual characters competing. If Dao picks some strong shit with his omega red, its gonna be a fight. His omega red is fighting top tier magneto from NY with a top tier team and omega red is fucking winning. If justin picks jill\sent or jill ron, there is no way DP wins that set. Watch gabe play mummy, jeebus!
None of these guys actually play the strongest low tier team possible and they’re competing with tops.
BeaTs
39
i don’t think he can grasp that you can’t really quantify a lot of things in marvel like you can in nearly every other game. it’s just waaaay too different. if you count every different combination of characters (or more likely every different assist combination too since teams with vertical typhoon play different than teams with horizontal typhoons play different than teams with lightning attack) the variety is waaay up there.
shoult is pretty much right about all of that. even if you switch out the X on an x/sent/cap team the different teams all play like a different character in single character (no tag/assist/DHC/THC) games.
it’s like comparing apples to oranges to fucking dragon fruits or some weird fruit.
to this day my fav yipes-ism ever is “YOOO U SAW DAT METER?!?!?” when Dau’s Hood builds like 20% from whiffs launchers
Yipes for MVC3 ANNOUNCER!
ITT:weeaboo tries to validate glorious nippon.
Japan sucks at marvel, deal with it
d3v
43
Meh, if you think Tataki is bad, you should see the scrubs over at Unity who hate on MvC2 and think that TvC is the cream of the crop.
lol and with this, SRK>>>>>>>>>>>Capcom Unity
d3v
45
Geh, you try to get people to get past their misconceptions and actually try to understand the game and all you get is more hate.
Sometimes I wish shoultz would just pop in on threads like this and show these fools what’s what.
Anotak
46
tataki come to final round play me with all your top tiers and you cant take my megaman in a ft10 i bet 100$ on it
capcomunity is a fucking joke. There are no top players there and 99% of that website doesn’t attend tournaments.
Their opinion on fighting games stems from one thing, the words of other idiots.
Question for Hecatom:
If 14/17 is good, why is 15/56 bad? Even though Marvel has more total characters tourney viable?
I mean, are you really telling me if they took this game
and added eight different versions of Tsubaki/Rachel it’d suddenly be garbage?
Or if Capcom released a new MvC2 disc with 30 characters suddenly missing from the roster that it’d suddenly be a better game even if none of the mechanics were change?
BeaTs
49
^yup you pretty much get the point. but it’s even more than that simply because of teams, team orders, and assist types. basically any different combination or difference in those 3 aspects is like an entirely different character
reverse combofiend plays different than regular combofiend. the team plays overall different with drones assist or with rocket punch assist. team orders and the DHCs from the orders change the match. different assist types but also the difference in THCs caused can also change what the teams can do. you just can’t compare. even if you did, like you said, 15 or so definitely viable characters is balanced in itself.
Marvel has a variety of 56x55x54 (not allowing duplicate characters) or 166,320 different teams.
