77

word, homie. co-sign

78

Me and Jed-Chrizt had a quicky conversation about Hayate. Not much new but I share anyway -

S: Hayate, can you tell me anything about him like what he has to do with Kairi and Hokuto if anything?
J: Hayate.
J: Ah yes, the dragon sword failed character
J: Hayate actually has no relation to any of them.
J: What was his purpose dealt with the legendary Dragon Sword
J: He “intertwined” with Nanase’s search for Kairi
J: Crossed paths
J: They didn’t get to finish it: He’d keep an eye out on Nanase from there on.
J: Know why he was dropped?
S: Okay. I thought there was no blood connection. People always say there is but I haven’t found any proof of that.
J: He was dropped when they realized that a character with a dragon blade was already taken.
S: I always thought he was dropped because of the Orochi deal. KOF already had the Orochi Legend locked down.
J: AHH That too. And besides he wasn’t properly licensed.
J: I think he was a great character
J: *sniff
J: Don’t you agree?
S: Yeah.

Next time I’ll ask more about Nanase and Hayate’s meeting.

79

Quick question…

Street Fighter EX4, ever possible?

Also, I heard that SFEX4 was denied by Arika from Capcom’s asking to bring back the SFEX series back to life or something…x_x? Sano? lol…

80

Here’s my idea of what it would be like. Nasane, Hokuto, Hayate, and Kairi are fighters working in service to the Bushinryu Clan. However, Akuma wants to see who will be his apprentice- Ryu or Kairi, seeing how Kairi knows Ansatsuken and he is more likely to become evil. Doctrine Dark would also be working for Bison and Garuda would be one of Bison’s minions. Chun Li, Guile, and Cammy would all be fighting the evil of Shadowlaw, while Hayate, Hokuto, and Nasane are looking for Kairi.

Sagat would work for Bison at this time, and Sakura would be learning fighting from Ryu. The whole game takes place during the Alpha storyline.

81

That link leads to porn, genius.

82

That link used to… not lead to porn… next time I talk to Jed-Chritz I’ll ask him for a new address since he translated the endings anyway.

RyuKuma - Hayate is not part of or related to the Bushinryu clan, that’s Guy from Final Fight and SFZ. Hokuto, Kairi and Nanase are part of the Mitzukami clan, Hayate is not affiliated with that clan either. Gouki(Akuma) is dead in SF EX too.

Chrno - SF EX4, I dunno. Last I heard neither Capcom or Arika was interested in making another one. But that in itself is a rumor. But SF games don’t ever get up to number 4 anyway. :rofl:

83

Could Capcom ever reference the events that happened in SFEX in their own games? I am thinking that what happened to Doctrine Dark would be a good setting for a showdown between Guile and Rolento.

Also, Ken could mention something about defeating Allen; maybe not by name but certainly in some way.

I also read that Hokuto used Bushin-Ryuu but that was probably a mistranslation or a retcon to clueless western gamers who still believe shotokan is the true style of Ryu, Ken and Akuma.

84

I honestly have no idea where this Bushinryu stuff started. You can’t have a Bushinryu ‘clan.’ There is one Master at a time. At best there is Master/Pupil at any given time, so to speak. Maki’s father was Master, Zeku was the Pupil. Then Zeku is the Master and Guy is the Pupil. Now Guy is the Master and Maki is a… Pupil without a Master who trained under an old Master that shouldn’t of been teaching her anyway? Arguably it’s a lot less confusing if you take FF2 out of the mix but there is no room for Kairi, Hokuto, and Nanase in here. At all.

Yeah, anyone can make oblique references like Chun-Li saying “I’m not a reporter!” in SF3 as a reference to the live action movie. But most of these oblique references come from Capcom USA… I think it would be… sort of difficult for them to reference any of it with SF EX killing Gouki and I doubt Capcom will… kill the guy… and Doctrine Dark makes things even more complex because it marks the only time Rolento turned against the USA Military and he never did in the canon. In short, they could reference SF EX lightly while leaving exact names out and stuff, it’s the equivalent of them sticking Lynn Kurosawa in a few Capcom backgrounds or them using the same Shin Gouki from CVS2 in CFJ (even the same news lady in his ending) without mentioning he’s possessed by Orochi (though I think he is… both CVS2 endings end with Gouki possessed by Orochi or having been influenced by ‘TEH EVIIL POOWERZ DET BEEZ!’ AKA more or less the same thing and he has the same CVS2 kanji on his back too…) but even the merest references will -

A) Mean nothing to fans who don’t care about Fighting Game Storylines.

B) Mean even less to those who don’t care about SF EX.

