I was using f.mp, it pushed me forward a decent bit but overall, I don’t think it’d change landing full damage unless they were in the absolute right spot to be hit by it.
Guess what beats Honda’s butt drop clean for more damage than c.fierce. Guess what works well against Chunli jump-ins.
OWNED!!!
this thread is full of wow
honestly i think it’s his lack or guaranteed damage. with the top tier characters you know you can get damage when certain things happen, e.g. sagat hits you with AA step kick; c viper gets you with ex seismo; rufus gets you with divekick. guile doesnt have a lot of that in sfIV.
No kidding? Dang, got myself served.
Wow, I gotta try this. Are you talking about Chun’s j.hk or just in general? I find that her j.hk stuffs my late fk and c.hp quite often (can be airthrown though).
Totally, it’s not that he’s is complete garbage.
I love Guile, but he isn’t that great in SF4
I guess not everyone has the balls to play Guile.
There’s a video in the video thread from the arcade-only days where one of the JP players intentionally used s.hk(close) as AA during a TRF.
Tough; Yes.
130 damage; Win.
I’ve also used s.mk(close) as AA against Ryu: 90% of the time though, I stick to the donkey (s.mk(far)), c.hp, and c.mp. Oh, and I love nailing ChestHair with df.hk; you can actually hear them break a little inside.
I really want to suss out the range for s.mp as AA.
I must try this s.hk out.
Ya, I don’t do a whole lot of experimentation when it comes to anti-airs. For a long time there I was on a strict c.hp diet. Normally, if I couldn’t land a c.hp or an EX flashkick I normally just blocked and it served me pretty well. It was kind of funny because I had this mind set that the damage on a c.hp was beastly, and trying things like s.mk was risky because the lower damage would make it less worthwhile in a trade.
About 8 months ago though I was looking at frame data when I realized that they do the exact same damage. Hell, looking at it now s.mp does 10 more damage than an AA c.hp. Hmm… damage comparison time. I’ll even keep it on topic at the end.
Deep LK flashkick - 130
Deep EX flashkick - 180
c.hp - 70
s.mk - 70
s.mp - 80
s.hp - 120
df.hk - 110
s.hk - 130
c.mp - 70
b.mk - 60
far b.hk - 110
Out of those, I would say the most useful are EX flashkick, c.hp, s.mk, s.hp. Now, take a look at ryu.
j.hk - 100
hp shoryu - 160
I list the hp shoryu to stay on with the AA discussion but I also list the j.hk because I think this really shows how low tier guile is. J.hk is a high priority jump. If you don’t hit it at the perfect angle, it will trade with your AA. Meaning that if you throw a boom and he jumps it late, there’s a possibility you will be on the losing end of a trade.
Oh, like I said, on topic with the low tier discussion. Ryu has an anti-air with perfect properties, a 3 frame startup, no charge requirement, great invincibility, combos into ultra off a trade, combos into ultra off an FADC, and does great damage without any of that other stuff. When you jump over a fireball poorly, he makes it hurt BAD! When you jump over a boom poorly, meh, big deal, it’s just 70 damage. This is why I find the ryu fight one of guile’s hardest matches. Both Ryu and Guile have similair gameplans, Ryu just does his about 3 times more efficiently.
Looking at this makes me want to use far standing fierce even more though. Really puts things in perspective.
Also chiming in to say that Guile is great but not so much is sf4
Do you mean fs.fierce as an anti-air Slinkun? I do that pretty frequently just out of habit of using the move and, for those that jump over your booms into a “safe zone” it pretty frequently reaches them.
I’m at a pretty low level of play though, people pretty frequently just jump in / near me…
Once you use Guile for an extended period of time like me and most others have, and learn all his moves and tools deeply, you will win a high percentage of your matches, even agaisnt good players. In spite of the low tier status, I still think Guile is competitive and should not be underestimated in spite of his limitations and faults
IMHO, he is considered low tier because he can’t chain an ultra or long combos as easily as Sagat, Rufus or Ryu. Then again, many others here will concur that he is not absolute crap.
I feel that tiers only really come into the discussion in regards to the highest of high level tournament play. The professionals have a comparable level of knowledge and reflexes/execution, so the disparity lies in the characters they choose.
For casual matches at the arcade or at home, or online play, not many people are gonna beat you solely because you picked Guile. They’ll beat you because you’re not good enough. Would you agree, Hoppa, or no?
yes. totally.
Ya, I use s.hp as an anti-air A LOT normally. It seems like it’s hitbox is very similair to s.mk but it does more damage. On the downside, it just doesn’t seem to work as a good AA at all vs. some characters. I know Chuns stuff it with their jumps all the time as well as boxers. Pretty sure I normally get clean hits though vs. shotos at the right range.
It seems like a strange tradeoff to know when to s.hp and when to s.mk. With jumping heavy attacks doing about 100 damage on average…
A s.hp trades more, but you will win the trade. If it hits clean you get great damage (for guile) You keep boom charge.
A s.mk trades less, but you will lose if it trades. If it hits clean you get “blah” damage. You lose boom charge.
Guile isnt a half bad character in say a 3v3. A few other characters to cover his bad match up and hes fine. Its not like he is a shenanigans character like ST blanka. =/
You make a decent point. Cause Guile’s so hard to play efficiently, not many people play him so they won’t know the match up as well, meaning it’s easier to win one game with Guile than it is to win 2.
At the same time, I think there are more uncommon characters where not knowing the match up can really mess you up (i.e. Dhalsim, Gen) more than not knowing the Guile match up.