What do bigtime gamers use? octagon? or square?

[sgvince22]

big f’ing difference. was playing ranked today, granted i lost some due to “missing” them diagonal blocks, but performance overall was 100% better.

[Tonepoet]

Sanwa does not make circular gates.

Riding he gate isn’t supposed to happen simply because it is bad execution. It’s like getting used to riding a bicycle with training wheels and never learning how to ride it properly. It’s simply a matter of the shortest, most efficient motion to execute a move. By riding, not only are you using a guide/crutch to do a move (instead of doing the proper motion), but by using a guide/crutch, you’re relying on resistance/friction, which can actually slow you down.

Well not for the JLF but they do for the JLW. Also what about Seimitsu or other manufacturers? I guess being a different joystick necessitates a different mold but I’m mostly interested in why an engineer would think enough of it to make the two different designs to begin with.

Seemingly arbitrary differences usually aren’t as pointless as they seem. I think the best example with this are the many different types of screwdriver heads. Yeah, sure they all the different screws serve to fasten things down but knowing that the Phillips head cross was designed to cam out of the slot once a power tool made the torque was strong enough to prevent overtightening or that hexobular (torx screws) screws were designed for use in assembly lines to prevent the screwdriver from camming out to reduce screwhead wear and strength required to fasten makes a huge difference. If I’m working on a home project or want to I’ll probably use or want end users to have easy accessibility to the innards of the item accessibility I’ll probably use a phillips but if I’m mass producing an item for commercial distribution and want to make it more tamper resistant I’ll probably use the hexobular screws. (Erm, I actually have no business to know about the different sort of screwdriver types, as I don’t even work with tools but I do tend to have an almost morbid curiosity about such things.)

There’s a lot of info on this site relating to why somebody might prefer a different joystick, relating to things like return to neutral or ease of execution but not so much on the different gates, ect. ect. ect. However in regards to the gates, statements are kept to a rather bare minimum, possibly referencing the ease of hitting diagonals.

It seems that one have an easier time hitting diagonals with a square gate because there’s more area in the diagonal. I’m presuming this is useful because you can more easily move to an area where you know the diagonal will definitely be hit. However that requires you to put your throw beyond the point of actuation, which I’m presuming is the opposite of what’s being suggested here.

An octogonal gate seems to keep the center equidistant from all edges, preventing you from going over the point of actuation, whatever the reason, ultimately allowing you to return to engage the opposite directions more quickly.

Why circular too though, if it has all the same areas in proportion to octogonal though? Only seems to make sense if you don’t wanna have corner lock-ins for faster riding. Does this serve some purpose in another genre of games or something?

I meant this in reference to square gates.

Could you please explain this further? I’d figured it had to be in reference to circular and hexagonal too as they’re the only types of joystick you could try to use as a training wheel or guiding force. A square one isn’t even remotely in the shape of a circular or semicircular motion, which is probably the motion people who ride it would want to ultimately perform.

If you’re having trouble with a square gate, chances are you’re not hitting the switches like you should be (duh!). Learning execution and doing the move is one thing but proper technique on “how” to execute it is crucial. I.e., if you’re doing a DP the lazy way by double tapping df in SSFIV… sure, it’s a DP but it’s the lazy way. Some may say, “Well at least I’m doing it!”. Yeah, well hop on over to SSFIIHDR or a game that doesn’t have a lazy way and try doing it. Ain’t gonna happen, Cappin’. You must learn to do the DP the proper way: f,d,df+attack or it won’t come out in most 2d’s. So, you may have guessed that learning proper execution technique will help you know how to easily perform special, super or ultra moves no matter what 2d fighter you’re playing. To an extent, you should use what’s comfortable to you but in the end you’re going to need hours of practice to do the things that are still difficult for you to do.

Forgot to mention this the last time but if you’re customizing a personal joystick, my assumption would be that the situation you mention about not having the crutch to rely on wouldn’t occur. Well, except if you actually had the opportunity to play SF IV on the official Vewlix cabinets, which don’t quite exist in western civilization or unless you absolutely had to use somebody else’s fightstick, which I see little reason to if you have your own and know how to take it apart or put it back together so you can expediently fix it when it breaks. Well, assuming the tournament scene doesn’t start issuing out standard controls to prevent cheating anyway.

