What Ken does well (Edited to have video in first post)

WaterSnake · 2016-02-21T02:08:03.000Z

I’ll take note of that. Thanks a lot

Gamefreak · 2016-02-21T03:23:07.000Z

When you say c.lk are you saying crouching light kick or close light kick? I’m assuming crouching lol.

notGeckoRoman · 2016-02-21T03:34:45.000Z

Gamefreak:

When you say c.lk are you saying crouching light kick or close light kick? I’m assuming crouching lol.

Yeah, crouching. I’m actually working on a video showing a more complete version of this whole write up, which’ll make everything more understandable.

notGeckoRoman · 2016-02-21T07:33:08.000Z

Here’s the proof of concept

Gamefreak · 2016-02-21T08:24:45.000Z

notGeckoRoman:

Here’s the proof of concept

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aid-BWw9Og8

Thanks for the video!

Rizhall · 2016-02-21T23:49:27.000Z

I love your choice of music. Fujiwara Tofu Shop approves.

notGeckoRoman · 2016-02-21T23:57:38.000Z

Rizhall:

I love your choice of music. Fujiwara Tofu Shop approves.

Yeah dude! Ken’s the T86 of SFV. Common conception is that he’s really bad, but he fucking blasts people with unexpected strats.

superyo1000 · 2016-02-23T04:18:08.000Z

I just love the fact his v-skill has a large forward movement. Makes for extending pokes into some gnarly combos. He, IMO, feels like a very mobile pressure oriented character…I love it

MGS · 2016-02-23T05:09:52.000Z

notGeckoRoman:

Here’s the proof of concept

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aid-BWw9Og8

This is so gross.

you probably already know this but if you have super bar, after the overhead you can do light DP into super for 426 more damage on this ridiculously good set up.

notGeckoRoman · 2016-02-23T11:47:59.000Z

MGS:

notGeckoRoman:

Here’s the proof of concept

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aid-BWw9Og8

This is so gross.

you probably already know this but if you have super bar, after the overhead you can do light DP into super for 426 more damage on this ridiculously good set up.

That might work. It depends on how late the overhead hits in the setup, and it doesn’t hit very late, so I’m inclined to say it won’t off of that specific thing.

Getting tagged with overhead in general is spooky though, and people are inclined to push buttons and generally wig out. His overheads are both doubly good because unlike some characters, they have dumb long range. Ken can actually overhead from outside throw range, and it’s really fucking good.

Landonio · 2016-02-24T10:41:08.000Z

Awesome write-up. There is one thing I didn’t understand for the longest time though (forgive me though, as I because practically skipped out on SF4 for Marvel 3 and SoulCal because I was not a fan). I was under the impression that meaties (this set-up included) beat out ANY non-invincible move, INCLUDING non-invincible reversal DPs. I was labbing it earlier and found out that isn’t the case though. It’s weird. For example, Ryu and Ken’s mp DP are understood as being “invincible moves”, yet lp DP will still beat out most meaties (from my experience and testing, unless I’m doing something wrong, in which case please correct me). Things like jabs (standing and crouching), cr. mp, crush counters, DPs of your own, overheads (timing and spacing is tricky though) will beat non-invincible reversals (at least lp DP), whereas things like any low or throws will not. They’re basically semi-invincible wake-up options. I was wondering why I always kept getting blown up on the opponents wake-up, and it’s because the set-ups/meaties I was doing DON’T counter that particular reversal. Forgive me if this is news from '09, but this is something I never really looked into until now.

notGeckoRoman · 2016-02-24T13:40:53.000Z

Landonio:

Awesome write-up. There is one thing I didn’t understand for the longest time though (forgive me though, as I because practically skipped out on SF4 for Marvel 3 and SoulCal because I was not a fan). I was under the impression that meaties (this set-up included) beat out ANY non-invincible move, INCLUDING non-invincible reversal DPs. I was labbing it earlier and found out that isn’t the case though. It’s weird. For example, Ryu and Ken’s mp DP are understood as being “invincible moves”, yet lp DP will still beat out most meaties (from my experience and testing, unless I’m doing something wrong, in which case please correct me). Things like jabs (standing and crouching), cr. mp, crush counters, DPs of your own, overheads (timing and spacing is tricky though) will beat non-invincible reversals (at least lp DP), whereas things like any low or throws will not. They’re basically semi-invincible wake-up options. I was wondering why I always kept getting blown up on the opponents wake-up, and it’s because the set-ups/meaties I was doing DON’T counter that particular reversal. Forgive me if this is news from '09, but this is something I never really looked into until now.

