Who Are Your Favorite Comics Writers?

[eddymasta]

Garth Ennis - Punisher max rocks.

Ed Brubaker - I have joined the church of Bru with his run on DD

Frank Miller - OG Daredevil

Alan Moore - The Watchmen is too epic son!

[Carpet_Lint]

Lol, Chuck Austen. That Marvel MAX War Machine mini wasn’t that bad.

But that mindblowingly insane Nightcrawler as pope, vapourizing communion wafer story in Uncanny X-Men is just completely unforgivable. I mean…there’s fiction…there’s superhero comic books…and there’s…whatever the hell that was.

Fun fact: comic book authors usually avoid giving characters the name “Clint” because the “l” and the “i” together tend to look like a “u.”

Haha, he is GOOD.

I think you could make a convincing argument that Rob Liefeld and Todd McFarlane’s contributions to comic books (Cable, early 90’s X-Force, Heroes Reborn, Spawn’s huge right foot boot, being sued by Neil Gaiman) far outweight those of Eisner, Lee, and Kirby’s when you keep in mind the entire context of the history of comic books and their value today.

Just think about it.

Sure, that works. Actually, your observation is pretty astute, considering I always had you pegged as a fan of A Simple Plan and Bowling for Soup. Guess Canada can surprise you sometimes.

Actually, I should have used like Ellis is to Morrison, as Broken Social Scene is to Avril. Broken Social Scene doesn’t rock a third as hard as Avril does - the musical complexities and layering of Girlfriend makes their conventional commercial sound look absolutely pedestrian in comparison. They might as well be a mid 90’s boy band.

Although there are definitely times when I think Morrison is “poppier” than Ellis. I mean stuff like Animal Man, JLA, New X-Men, WE3, and even his Doom Patrol is pretty accessible. It’s just the guy wrote The Filth and now everyone thinks he’s some weird, drugged-out, freak.

Grant Morrison’s a better and more popular writer to start and he’s written more and for longer, so he’s had some big properties to play with like Batman, X-Men, and JLA that not a lot of guys get the option to. So definitely, a lot of his stuff has been pretty accessible, somewhat conventional superhero stuff - that’s going to be true just based on the volume of his work. But I don’t disagree with you at all. Like his JLA run is one of my favourites in comics because it was just so old school superhero style awesome. Nothing groundbreaking, but it was just so good overall because he realized that the JLA isn’t a soap opera type book like X-Men and the Avengers - the personal relationships between the characters mattered less in JLA. And that they should spend all their time just kicking ass and running around in the fantastic plots he drew out, and handle all the character development stuff in their own books.

And then Mark Waid picked it up, got the idea down same as Morrison, and the book didn’t skip a beat. That’s why Mark Waid’s a Hall of Fame writer as well.

But Morrison’s crazier stuff is definitely a lot less conventional - though not necessarily less accessible - than an average Ellis book. Mainly the Vertigo stuff - The Invisibles, Seaguy…and Doom Patrol and Animal Man have some completely original concepts in them - I can’t call those conventional in any sense.

Ellis has Transmetropolitan, which might be the hardest of his books for a new comic book reader to just jump right in and enjoy…but even that’s more accessible than Morrison’s craziest stuff (ie. The Filth, Seaguy). And that’s about the only book I can think of off the top of my head from Ellis that I flat out can’t or wouldn’t give to a new reader. Planetary, Global Frequency, Desolation Jones…I’ve lent those trades to non-comic book readers and they’ve gobbled it all up. Wheras with Morrison, there’s actually a couple of his best books that would just break the mind of a newbie reader.

I like Kirkman, too, but I think he’s got Bill Willingham syndrome in my eyes. I think The Walking Dead is one of the greatest comics around, and compared to that title, all of his other works fall short to me. Even Invincible, which I think is great fun, just isn’t as compelling as my hardcore favorites. Although Invincible, Brit, Marvel Team-Up, and Marvel Zombies are all easily better than Jack of Fables and especially Day of Vengeance/Shadowpact.

True, this is another case I think where one of a guy’s books just stands heads and shoulders above the rest of his stuff. The Walking Dead is clearly his best written book, but I happen to like Invincible a lot as well, and overall all his books are pretty good (and better than Bill Willingham’s other stuff), yeah. The first two issues of The Astounding Wolf-Man don’t work for me on any level at all though. Is this supposed to be a really subtle high brow satirical piece that I don’t understand? I just can’t dig it.

You don’t dig The Boys? You need to get your eyeballs fucked out. Anyway, I think Ennis is still more of a varied/versatile writer than Frank Miller and J.M. DeMatteis (both of whom I also LOVE but even I have to admit lots of their stories are very similar thematically). What’s sexy about Ennis is that at least he does his best to introduce non-superhero genres into mainstream comics. It’s just that when he does do superheroes, he tends to make them a mockery.

I don’t know, The Boys moves a bit too slowly for me, and it’s almost like TOO MUCH of a stereotypical Garth Ennis book.

Garth Ennis is one of the best though, and even just his Punisher stuff proves it. Absolutely nails the character, and he’s the perfect guy for the book.

Wait, did you just say that Alan Moore’s style isn’t conducive to monthly comics?

Sorry, no - it’s just the whole idea of monthly comics and whether or not it matters in the end if they did come out on time. Because if Bendis’ stuff reads great in collected trade format or just if you blow through a ton of issues all at once in the same sitting…does it really matter whether or not his style is conducive (did I seriously use “conductive” the first time around?) to monthly comics? Like, is my beef with this guy even valid to start with?