[fokkusuhaundo]

t seems that one have an easier time hitting diagonals with a square gate because there’s more area in the diagonal. I’m presuming this is useful because you can more easily move to an area where you know the diagonal will definitely be hit. However that requires you to put your throw beyond the point of actuation, which I’m presuming is the opposite of what’s being suggested here.

Riding the gate and using the corners on a square gate actually has it’s usefulness, such as charge buffering, wave-dashing back, comboing a crouch normal into a towards/back standing normal, etc.

Where riding the gate and running into the corners is a bad idea that can lead to execution errors is for those circle motions (QCF, HCB, etc.). There’s really nothing wrong with touching the the sides of the gate in the process of doing these motions, the key is to avoid running into corners that can cause you to end a motion prematurely. There are exceptions to this for moves that end in a diagonal direction (ie: DP, chicken wing, TK motions, 270 shortcut for 360) where ending the move in the corner can be useful.

Also, I don’t recommend the Sanwa octagonal gate because it actually increases the throw range for the 4 main directions while the throw for diagonals remain the same.

[RoboKrikit]

Well not for the JLF but they do for the JLW. Also what about Seimitsu or other manufacturers? I guess being a different joystick necessitates a different mold but I’m mostly interested in why an engineer would think enough of it to make the two different designs to begin with.

Circular and octagonal gates are great in games where you are using the stick to walk around or shoot (e.g. brawlers, SmashTV), and minor execution errors are not critical. In these games you are often holding the stick against the gate for an extended period of time, and are not crazy concerned with hitting a very specific direction immediately from neutral.

It seems that one have an easier time hitting diagonals with a square gate because there’s more area in the diagonal. I’m presuming this is useful because you can more easily move to an area where you know the diagonal will definitely be hit. However that requires you to put your throw beyond the point of actuation, which I’m presuming is the opposite of what’s being suggested here.

There’s nothing wrong with using the gate. “Riding the gate” is usually in reference to doing circle-based motions. A ton of players till recently came from using American arcade sticks in upright arcade cabs, and with those a lot of players put their arm into the motion and let the curve work itself out. This doesn’t work well on square-gated Japanese sticks, so players making the transition tended to use the octagonal gate as a crutch. The same thing applies to new players who didn’t play on arcade cabs and happen to grind the gate the same way. Japanese sticks favor a more relaxed wrist motion, so it’s sort of a misdirected effort to try to make the gate compensate instead of using the stick differently. Then there are people who simply prefer the octo gate because they like it better; nothing wrong with that.

An octogonal gate seems to keep the center equidistant from all edges, preventing you from going over the point of actuation, whatever the reason, ultimately allowing you to return to engage the opposite directions more quickly.

The Sanwa octo gate sucks because it widens the cardinal directions to the same distance as the diagonals, making a big nasty gaping maw for your stick to slop around in, so it feels like ass and now takes an eternity to move from far left to far right. (This is a slight exaggeration. Some people like the feel, of course.)

Forgot to mention this the last time but if you’re customizing a personal joystick, my assumption would be that the situation you mention about not having the crutch to rely on wouldn’t occur. Well, except if you actually had the opportunity to play SF IV on the official Vewlix cabinets, which don’t quite exist in western civilization or unless you absolutely had to use somebody else’s fightstick, which I see little reason to if you have your own and know how to take it apart or put it back together so you can expediently fix it when it breaks. Well, assuming the tournament scene doesn’t start issuing out standard controls to prevent cheating anyway.

There’s something to be said about using what everyone else is using if it’s good enough, unless you like plugging in and configuring your stick all the time when it’s your turn to play. If you only play at home online, and your stick never breaks in tournaments, this isn’t really an issue. If you really like a special setup you have, and any inconvenience is worth it to you, then yeah, why not use it?

FWIW, I usually play fighting games on a square gate JLF or LS-32, or Happ Competition. I think a circular gate has the best feel on any stick, but usually prefer a square gate for execution on JLF or LS-32. Octo on LS-56, circle on JLW. It all really depends on the stick and the type of game being played.

[sgvince22]

well there will come a time where you know where the diagonals are. i think also, with a bit thicker actuator, itll be easier to hit the diagonal microswitches.