Why the fuck is Alioune commenting on Bison’s changes? Odd. Wonder what the hell he has to say about Cammy…
Maybe I’m wrong, but wasn’t Bison a bad matchup for Cammy? That would explain a lot
Could have sworn its 6-4 in Cammy’s favor currently. Might have been bad for her before AE
I know I did my part on that thread, you guys seen it. did my best to point out the bullshit and present the facts in a clear way to bring coherence to the madness.
like i said in the other thread, Alioune wants to change the game completely. U could see it on his changes for sagat and ryu especially. -3 and minus 4 on srk fadc. he wants to promote more smart play, and nerf the safe random ‘‘just do it’’ moves.
But if you nerf Bison SK’s and make them unsafe he has NOTHING because all you need to do is just block and you will beat Bison with even more ease then you can now.
Bison needs that safe pressure because every time he does an SK he actually takes a HUGE risk. Why do you say that? Because “safe” ONLY means safe ON BLOCK. It does not mean that during the move he cannot be punished. And given that SK’s tend to be used often, which is just part of the fact that if Bison doesn’t keep the pressure up he gets rushed down (due to he blaring lack of defense, specifically lack of AA), means that if he gets hit instead of scoring a SK or chip damage, he loses WAY more life then he would have taken. Same is true for standing roundhouse. If his opponent guesses right and does a move to counter the SK Bison takes way more damage and most likely gets knocked down which is REAL bad. Thus, even though Bison might be “safe” on block, in the course of the match and the guessing game that inevitably happens once his pressure his applied and the proximity of the spacing that that game entails, the risk and reward and NO WHERE NEAR in Bison’s favor, THEREFORE putting him at a disadvantage.
SO, that guy Alioune doesn’t know what he is talking about because he is presenting a FALSE comparison between, say Sagat, ryu (as you mentioned) vs. Bison. Bison isn’t even in the same ball-park. Totally different character.
Well said. You really nailed it.
Tool wise, it was never, ever in Bison’s favour. It was only considered Bison’s favour when ignorance was rampant (well, more than it currently is) and when surprise surprise Cammy players said ‘Bison’s footsies totally owned Cammy and Cammy totally wasn’t top tier at all C+ tier at most’.
Objectively think back and try to find a point in time where Cammy couldn’t run a train on Bison.
Tool wise, it was never, ever in Bison’s favour. It was only considered Bison’s favour when ignorance was rampant (well, more than it currently is) and when surprise surprise Cammy players said ‘Bison’s footsies totally owned Cammy and Cammy totally wasn’t top tier at all C+ tier at most’.
Objectively think back and try to find a point in time where Cammy couldn’t run a train on Bison.
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There is a VERY serious problem with people overrating Bison. Everywhere you look on some stream you here some commentator saying “Bison is a stronger character” or “one of the stronger characters” or even worse “high tier” characters.
The truth about Bison in my opinion is that he is middle of the pack. That’s not bad but not great or good either. He deserves buffs just like many other members of the cast do.
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Bring back SSFIV U2. None of this charge bullshit (so we’re right back into being baited by hadoukens rather than having a solid fireball defence), or slow ass nonsense. Allow it to headstomp people in the air too if possible (like a normal HS does).
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sHK back to the old damage, none of this “full damage if the dude is standing on your boots” nonsense.
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we’ve been bitching about how shitty cHP is for like 3 updates, I doubt they will listen now.
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damage buffs across the board (we dont have any of the other tools most other people have, so why not?)
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SFxT hell attack please
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make njMP not suck dick.
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cLK easier to link. Fuck this 1 frame nonsense.
@ SoVi3t
You know, I actually don’t have a problem with c.lk links. Once you get the timing down I almost never miss it, and that’s even online. Offline its perfect.
I don’t agree though with making U2 a quarter circle command again though. I think it was a bad idea for the character and it makes everyone and their mother want to pick Bison. You can still punish fireballs, just not while walking forward. I am really good with focus so I just swim right through them.
I would love to see a super psycho crusher or the psycho cannon back. That would give him ultra AA ability which would solve the AA problem.
Make cr. fp a solid AA and I’ll commit to Bison exclusively.
After seeing KingBlackToof’s video, I’m not sure about giving Bison an AA anymore.
When a character has a flaw, people instinctively think it should be removed, without understanding the whole picture. It’s like asking to make Oni’s shoryuken FADCable on block. Sure, the way it is now is crappy, but what would happen if it was actually FADCable? You get a free mixup every time you do a lk slash. Or Balrog’s overhead. It’s unsafe, so naturally, the first thing people think is to just make it safe, but then he would be spamming it all day like a crazy.
Having weaknesses isn’t necessarely a bad thing, because they keep the character from being overpowered. Giving Bison an AA would probably make him too strong in cetrain situations.