Anyway, you can’t fault Bendis for “killing comics.” He’s just writing them the way he knows how, and it’s all the wannabes who can churn it out like he can who are making his style look bad. I mean, what you’re saying is basically like blaming Radiohead’s The Bends album for the death of rock music because ever since that came out, everyone else has been trying to imitate the style and formula. Hate Snow Patrol, not The Bends. It’s not Radiohead’s fault.

That’s a good point. But The Bends was still awesome, and I wouldn’t be able to blame Bendis if he pulled it off. But he’s just as guilty of it sometimes as all the other guys who follow now. A lot of his books are still way to watered down, and he keeps doing it. He still does that same thing even now in his books, depicting the same event over the course of three entire splash pages instead of the sufficient two panels.

He’s still hit or miss. But since his hits are so good, and even his misses sell like top 10, everyone keeps Snow Patrolling it.

Psht, Chuck Dixon? CHUCK DIXON? Come on, son, come on. COME ON! All that guy is trying to do with his comics is just trying to show us how manly and tough he is. What a showoff. When I read a comic book, I want to know that the writer is a stuffy little nerd who can’t get a date and has no life. I don’t want the author trying to prove to me how masculine he is by writing an action sequence so vivid that my fingers tremble with excitement as I flip through the pages.

I wonder sometimes what would happen if he didn’t always have a dynamic artist like Scott McDaniel or Damion Scott drawing his stuff.

He should write a book with like…I don’t know…Mike Allred or Alex Ross or something. That’d be awesome.

You forgot, Paul Jenkins also wrote a classic (CLASSIC) story detailing the origin and livelihood of one of comicdom’s most significant antiheroes of all time. Yeah. That’s right, baby. You know what I’m talkin’ 'bout and you love it like hell. Jenkins placed his indelible stamp on one of the most exciting super-powered characters of our time. Oh yeah.

I’m talking about his run on… The Darkness.

DARKNESSSSSSSS

That was a good one. Is that what you’re talking about, Painy? I don’t remember anything else that fits that description.

Sounds like you have some unresolved issues regarding Mark Millar. And I don’t mean comic book issues.

But you know what? Mark Millar gets a lifetime pass of unlimited diplomatic immunity. Why? Because he makes me laugh, no matter how over-the-top his characterizations are. Just read Wanted again. Or The Ultimates.

Basically, “You think this letter on my head stands for France?!” means Millar can never, EVER do ANYTHING wrong for the rest of his life. But I don’t expect YOU to understand, Canucklehead. It takes an AMERICAN to understand and appreciate the unbridled GENIUS of the greatest one-liner in the history of human civilization.

You’re right again, as always. And those Freddie Prince Jr. references…dude just knows how to stay in touch with the current generation of young comic book readers.

Wing Commander? She’s All That? Summer Catch? Scooby Doo? All winners. Freddie Prince Jr. is so hot right now.

And I agree, P.Giddy - Mark Millar being a more talented version of Jeph Loeb is on the money. Mark Millar is a like a poor man’s Grant Morrison, and Loeb is a homeless man’s Morrison.

[box]

Brad Meltzer has been a bit of a disapointment to me.

I really enjoyed Identity Crisis (except for the last issue)… so I was really looking forward to his JLA run. But so far it hasn’t really lived up to my expectations. I think the whole lightning saga crossover with Geoff John’s JSA sort of screwed things up.

I must compliment the artist though. Ed Benes is quite good.

Brad’s final issue of JLA comes out today and Dwayne McDuffie takes over. I’ll probably continue to pick up this title. Dwayne’s first arc is entitled “Injustice League Unlimited”. I certainly can’t pass that up.

[Zephyranthes]

Lol, Chuck Austen. That Marvel MAX War Machine mini wasn’t that bad.

But that mindblowingly insane Nightcrawler as pope, vapourizing communion wafer story in Uncanny X-Men is just completely unforgivable. I mean…there’s fiction…there’s superhero comic books…and there’s…whatever the hell that was.

That’s true, MAX War Machine was actually entertaining. I

t’s weird how all the X-Fans jumped Austen’s ass because of what he did on Uncanny, though. I’m not saying any of it was good, or even average, but what with all those years of Claremont/Jim Lee/Liefeld/Lobdell/Niceza/Loeb/random hack writing X-Men stories, I expected X-Fans would have a higher tolerance for shit writing. I never hated Chuck Austen. I laughed at all the jokes about him, but I would never make one myself.

Plus, he made Juggernaut fight on the side of the angels, thus imbuing a generic “UNSTOPPABLE” supervillain with several shades of gray, thus adding a supremely dense amount of depth and moral complexity to a character.

Haha, he is GOOD.

I think you could make a convincing argument that Rob Liefeld and Todd McFarlane’s contributions to comic books (Cable, early 90’s X-Force, Heroes Reborn, Spawn’s huge right foot boot, being sued by Neil Gaiman) far outweight those of Eisner, Lee, and Kirby’s when you keep in mind the entire context of the history of comic books and their value today.

Just think about it.

I was about to argue with you but then you mentioned “Spawn’s huge right foot boot” and I lost my train of logic. I never noticed Spawn had a big boot. All I ever noticed was the gigantic, flowing cape and all the chains. And a couple of spikes. I never even knew Spawn had a body, actually. I had to image google him. What the heck is with Canadians and giant capes. That’s all I think of whenever someone says “spawn.” Giant capes. Spawn definitely kickstarted a new genre, though- cape porn. I was pretty hooked on that for six or seven days back in '93.

You can criticize Rob Liefeld all you want, but all he did was draw extra big muscles, tons of pockets, and very few backgrounds. At least he didn’t create a new genre of porn. Heck the guy might even read the Bible- check out the “Funniest Moment in Comics” thread to see examples of the character designs he did for Moses vs. Pharoah and David vs. Goliath. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4192433&postcount=36

Actually, I should have used like Ellis is to Morrison, as Broken Social Scene is to Avril. Broken Social Scene doesn’t rock a third as hard as Avril does - the musical complexities and layering of Girlfriend makes their conventional commercial sound look absolutely pedestrian in comparison. They might as well be a mid 90’s boy band.