C) Just confuse the crap out of those who care about the storyline (IE me and the rest of the SF Plot Guiders…)

Heh, Capcom now says that each game is an island and there is no continuity anyways, at least that’s what they told Studio Udon, but there is still evidence that there is ‘canon’ or at least there was at one time… even CFJ character to character quotes still give out snippets of storyline(though the game itself isn’t canon but versus games always reference canon)… um, I think it’s a case of some of us fans knowing SF’s storyline better than current Capcom does… course all of the main SF people like Nishitani, Okamoto and Funamizu are gone from Capcom anyways… but with this ‘way of thinking’ chances are SF4 won’t reference, anything, it won’t have to because the game will be an island on to itself… I mean I at least expect the characters to be older and acknowledge ‘basic stuf’ like Ryu and Ken training together for pete’s sake but they won’t have to reference anything that happened in SF3 like say the end of the world prophecy… course quotes again in versus games like CVS2 and CFJ may prove that wrong since they usually reference canon events(but those are rarely translated)… and if Capcom USA makes SF4 there… might not be any quotes in the USA version but they might be there for the Japanese version since they are used to it by now and which version will be correct??? Um, yeah, with each game being an island, it doesn’t matter… BLARG!!! I DUNNO SO I JUST WENT OFF ON A TANGENT!!! :rofl:

To my knowledge, none of the character to character quotes from the versus games that went untranslated by Capcom ever refer to SF EX. Even in Rolento’s CVS2 ending he’s trying to team up with Heidern, Ralf, Clark, and Leona. So he’s not really against USA at all like he was in SF EX.

Oh yeah, Jerry of Sota was asked if they could make Sota Action figures of the SF EX characters. The SF EX characters were included in Sota’s favorite character Poll too(put together by board members of Sota.com of course). Jerry said they couldn’t because Arika owned the rights to the SF EX characters. So Arika still mantains the rights for SF EX characters. I suppose Capcom using them or referencing them would be as hairy as them using Strider who’s rights are pretty darn convuluted, IE Arika would have to approve their use and be credited with copyright info almost at the intro screen of SF4(making people think Arika made SF4 causing people to run for their lives? :rofl: Joke, joke. I love SFEX2 myself)… it’s a lot to go through because of legal jargon I think… course I don’t work for Capcom so it’s just my guestimate on all that… the moral of this post is that McDonald’s coffee is super strong and one cup will have you rambling needlessly to no end. :sweat:

85

Spoke to Jed. He says that Hayate and Nanase met but didn’t fight, “crossed paths” like he said before. He’s looking to see if he can find a usable link to the SF EX2 endings.

86

Who is to say that Rolento never turned against the U.S. military? Just because it wasn’t mentioned in official canon, doesn’t mean it never happened. If SFEX never existed, Rolento wouldn’t have turned against the U.S. military but because SFEX says he did, then he did. The trick is to work it into the story and keep it making sense and coherent.

Anyway, as far as legal stuff goes - how is this for a Guile vs. Rolento battle? We know who they are talking about and what event they are referencing to without Doctrine Dark being mentioned by name.

Guile: “You! You wiped out my unit! I finally caught up with you!”

Rolento: “From what I heard, there was only one other survivor. Didn’t he go a little crazy?”

Guile: “Damn right. I had to beat some sense into him - but I won’t let you think you got away easily!”

Rolento: “My unit beat your unit last time! Even in a one-on-one battle, the results will still be the same!”

87

so explain the bushinryuu fighters to me more.

you say they can’t have a clan so whats the hierachy?

Where exactly were Maki and Guy when Maki’s father was the Master and Zeku was the pupil?

88

I guess that would work out okay! :tup:

Heh, in comic books after the Avengers/JLA crossover DC actually tried to continue the crossover, get this, without Marvel! The idea got scrapped early on though. I wonder what they’d be saying, “Hey Batman, remember when you fought that guy with a shield?” “Oh yeah, C… OH NO THE JOKER IS ATTACKING!” :rofl:

89

By “clan” I kind of mean more than one, sort of like the Mitzukami Clan (Kairi, Hokuto, Nanase) or Ibuki’s clan. Their can only be one master of Bushinryu at any given time.

I have no idea when Maki’s father trained Zeku but it could of quite possible happened before either Guy or Maki were born.

Back during Final Fight 2, none of this “succesor” stuff mattered. Maki’s father was Guy’s master. Maki had recieved some training from him too(at this point in time you can argue it was more of a clan.)

SFZ2 changed all of that. In SFZ2 it was stated that their could only be one master at a time and it was retconned making Zeku Guy’s master. Capcom apparently forgot about Maki’s father and said Maki’s father was now officially Zeku’s master. Guy defeats Zeku and Guy is the one who inherits the style.

Wiether or not Guy killed Zeku is another argument all together. There is however zero evidence if Zeku survived, and the wording made it seem like it was a death match. How/why Zeku did not kill Maki’s father (if it was indeed a death match) seems like it’s the current loophole/unexplained event.

Maki apparently will be the next to inherit the style. In CVS2 (unofficial game) Guy is missing. In SFZ3 on the Gameboy she is looking for Guy(but is she really supposed to be there or is that an Easter Egg… and, wouldn’t she of found Guy since he apparently goes back to Metro City for Final Fight 3?) Anyway, looks they are supposed to have a match at some point and/or a death match but they prolly won’t show it ever.