A meaty move will stuff the fuck out of lp SRK. grab won’t work because I think they’re considered airborne frame 1? I’m not 100% sure on that though. Lights can stuff it, it’s just harder to have your move active on just the right frame.

Landonio · 2016-02-24T14:02:55.000Z

notGeckoRoman:

Landonio:

Awesome write-up. There is one thing I didn’t understand for the longest time though (forgive me though, as I because practically skipped out on SF4 for Marvel 3 and SoulCal because I was not a fan). I was under the impression that meaties (this set-up included) beat out ANY non-invincible move, INCLUDING non-invincible reversal DPs. I was labbing it earlier and found out that isn’t the case though. It’s weird. For example, Ryu and Ken’s mp DP are understood as being “invincible moves”, yet lp DP will still beat out most meaties (from my experience and testing, unless I’m doing something wrong, in which case please correct me). Things like jabs (standing and crouching), cr. mp, crush counters, DPs of your own, overheads (timing and spacing is tricky though) will beat non-invincible reversals (at least lp DP), whereas things like any low or throws will not. They’re basically semi-invincible wake-up options. I was wondering why I always kept getting blown up on the opponents wake-up, and it’s because the set-ups/meaties I was doing DON’T counter that particular reversal. Forgive me if this is news from '09, but this is something I never really looked into until now.

A meaty move will stuff the fuck out of lp SRK. grab won’t work because I think they’re considered airborne frame 1? I’m not 100% sure on that though. Lights can stuff it, it’s just harder to have your move active on just the right frame.

I mean, not really. I’ve tested this extensively with against both Ryu and Ken. Maybe in SF4, but not in this game. Lows will NOT meaty/stuff DPs (at least not light and medium DPs). I’ve tested it on all three techs, too. It just goes right through them. Try it for yourself. Until I see some video proof and a tutorial on how to time it exactly right, I won’t believe it. I wasn’t aware of that about the throws though.

EDIT: maybe this is just a shoto thing? I haven’t tested this with any other characters yet. But Ken’s lows will 100% not beat any DP.

Landonio · 2016-02-24T14:16:54.000Z

Just tested it with Chun and Vega against Ryu and Ken. Vega’s was the same story. No dice. Chun’s low short and forwards did nothing. Went right though, just like with Ken. Her sweep however, I’m assuming due to the way the hitbox works and how she’s positioned, WAS able to stuff the DP for a crush counter. It can also trade with it. Haven’t tested anyone else yet.

Anyway, more stuff that Ken sucks at. sigh

SamuelVimes · 2016-02-24T17:47:30.000Z

The capcom guide says Ken LP DP crushes lows, so maybe that is what is going on here?

SamuelVimes · 2016-02-24T17:47:34.000Z

The capcom guide says Ken LP DP crushes lows, so maybe that is what is going on here?

gigglz · 2016-02-24T17:53:53.000Z

SamuelVimes:

The capcom guide says Ken LP DP crushes lows, so maybe that is what is going on here?

lp srk - lower body inv.
mp srk - upper body inv.??

SamuelVimes · 2016-02-24T21:38:18.000Z

gigglz:

SamuelVimes:

The capcom guide says Ken LP DP crushes lows, so maybe that is what is going on here?

lp srk - lower body inv.
mp srk - upper body inv.??

From what I got from the video, lp=“crushes lows” so I imagine lower inv. It simply said MP=full inv.

notGeckoRoman · 2016-02-24T21:50:48.000Z

Landonio:

Just tested it with Chun and Vega against Ryu and Ken. Vega’s was the same story. No dice. Chun’s low short and forwards did nothing. Went right though, just like with Ken. Her sweep however, I’m assuming due to the way the hitbox works and how she’s positioned, WAS able to stuff the DP for a crush counter. It can also trade with it. Haven’t tested anyone else yet.

Anyway, more stuff that Ken sucks at. sigh

Lp SRK has lower body invuln, so if you’re trying to meaty with a low it won’t work. Ken should be meaty’ing with cr.mp or s.hp anyway, so it’s not something he’s bad at, it’s just a game knowledge thing.

Mp SRK you can’t stuff because it is invuln.

r0nbath · 2016-02-25T08:23:12.000Z

I saw Momochi always going for st.lp into target combo x rh.tatsu. It was on one of his last streams but it seemed like a great set up too. If it was blocked he would go into fireball. Imma need to try this tech of yours own too! Good shit