Grant Morrison’s a better and more popular writer to start and he’s written more and for longer, so he’s had some big properties to play with like Batman, X-Men, and JLA that not a lot of guys get the option to. So definitely, a lot of his stuff has been pretty accessible, somewhat conventional superhero stuff - that’s going to be true just based on the volume of his work. But I don’t disagree with you at all. Like his JLA run is one of my favourites in comics because it was just so old school superhero style awesome. Nothing groundbreaking, but it was just so good overall because he realized that the JLA isn’t a soap opera type book like X-Men and the Avengers - the personal relationships between the characters mattered less in JLA. And that they should spend all their time just kicking ass and running around in the fantastic plots he drew out, and handle all the character development stuff in their own books.

And then Mark Waid picked it up, got the idea down same as Morrison, and the book didn’t skip a beat. That’s why Mark Waid’s a Hall of Fame writer as well.

But Morrison’s crazier stuff is definitely a lot less conventional - though not necessarily less accessible - than an average Ellis book. Mainly the Vertigo stuff - The Invisibles, Seaguy…and Doom Patrol and Animal Man have some completely original concepts in them - I can’t call those conventional in any sense.

Ellis has Transmetropolitan, which might be the hardest of his books for a new comic book reader to just jump right in and enjoy…but even that’s more accessible than Morrison’s craziest stuff (ie. The Filth, Seaguy). And that’s about the only book I can think of off the top of my head from Ellis that I flat out can’t or wouldn’t give to a new reader. Planetary, Global Frequency, Desolation Jones…I’ve lent those trades to non-comic book readers and they’ve gobbled it all up. Wheras [sic] with Morrison, there’s actually a couple of his best books that would just break the mind of a newbie reader.

How is Seaguy one of Morrison’s craziest comics? When I think of a crazy Morrison comic, I think of The Filth and The Invisibles. Maybe I’m just a heckuva lot smarter than you but I think Seaguy was pretty straightforward. Subversive, definitely, and layered with intricate and nigh-inscrutable subtext, but still straightforward enough that lowly peons could still be able to appreciate the intense creativity of the comic itself.

Is Arkham Asylum crazy? There are people who read that and became Morrison fans 4LIFE. One of my buddies read it, and it broke his mind, but he became a Morrison devotee.

And then you got All-Star Superman, which should be the template for all pop comics ever. I mean if some person who’s never read a Superman comic in his life starts with All-Star #1, he’s going to spend the rest of his mortal existence looking for something that compares to it, and he’s going to fail and die miserable.

I was about to say something incredibly insightful about Warren Ellis at this point because I agree that he’s an living legend, but really my whole purpose for this post was just to make another mind-expanding musical analogy for you:

Ellis and Morrison are like Elvis Presley and Elvis Costello. Both of 'em are Elvises, but only one of them is gonna end up as a fat, washed-up Vegas lounge singer who’ll die while taking dump on a toilet.

And for what it’s worth, I still think that pound for pound, Peter Milligan is a way crazier writer than Morrison.

I don’t know, The Boys moves a bit too slowly for me, and it’s almost like TOO MUCH of a stereotypical Garth Ennis book.

What exactly IS a stereotypical Garth Ennis book? One that blows your mind? Something that has cursing, violence, war, sex, and John Wayne? But then that’s almost every writer’s stereotypical book.

Sorry, no - it’s just the whole idea of monthly comics and whether or not it matters in the end if they did come out on time. Because if Bendis’ stuff reads great in collected trade format or just if you blow through a ton of issues all at once in the same sitting…does it really matter whether or not his style is conducive (did I seriously use “conductive” the first time around?) to monthly comics? Like, is my beef with this guy even valid to start with?

Personally, and I expect P.Giddy to back me up on this one, monthly serials are irksome and it’s ALL ABOUT THE TRADE, BABY. If the only time you’re gonna read Powers, for example, is when the new issue comes out, then what’s the whole point of reading comics in the first place? You never remember what happened last month anyway. That’s why you get the TRADE, BABY. Because then YOU NEVER FORGET.

And if you’re somehow one of those unscrupulous types who downloads, you’re not gonna just download and read one issue at a time. You’re gonna get 'em all, queue 'em all up, and knock 'em down, just like Bill Walton said. Same basic principle.

That’s a good point. But The Bends was still awesome, and I wouldn’t be able to blame Bendis if he pulled it off. But he’s just as guilty of it sometimes as all the other guys who follow now. A lot of his books are still way to [sic] watered down, and he keeps doing it. He still does that same thing even now in his books, depicting the same event over the course of three entire splash pages instead of the sufficient two panels.

He’s still hit or miss. But since his hits are so good, and even his misses sell like top 10, everyone keeps Snow Patrolling it.

Haha, that’s totally gotta be our new catchphrase for suckas who just don’t get it: “Snow Patrollers.”

And I’m going to also say that the only reason you feel Bendis’ stuff is watered down is because you ain’t wait for the TRADE, BABY.

I wonder sometimes what would happen if he didn’t always have a dynamic artist like Scott McDaniel or Damion Scott drawing his stuff.

He should write a book with like…I don’t know…Mike Allred or Alex Ross or something. That’d be awesome.

Speakin’ of Allred, have you been getting the new Madman? It’s one of the few comics that’s completely worth buying in issue format. Virtually no ads, a letters page, and it’s got the most efficient recap page in the history of comics.

DARKNESSSSSSSS

That was a good one. Is that what you’re talking about, Painy? I don’t remember anything else that fits that description.