So basically right now Bushinryu is -

Genryusai, Maki’s father - Defeated. No longer practices the art. There’s the off chance he died of old age sometime after FF2, no official statement. Guy is dating his other daughter Rena.
Zeku - Defeated and/or dead. Either way, no longer practices the art.
Guy - The Bushinryu master
Maki - A pupil of her father, perhaps looking for Guy to train her and/or a match?

So the style is really now Master/Pupil even though the Master hasn’t actually trained the pupil as far as we know.

Probably the best comparison is Fist of the North Star. Their can only be one inheritor of the Fist of the North Star (Hokuto No Ken) at any given time. All other disciples that are not chosen to be the inheritor are either -

A. Killed by the Master and/or Inheritor - Raoh, Jagi
B. Must willingly give up the style - Toki who used the style to heal the sick
C. Have their fists crush so they can no longer use the style
D. Have their ‘memory’ pressure points pressed so that they forget that they learned the style in the first place.

BTW, Sho of Captain Commando is also a Bushinryu master apparently was a student of Guy. So that would make Sho the successor. But Captain Commando was made before SFZ2 and before Capcom altered what Bushinryu was, so who knows if Captain Commando really exists in the SF Canon. In Namco x Capcom both Guy and Sho are working together, but in Namco x Capcom the World’s have “merged” and that’s the game’s plot. Guy is from our current world, the “Physical World.” Sho is from the “Far Future World.” Due to the worlds merging in NXC that’s how they are able to come together. The other worlds in the game are “The Makai,” (AKA the Underworld) “The Fantasy World,” “The Spirit World” and the “God World.”

90

Okay! I found the origin of the “Hokuto uses Bushin” rumor comes from!

In a U.K. games magazine, Computer and Video Games (Dec '96), there was an interview with Ichiro Mihara, Vice President of Arika. I’ll quote the exact question and answer for you.

So either Ichiro Mihara didn’t know what Bushin-ryuu is or they were planning to take the character of Hokuto in that direction but plans changed for the final release.

91

Yeah, that explains where that came from, thanks!

92

allow me to explain that one a bit.

Originally the link worked (and as of now it does), however for whatever reason the host I guess enjoys deleting my files. So after one of the times that they did that I didn’t bother to reupload them as I was working on finishing some HTML for some other pages. And thats how its been for the last couple months (would have finished the html but then work reared its ugly head and I’ve been working more shifts than before (10 days straight for example) and haven’t really had the time to give the site as much attention as it deserves.

But for now it works, for how long? I have no idea.

93

How does Akuma supposedly die in the SFEX series? I’ve asked before within this topic and if it’s been answered then I didn’t see it, sorry.

94

Its worth noting that Maki’s ending in Capcom vs. SNK 2 states that her father is dead.

Whether or not Capcom vs. SNK 2 is canon is another story. Also, in SFA3U Maki’s sub-boss before Bison is Guy. Unfortunately there is no text between fighters in the GBA game nor endings so we don’t know what happened between them. However, remember that both Guy and Maki appear in Final Fight games set AFTER Street Fighter Alpha 3 so that means that neither of them killed the other.

Maki’s appearance in SFA3U - definite easter egg but I believe she is still considered a canon character. If you count Maki as not being canon, then you would also have to count the characters added to the PS1 version of the game that were not present in the arcade game. How is Maki’s inclusion considered to be any different to the likes of T. Hawk? Sure, the home only characters didn’t really do anything significant for the plot but most still consider them to be canon.

95

Oh, Maki’s a canon character since Final Fight 1-3 is part of SF’s canon. There’s an official drawing of her with Cammy too. It’s her story in SFA3 that’s iffy, IE it’s the same story she has from CVS2, but in CVS2 she’s looking for a possibly missing person, in SFA3 she’s looking for someone, who’s not that hard to find and most likely spends a good time in Metro City encountering Cody anyway before he deals with Rose and I’d think Metro City would be the first place she’d look… And FF2 happened before SFA3 as near as we can tell so she hasn’t appeared in a canon game after SFA3. Guy was in FF3 which most likely happened after SFA3.

All of the characters added to the SFA3 ports for Dreamcast and PS1 were canonly there, that was documented in the All About Books. Guile’s Ending even canonly happens and he wasn’t in the Arcade version.

Well, CVS2 happens in 2001, Genryusai’s an old man, and even though timelines are pretty screwy in crossovers I think he’d be dead by then anyways. But good point.

I guess we’ll have to see if Maki gets anything in SFA3 Double Upper on the PSP in the way of an ending to make sense of all of it.

96

Kairi killed him. Gouki(Akuma) beat him up and jacked his body up good hence all of his scars (I suspect Kairi barely managed to survive the Raging Demon / Shungokusatsu) and when they rematched Kairi lost all of his memories due to getting his Ass kicked before but remembered Gouki’s moves and killed him with his own style.