Yeah I originally came up with that and nobody ever argued against it, but Capcom are retarded so there’s that
I honestly think that cl. HK should just be Dan’s overall HK normal and Far HK should be the command normal. Or at the very least, if cl. HK is going to be the command normal, it should be FORWARD + HK. Reason is because I always use Forward + HK at close range to do cl. HK while semi-buffering to koryuken. I would say the most useful thing for Back+HK is for anti-air purposes.
And I’m sure they’ll probably give low danku a bit more frame advantage to compensate for the downward hitbox (Since somebody made an interesting point in that earlier low danku hit on crouching characters would lower the frame advantage). We’ll have to wait and see.
And why would they take out meter gain on crouching taunt on hit??? In my opinion, if you are able to not only have the grapes to use a long recovery taunt but also to execute and hit the opponent, you deserve the 110 meter gain (40 + 70 on hit). It would have made it interesting. I also think that jumping taunt should get 15 or even 20 meter gain since it has some recovery on it, unless of course they’ll buff it.
Ultra 1 keeps getting better than Ultra 2 in my eyes. Even without armor break on Ultra 1 and the juggability and damage increase on Ultra 2 (Heck Ultra 2 can be buffed to 500 damage), I’ll always choose Ultra 1, since Ultra 1 has the invincibility and faster startup (Not to mention the Koryuken trade nerf doesn’t help either). But now that Ultra 1 has armor break I think even the Dan players that favor Ultra 2 will give it a chance. I can’t wait to fight someone using focus who will not expect Dan to finally break it. I hope the only other buff Ultra 1 gets is either traveling faster or, and I personally want this, take off that hitbox on his head.
Texas, I think that they mean 1st frame as in its active frame. The first frame on nearly all DPs, are usually grounded and more horizontal than vertical. The rest of the frames are off the ground and in the air.
Also, sam2xp, what does that mean that Ultra 2 does 331 damage on air opponents? Is it like 140 + 331 (HP Koryu + Ultra 2 respectively), or is that the total combo? I would think it’s 300 since the damage scaling cut off brings Ultra 2 to 300 damage after HP Koryu combo.
I’m also curious if Ultra 2 gets full hit from EX air danku. That would be interesting (But then again with Ultra 1 armor break, I won’t do it but it will be VERY interesting to see Ixion be dangerous with it).
For PC Players to try out the Ultra SF4 changes by King Black Toof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i9q34-v9oA&feature=c4-overview&list=UUxZnSkDHvtVhwzcJU5DEjNA
From my testing so far (PC)
b+HK (the old st cl HK) is an okay Anti Air if your opponent is jumping in from a distant, sort of feels like Sim’s b+HK knee but not as effective as I did lose out/traded with a few jump ins. So far I haven’t found anything new utilising the command kick.
Taunts, normally i dont use them but with this change (gaining meter) i found myself using it whenever i get a chance. When jumping over fireballs i mix it up with air dan kicks.
It’s a bit sad, but I’m not that mad about the damage nerf U2 got on air hit opponents. It would have done over 400 damage after a simple DP FADC if it kept its damage. But I don’t really understand that amount. Unlike Sagat’s, our is not NEARLY as comboable and barely have half of it’s utility. It’s a bit too much.
YES! Ultra 1 armor break was the break I was waiting for (no pun intended).
But oh… my… goodness, what did they do to Ultra 2??? It’s even worse now than it was before.
That low danku to Ultra 2 damage in the testing video did 315 damage.The low danku to Ultra 2 damage currently in ae 2012 did 337 damage. the damage is now LOWER off of air combos than before…
I’m actually pretty calm since I’m assuming that it’s still in the testing stage and the fact that I only use Ultra 1. EVER. But wow, I really hope they didn’t do this because of a certain only Dan to reach the top 8 (Cough, Ixion!). Hell out of the top 10 or even 20 Dan’s I’ve seen Ixion so far is the only one who sticks with Ultra 2 most of the time, and even still he uses Ultra 1 exclusively against certain characters (Zangief, Hawk, Honda just to name a few).
In my honest opinion, either Ultra 2 gets the full damage off Ultra 2 on hit, but keep its other properties the same, OR give him the 331 air damage nerf, but give him back the Ultra 2 invincibility from Vanilla SSF4. Either of these is good, but as of now it’s not looking so hot.
I honestly also think that the cl. HK should have been Dan’s normal HK and Far HK should have been the command normal… but oh well…
Overall the taunt buffs will make it super fun and Ultra 1 will now catch alot of people off guard thinking they can fadc it (The first month will be funny as hell). Plus that Red Focus animation looks pretty sick. I don’t think the HP Koryuken and light Punch hurtbox buff is noticeable but maybe we’ll figure it out when it comes out.
Overall Dan’ got slightly more buffs, but the Ultra 2 nerf and the command HK may not be a good idea. But since it’s still a test, hopefully they’ll fix it in do time.
