i have been using dictator for 2 years, bison is such a control character, which means he is not supposed to be very damaging. He doesn’t have many options to attack opponet when he is close, no Ju Dan(i mean oppoent has to stand to block, if that’s what you guys call it) attack, no target combo or 2 hit attack on the ground, no relieble anti-air on the ground without charge, attacks with incivibility are rahter slow.
I think bison is a B+ character. I am fairly satisfied with his current setting. (firepower,advantages, flaws…)
The objective is not to change bison’s play style and his status, there are a few things can be adjusted to make bison more interesting.
Here is what I think:
1.Give bison either a 2-hit attack or a 2-hit tc on the gound.
This is just my dream. bison doesnt need a Judan attack, he has short siccor kick to do chip damage safely, even better than judan. a 2-hit attack would break opponents’ focus. How many times you get croubled when you just poke with forward and s rh too much.
result: makes bison even harder to get close.
2.More active frames on certain attacks
add 1 or 2 active frames to st hp close.
result: give bison better ability to hit a tech, since it’s -1 on block, but it would be harder to use it as an anti-air, since only last 2 active frames can be used to anti-air, or capcom could make its start-up faster to give the player more space…
nothing else really, or bison could easliy become a monster.
So you basically buffed him where he’s already strong. Being crumpled is never an issue with Bison, I mean there are many other characters with the same problem but much worse, like Fei long or Cammy, but these are considered top characters even with that issue.
Frame trapping and tech-baiting is also something he’s already good at, even if close st.hp is indeed a bit too situational.
As already stated, Bison needs a)more damage b)an anti-air. An overhead can solve the first problem, but probably isn’t the best solution. Just make some of his moves more damaging, maybe cr.lk from 20 to 30 damage.
As for anti-airing, make cr.hp startup faster and lower its hurtbox. These are his only problems really.
But I agree with what you said, in that he’s not supposed to be a damaging character since he’s so space-control oriented. The problem is that as of now, characters either need a vortex or the ability to deal good damage in the most safe way possible in order to be considered competitive. Bison has the safety, but not the damage. If the opponent can capitalize from one good read against Bison, then he will most likely lose the round, which makes him very unreliable in high level settings
First,bison has relible anti-air when he has charge. Ex pc and u1. You cant expect capcom to give bison a c hp good as guiles, in fact, almost no charge character has a antiair that good. Why?if they do, whats the point of charging.
Second,about bison’s fire power: i think with right combos some hit on comfirm fadc, he is good. all siccorkick stun increase to 150 is really a big buff.why? Cos u hit opponents with those too often.
Third,feilong has chicken wings, c lp rekka… as for bison, poke,poke, poke
I really cant think of any reasonable buff or debuff for bison, anything might drastically increase or decrease his rank. we are just going to see some tiny frame data change in the new version, if there is one.
Bolded for hilarity, both those moves CAN AA…sometimes if your sloppy with your jumps or way too predicable, however both those moves are slow as hell and in all honesty not as good as you think they are for that purpose.
Don’t think we were asking for Guile’s cr.hp, we were asking for one of our normals to not be ass. As slow as U1 and trades even if you time it perfect? Move is ass.
Its not as good as you think it is if the other person has the slightest idea of how to fight Bison. Its an ok buff but not great and honestly FADC combos are still a horrible option for him.
Too often? Sounding more like you have trouble with Bison. Or refuse to block I am not sure which.
Yeah because Bison really doesn’t have much more besides his pokes that do low damage in the neutral game. Sure you might eat some SK chip but tbh his chip is not threatening, merely annoying.
Too much and he might become too good but honestly there is not much listed in here beyond a few joke posts that would take him to the point of broken imo. Might make people think before jumping with some, might help a bit with subpar damage with others.
Man… I won’t say I’m a high level Bison player, but what you said only applies to the lowest levels of play, no offence…
You’ll never manage to AA someone who’s not a complete novice with ex-pc or even u1. You’ll only catch very stupidly timed and predictable jump-ins, but even then, why not just use j.mp…
HP-PC as fast as EX? , slide also safe? point blank? lol are you dreaming or what? I think capcom will give him just some useless buff, as they did in the past
What do you think about changing s.mp frame data + hit/hurt boxes similar to the SFxT 2013 values !!! Would improve the MU against dive kick chars and AA in a really nice way !!! Give Ex SK 38 frame soft KD like light SK !!!