I think Painy was referring to Wuthering Heights. He got Jenkins confused with Emily Bronte. Heathcliff was always a badass, so it’s understandable.

And I agree, P.Giddy - Mark Millar being a more talented version of Jeph Loeb is on the money. Mark Millar is a like a poor man’s Grant Morrison, and Loeb is a homeless man’s Morrison.

You know, that’s another good observation, but I still don’t get why you hate on Millar. ‘Cause I mean a poor man’s Morrison is still richer than a rich man’s Mark Waid. O CANADA! FIGHTIN’ WORDS

---

Brad Meltzer has been a bit of a disapointment to me.

I really enjoyed Identity Crisis (except for the last issue)… so I was really looking forward to his JLA run. But so far it hasn’t really lived up to my expectations. I think the whole lightning saga crossover with Geoff John’s JSA sort of screwed things up.

Yeah, Meltzer’s a disappointment to me, too. I really liked his Green Arrow: The Archer’s Quest story. Everything else since then, I haven’t cared for. When I think of all the novelists who’ve tried their hand at writing comics- awesome writers like Richard K. Morgan, Denise Mina, Orson Scott Card- I just expected more from Meltzer.

All Meltzer really has going for him is his consistency and ability to deliver his scripts in on time so his books come out when they’re supposed to. But what is that to someone who waits for the TRADE, BABY? Absolutely worthless.

But I did enjoy that recent JLofA (ha, it looks absurd to call 'em JLofA instead of JLA) issue about Speedy and Vixen escaping certain death. Or maybe it’s just that Gene Ha’s art completely suckered me in.

[Pained_Auron]

nope not referring to either one of those stories.

seriously though, i wikipedia’d lint’s favorite story, and reading the summary made it seem incredibly stupid. but the review can’t be right. can it?

[Taichi]

I’m not a Marvel Fan. (The only Marvel Title I’m currently reading, is Power Pack)

what has Bru written for DC?

[P.Gorath]

I dig Meltzer. I havent read his Green Arrow but I liked Identity Crisis (minus the lame end reveal - how it happened, not the person themself) and the first JLA trade and they always seem to pair him up with a hot artist who does their best work. I also enjoyed The Book of Fate in a totally disposable beach reading kind of way. To me, he is kinda in the same category as Millar: breezy and fun but just deep enough to not feel bad about reading. While Millar is focuses this style with a more new school approach, Meltzer uses it with more of a silver age tinge.

Bendis is generally much better in trades…definitely the way to read his daredevil and I know there are some non-action issues of ultimate spider-man that floppy buyers didnt like that work just fine in a trade. On the other hand, Secret War is terrible no matter where you read it, as is House of M.

I haven’t read anything of Ellis’ that has impressed me beyond Transmet (which is genius). All of his superhero stuff I have read is not really up to par

Oh yeah, and RuckaRuckaRuckaRuckaRuckaRucka

[Overworld]

I agree with most of the opinions here for the most part.

Robert Kirkman is a guy I think gets a lot of good press for good reason. I oft grow tired of the “grim and gritty” comics (which can be cool in there own right, but for awhile there we were getting way too much of it across the board) and Kirkman’s stories always seem to be very fun. Which is very refreshing.

[Zephyranthes]

what has Bru written for DC?

That’s a rather Skrully question if I do say so myself.

He’s written some Batman (#603 is ESSENTIAL) and some Detective Comics (#s 784-786 are also ESSENTIAL). He did a couple of Batman OGNs: Gotham Noir (with Sean Phillips, KICK ASS) and The Man Who Laughs (Brubaker’s Joker, baby).

Then there’s his godly runs on Catwoman and Gotham Central… Two Batman spinoffs that are basically infinitely better than any and all other Bat-related books of their time.

He also did a Dead Boy Detectives mini with Bryan Talbot artwork, which has got to be one of the best Sandman spinoffs not written by Gaiman himself. There was also a Prez one-shot he did with Eric Shanower artwork- I think the Prez comic was actually his first mainstream work, ever, and it’s pretty sharply written. It’s got a good amount of indie sensibility to it and it uses a crazy obscure DC character to full effect.

Scene of the Crime with Michael Lark is another Vertigo Instant Classic. Read this and then realize how we aren’t worthy enough to read Daredevil and CRIMINAAAAAL!!!1.

[Edit, 'cause I forgot the first time: He also did Deadenders. What sucks is they only made one TPB and didn’t bother finishing the rest of it.]

He did a full year’s worth of The Authority. You also can’t forget about Sleeper, which is not only one of the best comics of the century but flat out one of the best THINGS period. It starts with Point Blank and then there are four volumes of Sleeper.

And he also did an issue or two of Tom Strong.

Taichi, are you sure you’re a DC fan? Because, like, shouldn’t a DC fan already know all this stuff? Somebody call the Skrull Kill Krew, Kwick!

[Kourin-chan]

I grew up reading Clarement, Nicienza, and Lobdell. But here’s a list of my favorite writers:

Grant Morrison
His run on New XMen pre-House of M was fantastic. I was a little peeved that Marvel basically UNDID his work by bringing back Magneto. His run on Batman is so-so to me, but I LOVE All Star Superman

Brian K. Vaughn
I know his other books, like Y the Last Man and Ex-Machina, are really popular, but my favorite BKV book is Runaways. Since Whedon took over, I haven’t really been reading it much though.

Chris Yost and Craig Kyle
These guys were basically the reason I started reading another X book besides Astonishing XMen. Their entire post Decimation run on New XMen was fucking AWESOME!! They put those kids through SO MUCH SHIT. And with Messiah Complex coming up, I wonder when things will get better for them, if ever lol

Geoff Johns
His run on Teen Titans was too good. His OYL stuff was wasn’t all that, though. His Green Lantern stuff’s been awesome. I was never really interested in GL before, but Sinestro Corps has been really good so far.