At this point, I’d say just keep his design intact. Buff the tools he already has, instead of giving him new ones.
Buff the hell out of devil’s attack, since he was designed to antiair with that move. 7 frames of startup is too much.
(and nerf the top tiers, since they basically have no weaknesses)
Bison doesn’t NEED an AA I agree. However U2 needs to go back to how it was, for sure, though making it faster as exogen said wouldn’t be bad. It just needs to be able to threaten people again though, otherwise it’s not going to make an impact
Well that is why I have been saying forever that I am skeptical about giving him an AA as a solution to his flaws.
Bison has always been about offense, NOT defense. I’m fine with him having that weakness. That’s what makes him hard to play as well because anyone can play defense, because defense is essentially brain dead given that its all about reaction as opposed to prediction. Prediction involves thinking about multiple possibilities and reading the situation.
In any event, if you could never jump at Bison he would be able to put you in the corner and it would be almost impossible to get out. THAT would be nuts and he would be beyond high tier with the combination of offense and defense to that level.
By improving his offense by fixing his moves which currently don’t work and giving him more damage is really all he needs. Someone said it best before, he is just an incomplete character. fix what he has and there is no need to add anything knew. Treat the cause not the symotoms.
U2 was just that though, a way of covering up Bison’s problems by treating the symptoms with a band aid patch and not the cause, which is his broken (in a bad way) special moves. Those kinds of things never work out because it just masks the underlying issue, thus why people still complained about the same old Bison problems. If you fix his moves and give him more damage he really wont need U2. Just fixing hell attack would solve his Ultra problems forever.
Unthrowable Ex-crusher wouldn’t hurt.
About being in the corner vs Bison and not being able to jump out. Well the suggestions listed so far (speeding up cr.hp, giving st.hk its vanilla dmg, and simply getting rid of far.st.hp) wouldn’t make the situation all that different from now. Currently the other player has to guess what I am going to do to keep them in the corner and if they guess right they are out in fact this is probably why scrubs are still begging for st.hk nerfs. None of the buffs suggested that I have seen changes that.
U2: Well I have a thing about not liking moves to be useless, and currently U2 is exactly that. Useless. As far as visual eye candy I like landing this Ultra more than U1. Not sure that making hell attack better would fix U2 either simply due to the fact of how much you have to stagger it making it fail unless you catch them at a specific part of their jump. Solutions for that are pretty much the same I have always said, keep it charge and speed its startup a bit or make it motion again but do not do both.
Agreed that he needs damage though, he is currently death by bug bites.
@stabricon
st.HK in the corner prevents the opponent from jumping, instead of actually anti-airing him. It’s a guess, not a reaction. Giving him an AA would mean that Bison can just react to whatever the opponent does without risking anything.
And everything listed (except possibly the replace far fierce with the close version and maybe improved hell attack) would likely be the same thing. A guess.
The only AA I can think of that is truly reactionary on the ground is a DP and no one is asking for that
It’s virtually his only BnB and doesn’t even do that much damage. No need for that to be that difficult. A vast majority of players who play Bison get fucked up when they miss a link and get punished. I started using cLP, cLP, cMK -> SK as a BnB now due to fear of dropping the combo. It’s not like it’s a huge request.
It was a combination of changing the motion and changing the properties of U2. Put it this way, when I played with Justin Wong, he refused to use U2 and instead used U1. Do the math. Balrog, and Honda were both given non charge ultra’s, and with U2 as QCFx2 he still wasn’t winning any majors or forcing top players to pick him up. Worst case scenario it should be HCFx2. As it stands now, it’s a really rough punishment, and far too easily baitable.
as for the HS debate, when I played Wong, he went 50 fucking matches without a single headstomp. That should show people that a change is obviously needed there (and he only used DR for building meter or exDR for wakeup escapes).
That video made me weep tears of joy. Some of the changes I dunno if I care about or want, but removal of far sHP was perfection, and cHP looked like it was finally where it needed to be. I would like to see the hitbox on his nj-MP improved though, so it can be a valid AA (like Honda nj-FP or Chun Li nj-HK). As other’s have said, when in the corner Bison doesn’t really AA, he just uses sHK to prevent jumping.
And like others have said, high level tactics destroy bison. Maybe if a ton of other characters get nerfed, then I can understand not many changes to Bison. But no overheads, a lack of mixups, low hit/damage combos, and an almost complete lack of FADC options, is really hurting him. Sure, he’s great when you’re facing a scrub, but if we’re basing character buffs/nerfs based on how a fucking nobody who gets obliterated by constant HS’s feels, this game would be a nightmare. I mean try to compare any of Bisons tools to the guessing games he has to deal with with nonsense like SRK->FADC->SRK or shit like that.