Fella bison bros, im arguably the best bison in china. I play against dakou and xiaohai once in a while when itravel to their town. Using u1to antiair is actually one of the most skilled tricks of bison, it needs the player to manage charge and footsie much better, set traps for opponents,putting pressure on the ground, make them wanna jump, and when the time comes, u need to respond a little quicker due to its slow startup. Dakou himself is a extremely good bison player, he rocks with anti-air u1, i had to pick it up. Of course, u r not supposed to use it as often as 9mp…
and for buffs, headstomp, devil reverse might be the right thing to do
Shouldnt have cr.lk 30 damage … well … this would acutally solve immediately some of his damage problems and would give you a better risk/reward ratio … cr.lk combos are bad in terms of damage, are no blockstrings, link into s.lk is a 1 frame link.
Is there anybody that thinks that making s.lk a 3 frame move would be a great way to improve Bisons combos potential and damage output !?
Also thinking about making s.hk a flat 100 damage and get rid of this stupid 90 damage at far range !
I was thinking the same thing a while ago. The problem is that Cr.lk is already one of his best tool, and the only thing that keeps it balanced is the crappy damage. That would mean insane amounts of damage from a single cr.lk… Maybe add some pushback to it, or shorten its range. Good idea though!
And yeah the st.HK damage change was retarded.
I was also thinking of something that could help Bison in specific matchups, like Guile. The lack of an AA isn’t much of a problem against him, as his main issue is to get in safely. Bison can’t break Guile’s defence without risking and taking damage: his jump is floaty and very easy to anti-air, he can’t punish Guile’s Booms with any of his anti-fireball moves, which are also unsafe, and his damage output makes his risk/reward ratio very bad.
What would you guys do to make this terrible matchup a little less terrible? Maybe making j.HP hit lower to compensate for the floaty jump, so it’s harder to anti-air?
Beyond nerfing Guile’s air throw, cr.hp or boom recovery? Add more invul to EX SK is about the only thing I could see working. I also know that is never going to happen, so Guile will remain something that you are forced to pick another character to deal with sadly.
Well, actually I am fine with having 1-3 bad MUs … and I dont want to have specific buffs that cover the bad MUs … this would be stupid ! If Bison would get a solid % of the already mentioned buffs and overall more damage when he get the chance to deal it, than it would also improve the guile MU a bit … unfortunately I also think that Guile needs some improvements … especially in terms of this bad cross-up defense … and this means hard times for Bison. We already included a improvement for U2 … and it will still be hard to punish guiles booms but in the end it will turn from “impossible” to " hard" … and with that I would finally be happy. There are also a lot of guys that thinks that chuns U2 is the better choice in the guilde MU but I also play Guile and have Chun sitting on U1 is really changing the flow in this match and fighting against a Guile that is not able to careless fire booms at certain ranges and without looking for if you have back-charge or not is already a good improvement. On top I think that the SD buff would also be a buff for this MU … at the moment SD is no option against a Guile with some good reactions … ! This MU can only become better when Guile actually has to fear some of your options and therefore you are shutting down some of his options.
The biggest problem in this MU is recovery of SB and that it is nearly not punishable with EX SK and that you dont have a reliable pressure game after a lucky EX SK hit … but I am fine with this.
Guiles air throw has already been nerfed hard. The range on it has been considerable reduced in AE 2012 from its Super range. Ex.SK being projectile invincible would help but would probably be too good against other fireball zoners.
Guile does need buffs. But he isn’t going get an improved cross up defense, because that would make it too good. Guile should be in trouble once you knock him down because its quite hard to do that in the first place. That weakness is a fundamental part of his character design in the SF4 series.
For U2 to have any effect on the Guile match it, it would probably need its start up time halved. Doing some would probably make Bison too strong in other match ups.
@Azza
Agree on your post. Never the less Guile deserve some small auto-correct FK adjustment. Actually on paper you have 38 frames to reach him with U2 … in reality it is much much less … but finally it should be possibly if you would do it 3/4 to full screen … when you do ultra 2 on preediction!
@Azza
Agree on your post. Never the less Guile deserve some small auto-correct FK adjustment. Actually on paper you have 38 frames to reach him with U2 … in reality it is much much less … but finally it should be possibly if you would do it 3/4 to full screen … when you do ultra 2 on preediction!
Absolutely not, a lot of the cast not just Bison have a tough time getting in on him. The reward for knocking him down at the very least should be a free jump in.
Guile’s Boom recovery is 29, 31, 33 and 39 for light, medium, heavy and EX.
Bison’s U2 has 22 frames of start up regardless of distance traveled. The closer you land it the slower Bison travels. The move always takes 22 frames, opponent distance does not matter. There all punishable on prediction but since I can’t see the future that’s its all but useless against a decent Guile who mixes up his timings and uses only the light version. His normal booms are not punishable on reaction. Maybe if your really good you can punish EX boom but its super tight timing.
Even with the old command motion you would still need a significant start up buff to be able to catch Guile. It was uselses against Guile in Super with the current timings.