Garth Ennis
I know he’s known for other more popular works, but what got me hooked on Ennis was The Darkness. Whenever he wrote it(hell HE created it!), it was just such a good read. Jackie Estacado was THE bad ass with Ennis @ the reins. I read Preacher as well. FUCKING. AWESOME. Maybe I’ll check out his run on the Punisher some day:wink:

Greg Pak
Phoenix Endsong is pretty much my fav Pak story, since Dark Phoenix is one of my favorite characters( yes she’s evil…so what?:looney:) But he’s REALLY doing the damn thing now with WWH.

Brian Michael Bendis
Yes…I enjoy Bendis’ work too. Up until this whole Skrull bullshit, I very MUCH enjoyed his New Avengers run, much more than Mighty Avengers. I like MA…just not as much. I think the NA Civil War tie-ins were pretty much one of the best tie-ins CW had. I think with Bendis, some of his stuff is REALLY good. Then other things are…well…“ok” Like HOM; I thought it was an okay story that could’ve been told in maybe 5 issues instead of 8

Brad Metzler
I enjoyed Identity Crisis ALOT. It opened me up to read MORE DC titles when I first started working @ Midtown. I liked his run on JLA too; I have to catch up on the Lightning Saga; I’ll wait until the TPB comes out.

Robert Kirkman
I’m not crazy about the zombie genre, but I really enjoyed Marvel Zombies. I know his work on the Walking Dead is probably much better, but I haven’t gotten to it yet. I wonder how the MZ sequel will be like when it comes out in October.

[Carpet_Lint]

That’s true, MAX War Machine was actually entertaining. It’s weird how all the X-Fans jumped Austen’s ass because of what he did on Uncanny, though. I’m not saying any of it was good, or even average, but what with all those years of Claremont/Jim Lee/Liefeld/Lobdell/Niceza/Loeb/random hack writing X-Men stories, I expected X-Fans would have a higher tolerance for shit writing. I never hated Chuck Austen. I laughed at all the jokes about him, but I would never make one myself.

First off, don’t you ever DARE put down that Claremont/Jim Lee run in the early 90’s. I WILL END YOU. Yes, it got pretty insane near the end when Jim Lee forgot he had a writer and had his “I’m Keith Hernandez” moment and just went like “I’m Jim Lee. Come on, I sluttified a no-name Psylocke character and turned her into every fanboy’s favourite character. I can do whatever I want to.”

But I loved it, and you’ll never take that away from me.

Though yes, definitely - I’m surprised X-fans in general gave Austen in particular so much crap. I’ve read like maybe…fifteen non-New, non-Astonishing X-comics in the past decade and I’m also a snobby comic book elitist who thinks he’s better than the average X-fan, so I can understand why I would hate those comics. But the average fan…I thought they were all desensitized to crappy writing like fifteen years ago.

Plus, he made Juggernaut fight on the side of the angels, thus imbuing a generic “UNSTOPPABLE” supervillain with several shades of gray, thus adding a supremely dense amount of depth and moral complexity to a character.

Yeah, Juggernaut fans should be happy he’s getting any screentime at all.

Where’s my favourite villian, Taskmaster!?! He has to resort to making appearances in Moonknight for goodness’ sake.

Spawn definitely kickstarted a new genre, though- cape porn. I was pretty hooked on that for six or seven days back in '93.

'93 was an ugly year for all of us, Zephy.

How is Seaguy one of Morrison’s craziest comics? When I think of a crazy Morrison comic, I think of The Filth and The Invisibles. Maybe I’m just a heckuva lot smarter than you but I think Seaguy was pretty straightforward. Subversive, definitely, and layered with intricate and nigh-inscrutable subtext, but still straightforward enough that lowly peons could still be able to appreciate the intense creativity of the comic itself.

Is Arkham Asylum crazy? There are people who read that and became Morrison fans 4LIFE. One of my buddies read it, and it broke his mind, but he became a Morrison devotee.

And then you got All-Star Superman, which should be the template for all pop comics ever. I mean if some person who’s never read a Superman comic in his life starts with All-Star #1, he’s going to spend the rest of his mortal existence looking for something that compares to it, and he’s going to fail and die miserable.

Yeah, I was just listing two quick examples - The Invisibles is a lot more trippier than Seaguy, but I don’t see that as an easy to read book at all for a new reader. There’s too many layers, and they’d just come back and complain that they didn’t “get it”. It’s like when you lend someone an indie rock album and they come back and say “it’s just noise!”

Do you think new readers would jump on All-Star Superman as much as we have? I was expecting just like a type of Ultimate Superman like All-Star Batman (but not as insane) or even like a Birthright version. And then what we actually got just blew my mind, but along with Quitely’s not-completely-conventional-art I don’t know if I’d expect a new reader to say that book’s the shizzle quite like I do.

Great art, great storytelling, great plots…yeah, it’s all there - but I’m just worried it might be overwhelming to some neophyte that’s just expecting some Smallville type stuff to go down.

Like that issue with Morrison’s Fortress of Solitude? Mind warping.

I was about to say something incredibly insightful about Warren Ellis at this point because I agree that he’s an living legend, but really my whole purpose for this post was just to make another mind-expanding musical analogy for you:

Ellis and Morrison are like Elvis Presley and Elvis Costello. Both of 'em are Elvises, but only one of them is gonna end up as a fat, washed-up Vegas lounge singer who’ll die while taking dump on a toilet.

You just blew my mind.

And for what it’s worth, I still think that pound for pound, Peter Milligan is a way crazier writer than Morrison.

Yeah, I haven’t read a single issue of Shade, The Changing Man that didn’t terrify me. And X-Force still stands to date as the most insane mainstream book I have ever read. Remember that X-Force was originally written and drawn by comic book superstar Rob Liefeld? Such a great history of comic book talent on that title.

The Human Target was relatively conventional though, and it was still probably as good as anything else out there, even if it was just like two trades long.

What exactly IS a stereotypical Garth Ennis book? One that blows your mind? Something that has cursing, violence, war, sex, and John Wayne? But then that’s almost every writer’s stereotypical book.

Maybe a big part of it is the art that I always link to Ennis - like now every time I see a Steve Dillon page, I already know that by the end of the issue, some guy’s going to get his nose busted up and spray blood everywhere or get raped by a bear or something. It just carries the premonition of violence. It could just be Darick Robertson’s stuff feeling the same way - I gotta admit, it’s a good fit.

Personally, and I expect P.Giddy to back me up on this one, monthly serials are irksome and it’s ALL ABOUT THE TRADE, BABY. If the only time you’re gonna read Powers, for example, is when the new issue comes out, then what’s the whole point of reading comics in the first place? You never remember what happened last month anyway. That’s why you get the TRADE, BABY. Because then YOU NEVER FORGET.

Honestly, Giddy’s been a big proponent of waiting for the TRADE, BABY for a long, long time in these threads. He’s got me to buy into it for a lot of titles, but I still don’t have the patience to wait the half a year between fixes of some series, you know? But definitely, something I should look into.

Speakin’ of Allred, have you been getting the new Madman? It’s one of the few comics that’s completely worth buying in issue format. Virtually no ads, a letters page, and it’s got the most efficient recap page in the history of comics.

…I was actually waiting for the TRADE, BABY.

I think Painy was referring to Wuthering Heights. He got Jenkins confused with Emily Bronte. Heathcliff was always a badass, so it’s understandable.

That’s true. Imagine if Heathcliff was like some pansy spoiled rich boy who couldn’t even go outdoors because of allergies? That would like completely ruin that whole “I will fuck you ALL up” image he had when he came back to Wuthering Heights.

Good thing that didn’t happen. At all.

You know, that’s another good observation, but I still don’t get why you hate on Millar. ‘Cause I mean a poor man’s Morrison is still richer than a rich man’s Mark Waid. O CANADA! FIGHTIN’ WORDS

Don’t egg me on - I will flick my fingernails into your throat, I’m not even kidding.

I wish The Ultimates didn’t have such fucking awesome Bryan Hitch art so I could player hate on it even more.

Yeah, Meltzer’s a disappointment to me, too. I really liked his Green Arrow: The Archer’s Quest story. Everything else since then, I haven’t cared for. When I think of all the novelists who’ve tried their hand at writing comics- awesome writers like Richard K. Morgan, Denise Mina, Orson Scott Card- I just expected more from Meltzer.

All Meltzer really has going for him is his consistency and ability to deliver his scripts in on time so his books come out when they’re supposed to. But what is that to someone who waits for the TRADE, BABY? Absolutely worthless.

But I did enjoy that recent JLofA (ha, it looks absurd to call 'em JLofA instead of JLA) issue about Speedy and Vixen escaping certain death. Or maybe it’s just that Gene Ha’s art completely suckered me in.

I thought that was a great issue - I was neat seeing him write a single issue instead of all the long story arcs he’s done so far.

Meltzer’s Identity Crisis and JLofA (ha) were weird though - they were comic books that read almost exactly like novels. Lot of different threads going on at the same time, frequently jumping between them, and the entire build-up and pacing to the stories were really bottom heavy. I want to say he was Bendising JLofA, because the first couple issues were so slow, but I think that’s just how he writes as a novelist.

Danny Bilson’s Flash was pretty bad though. Wasn’t he like some big shot novel writer or something too?

---

The current Taichi’s a Skrull IMPOSTER. One confirmed for sure.

Ed Brubaker’s pretty much written like EXCLUSIVELY for DC until recently. The guy was known best as a Batman writer.

Sleeper’s one of my favourite series of all time, anyone who hasn’t should definitely go out and check the trades.

And Bru’s Gotham Central >>>> Rucka’s Gotham Central (suck it, P.Giddy)

The Bru’s run on The Authority was completely forgettable though. As evidenced by the fact that I do not remember any of it and thus have forgotten it.

[box]

Danny Bilson’s Flash was pretty bad though. Wasn’t he like some big shot novel writer or something too?

Yeah bit his hot daughter makes up for it

Not too sure if he was a novel writer.

[Zephyranthes]

First off, don’t you ever DARE put down that Claremont/Jim Lee run in the early 90’s. I WILL END YOU.
But I loved it, and you’ll never take that away from me.

I know, I know. I’m an elitist snob who only buys albums rated 8.7 or higher on Pitchfork. Blah blah blah CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH.

But you know what? I like Jim Lee’s WildC.A.T.s. And by WildC.A.T.s, I mean when the title used the silly acronym and Jim Lee drew it. It’s a shoddy and generic X-Men clone with really poor writing and very little creativity, but I still kept those issues anyway. I’m not saying that they’re good at all, but sometimes there’s just stuff out there that you know sucks but you like anyway. Like you were saying earlier how much you like Avril Lavigne. That’s perfectly cool to me. More power to ya, eh bub?

Although come to think of it, WildC.A.T.s did suck a lot more than usual over those three issues that Claremont wrote, which reunited the X-Men Claremont/Jim Lee team.

Yeah, I was just listing two quick examples - The Invisibles is a lot more trippier than Seaguy, but I don’t see that as an easy to read book at all for a new reader. There’s too many layers, and they’d just come back and complain that they didn’t “get it”. It’s like when you lend someone an indie rock album and they come back and say “it’s just noise!”

I sort of see your point here. But there are still plenty of people who enjoy reading those kinds of weird and obscure stories. People still read James Joyce books, and not just to get their master’s, either. I’ve met people who actually read his books for fun. Granted, those people might be abnormal, sadomasochistic miscreants, but what else do we expect, seeing as how comic books are the preferred reading material of the intellectual elite?

Do you think new readers would jump on All-Star Superman as much as we have? I was expecting just like a type of Ultimate Superman like All-Star Batman (but not as insane) or even like a Birthright version. And then what we actually got just blew my mind, but along with Quitely’s not-completely-conventional-art I don’t know if I’d expect a new reader to say that book’s the shizzle quite like I do.

Great art, great storytelling, great plots…yeah, it’s all there - but I’m just worried it might be overwhelming to some neophyte that’s just expecting some Smallville type stuff to go down.

Like that issue with Morrison’s Fortress of Solitude? Mind warping.

The thing that makes All-Star Superman so godly is the fact that it’s textured enough to enrich the mind of any longtime comics fan, but it’s also got just enough bubbling on the surface to entice comic book newbies. I know people who never thought too much about Superman, and then after reading the first issue of All-Star (with the three page, 8 word complete ORIGIN of Superman), became comic book fans.

It’s like a gateway drug to mind-expansion. Even if they don’t understand all of it, they know enough to realize that they need more of it in their lives.

And anyone who expects, prefers, or wishes Superman comics were more like Smallville can just go fuck off back to Kansas, or wherever the hell Smallville is. Those people don’t count.

Yeah, I haven’t read a single issue of Shade, The Changing Man that didn’t terrify me. And X-Force still stands to date as the most insane mainstream book I have ever read. Remember that X-Force was originally written and drawn by comic book superstar Rob Liefeld? Such a great history of comic book talent on that title.

The Human Target was relatively conventional though, and it was still probably as good as anything else out there, even if it was just like two trades long.

Yeah, Human Target was fairly conventional compared to most of his other comics. It was still pretty complicated narratively speaking compared to general mainstream comics, though. It fit in well with its generation of Vertigo titles, with Y: The Last MAAAN!!1 and FAAAAABLES!!11 and The Losers. I think if Human Target didn’t get canceled (it was actually about 21 issues long, plus a 4 issue mini and an OGN) it might’ve even been the best of them. I’d be calling it HUMAN TAAAAARGET!!!1 instead of just plain ol’ Human Target.

Now I’m reading his new creator-owned WildStorm book, The Programme, and my mind broke down a couple pages into the first issue.

If you want to get technical, though, Milligan did have a run on Batman/Detective Comics back in the early '90s, which is probably the most straightforward stuff I’ve ever read from him. I’ve managed to track down a couple of those issues and they are extremely well-composed done-in-one stories. He also had a run on X-Men and created Toxin in a Spidey/Venom mini. But those don’t count because those were just written by some guy who needed to pay his rent.

Maybe a big part of it is the art that I always link to Ennis - like now every time I see a Steve Dillon page, I already know that by the end of the issue, some guy’s going to get his nose busted up and spray blood everywhere or get raped by a bear or something. It just carries the premonition of violence. It could just be Darick Robertson’s stuff feeling the same way - I gotta admit, it’s a good fit.

What bugs me is that Steve Dillon’s been drawing a few things for Daniel Way recently. You ever read any of those comics? Daniel Way makes Steve Dillon look like a fool. Like you can pick up an issue of Punisher/Bullseye and there’s no bear rape scene. Totally disappointing. Instead you can see Dillon draw washed up '90s X-Men castoffs like Maverick and Cyber.

…I was actually waiting for the TRADE, BABY.

I sure left myself open for that one.

That’s true. Imagine if Heathcliff was like some pansy spoiled rich boy who couldn’t even go outdoors because of allergies? That would like completely ruin that whole “I will fuck you ALL up” image he had when he came back to Wuthering Heights.

Good thing that didn’t happen. At all.

Yeah, I mean how awkward would it have been if Heathcliff had a pet puppy, and then some yuppie wiseass named Edgar Linton slit its throat and made Heathcliff cry. It’d be pretty damn hard to swallow the notion that Heathcliff is a true G after that big crying scene. Good thing that didn’t happen. At all.

I thought that was a great issue - I was neat seeing him write a single issue instead of all the long story arcs he’s done so far.

Meltzer’s Identity Crisis and JLofA (ha) were weird though - they were comic books that read almost exactly like novels. Lot of different threads going on at the same time, frequently jumping between them, and the entire build-up and pacing to the stories were really bottom heavy. I want to say he was Bendising JLofA, because the first couple issues were so slow, but I think that’s just how he writes as a novelist.

I guess there was a denseness to the back issues of those stories. It wasn’t really like that in Archer’s Quest, though; maybe that’s why I think it’s great.

I read one of Meltzer’s novels, The Millionaires, and it was a fast-paced thriller type of book complete with a character named “Ollie” and a couple of Wonder Woman references thrown in for good measure. I got the same impression from it that P.Giddy got from the book he read. It was just a fun and fast read, but ultimately pretty disposable.

Come to think of it, that’s how I feel about Identity Crisis, too. Except it wasn’t as fun and as fast.

Danny Bilson’s Flash was pretty bad though. Wasn’t he like some big shot novel writer or something too?

I don’t think he’s a novelist. I think he’s a TV and/or movie writer guy. There’s been a lot of those, too. But I think I prefer the novelists who write comics. Half the time TV/movie guys who try to write comics don’t even bother finishing the stories they started. Or if they do, it takes them forever. Or sometimes, Tim Sale doesn’t draw Jeph Loeb’s comic and it ends up sucking hairy ass.

The Bru’s run on The Authority was completely forgettable though. As evidenced by the fact that I do not remember any of it and thus have forgotten it.

Canucklehead, my bub, you’ve got to reread Bru’s Authority. That’s the kind of superteam book we need more of. It had all sorts of great moments, like Midnighter daydreaming of bashing in a politician’s skull. And how can you forget that amazing two-page spread of the Infinite City (you know, that Morrisonesque floating citadel on top of a giant flying tortoise)? You must have been celebrating Oktoberfest or whatever it is Canadians have up there.

And those last couple of issues, with Midnighter vs. the rest of the Authority- that was some crucial fight choreography right there. I remember reading those issues and just thinking how much better that was than Deathstroke vs. the JLA in Identity Crisis. I mean, Green Lantern throwing a punch with his ring hand? Pfft. It’s all about the Midnighter using those Nightwing-style escrima sticks to bust up Apollo’s inner ear.

Now that the damn WildStorm Universe is part of DC’s 52 world multiverse, I really hope we get to see Midnighter Vs. Deathstroke at one point. It should be about 64 pages in length, no story, all fighting, and drawn by Travis Charest.

The first page would have Midnighter saying, “You can’t win. I know what moves you’re preparing to make. I’ve fought our fight already, in my head, in a million different ways. I can hit you without you even seeing me. I’m what soldiers dream of growing into. I’m what children see when they first imagine what death is like. I’m the Midnighter.”

And then Deathstroke would be all like, “Oh yeah? I’m the best there is at what I do. But what I do isn’t very nice. BUB!”

[P.Gorath]

Kurt Busiek is starting to do it for me recently. I could never get into Astro City but I like what he has been doing on Superman and JLA/Avengers was cool.

I’ve never read any Authority…damn that oop absolute volume 1…and having to know the stormwatch stuff seems daunting.

[Taichi]

Taichi, are you sure you’re a DC fan? Because, like, shouldn’t a DC fan already know all this stuff? Somebody call the Skrull Kill Krew, Kwick!

I don’t read the Bat-Books.

and only rarely read Vertigo, or non-mainstream DCU books.

[Rage02fire]

I don’t read the Bat-Books.

and only rarely read Vertigo, or non-mainstream DCU books.

SAY WHAT???:wtf:

a year ago you were the ultimate BAT nerd of SRK who KNEW everything about batman and now your not on his nuts no more???:wow:

…Now how did that happen???:wonder:

But you know what? I like Jim Lee’s WildC.A.T.s. And by WildC.A.T.s, I mean when the title used the silly acronym and Jim Lee drew it. It’s a shoddy and generic X-Men clone with really poor writing and very little creativity, but I still kept those issues anyway. I’m not saying that they’re good at all, but sometimes there’s just stuff out there that you know sucks but you like anyway. Like you were saying earlier how much you like Avril Lavigne. That’s perfectly cool to me. More power to ya, eh bub?

That and just about 75% of Image’s big main books are Marvel clones.

Only guys I give originality props to on Image are Mcfarlane, Larsen, and Kirkman

[Zephyranthes]

Kurt Busiek is starting to do it for me recently. I could never get into Astro City but I like what he has been doing on Superman and JLA/Avengers was cool.

I’ve never read any Authority…damn that oop absolute volume 1…and having to know the stormwatch stuff seems daunting.

Yeah, I liked JLA/Avengers more than either of his separate runs on JLA and Avengers. His writing style in the crossover just seemed to mesh with the '80s style art and funky crossover plot.

You should check out The Authority. The TPBs are still easy to find. Just get the first two to start off because they got the Ellis/Hitch and Millar/Quitely runs. After that the title got a little funky due to censorship and the latter half of Millar’s run got pummeled by fill-in-artists. And by that time Quitely had had enough of the censorship and moved over to New X-Men. But those first two volumes are pure money.

I started reading those without having read much StormWatch, either. I don’t think you really need to know anything about StormWatch to get into The Authority. You can sort of fit all the pieces together from little bits of dialog here and there. The Authority #1 basically reads like a brand new comic, and it is.

I don’t read the Bat-Books.

and only rarely read Vertigo, or non-mainstream DCU books.

My mind has been blown.

[Pained_Auron]

so i’m adding warren ellis to my list because thunderbolts is the shit

[kane_warhead]

^^

Man Warren Ellis is good. His Planetary and Nextwave are the shit.

[Taichi]

I keep up with the story, but I don’t read the books, never have.

That’s not to say I’m not still a Bat-Nerd, I know tons of crap about the characters, and their major storylines, I just never felt the need to subscribe, because the MAJOR, EPIC stuff is so talked about that there’s really no need.

I got a web of informants that keep me updated on the major happenings in the Bat-Books, but I’ve never, once, been subscribed to a Bat Book.

that’s not to say I haven’t read any Bat Stories, I know No Man’s Land intricately, but I didn’t until after the fact. Same with Hush.

I do own trades of most of the major stories, but in the month-to-month stuff, I couldn’t tell ya what’s happening in Nightwing, Robin, Catwoman, or Batman, f’r instance.

I ONLY read team books, for the most part (My Pull List is Green Lantern Corps, Shadowpact, Brave and the Bold, Teen Titans [starting at #50] and All Star Superman)

My Knowledge of the DCU is broad and Far-Reaching, I don’t focus on just one small part. That’s not to say I don’t know a lot about the DCU as a whole, and that’s not to say I don’t know minute details about specialized areas of knowledge, SUCH AS Batman, but I don’t focus solely on any one area.

and with so many changes and retcons, sometimes it can be hard to know what’s going on (B&B this month, for instance, featured a cameo by the Challengers of the Unknown, who I didn’t realize were back). But I can still answer some hard questions.