Regarding to the PC Mod USF4 Update the hit box changes are still only estimates from what was changed officially so I’m focusing on the more clean cut stuff like the taunts and the new command kick.
Thank you again MrsHowBoat. Really appreciate the video.
Most of the stuff is really good. Hoping though that cl. HK and far HK will switch places as the main normal/command normals and that Ultra 2 damage becomes higher than it should be.
we’re fucked
I’ve been playing guile since Vanilla SF4 and right before AE came, I decided to pick up Dan. Fell in love with him at the first sight. After AE where a bunch of his stuff got nerfed, I felt that this is probably the ONLY chance that Dan can get to improve greatly. Combofiend said that they intend to make EVERYONE viable, and Dan should be no acception. Most of Dan’s bad or even terrible matchups are getting INSANE buffs, especially the grapplers, zoners, and Blanka/Chun li. So far from the future buffs he may get, they are mediocre at best. They do not address his problems of getting close to the opponent nor about helping his already bad normals actually have any advantage to make better combos. I don’t know if anyone here has any way to contact Combofiend or Dawgtanian but I would really appreciate it, since I’m going to give them a list of changes that I personally propose (I’m ashamed to say that I didn’t have the time to do it early on…).
Here are my changes:
Non-Offensive Changes:
Make Walk Speed similar to Ryu's Walk Speed.
Decrease Dash Frames by at least 2.
Decrease Back Dash Frames by at least 1.
Stun increased from 900 to 1000 back from Vanilla Street Fighter 4.
Normals:
Far Light Kick front hurtbox slightly decreased from the front, right up until it meets the hitbox (allowing it to be a better poke). Increase active frame from 2 to 3.
Increase Cl. Hard Kick's frame advantage on hit from +6 to +7. Increase Cl. Hard Kick's active frames from 2 to 4. Cl. Hard Kick now causes Stand on hit.
Take out Cl. Light Punch and switch it with Far Light Punch. (Mentioned by Ixion)
Decrease Far Light Punch Startup from 4 to 3. Increase Active frames from 2 to 3.
Decrease Crouching Light Punch Startup from 4 to 3. Increase Frame Advantage on hit from +4 to +5. Increase damage from 25 to 30.
Decrease Crouching Hard Kick's Startup from 11 to 8. It can be able to combo'ed from cl. Medium Punch (the only normal to combo it from).
Increase Cl. Light Kick's Frame advantage on hit from +6 to +7.
Extend Crouching Medium Kick's hitbox forward until it goes to his foot (the current hitbox stops right before it reaches his ankles, which makes no sense as his entire foot has no hitbox on it like other shotos).
Increase Crouching Medium Kick's Active frames from 2 to 4. (Increasing it from 2 to 3 is also acceptable).
Cl. Hard Punch is now an Overhead attack. Can no longer combo into Specials, Super, or Normals. (Mentioned by Ixion)
Increase Crouching Medium Punch's Frame Advantage on hit from +5 to +6.
Decrease Standing Medium Kick's Startup from 7 to 6.
Increase the length and width of Neutral jump Hard Punch's hitbox to be able to hit all characters from Koryuken FADC. Reduce jump restriction as well.
Specials:
Slightly decrease Crouching Taunt's recovery time.
Reduce Startup of all versions of Gadouken from 14 to 13. Reduce Recovery of all versions of Gadouken by 2 (Except the EX version. EX version stays the same). Increase Active frame of Light and Medium Gadouken by 2 (Hard and EX version stays the same).
Remove all versions of Gadoukens' hurtbox on arm. Make it similar to Ryu/Ken/Akuma's hitbox on their Hadoukens.
Increase EX Gadouken damage from 110 to 120. Give EX Gadouken pursuit property on 2nd hit so the entire fireball hits air opponents.
Give Medium Koryuken pursuit property so that it hits air opponents off combos (Mentioned by Pinky_Weenie). Medium Koryuken is still 1 hit but will do 80 damage against air opponents similar to cammy's cannon strike (minus 20 damage). Combos such as Koryuken > FADC > Medium Koryuken, low dankukyaku off corner > Medium Koryuken and Low Koryuken off corner > Medium Koryuken now possible.
Decrease Medium Dankukyaku Recovery from -2 to 0. Increase Medium Dankuykyaku's Damage from 100 to 120 (60*60).
Increase Hard Dankukyaku back to 150 (50*50*50) from Super (Mentioned by Pinky_Weenie). Or at LEAST to 140 (50*50*40).
Give EX dankukyaku projectile invincibility in the first 5 Startup Frames (After the 5th Active Frame, it is no longer projectile invincible, and if Dan is hit by projectile during the 6th to last Startup Frame before it reaches its Active Frames, it will be stuffed like it normally is now). This helps his biggest weakness: Getting in.
Decrease Air Low Dankukyaku Recovery on Whiff from 17 to 8 and on hit from 17 to 12.
Supers:
Decrease Super Legendary taunt Meter cost from 4 to 2. Also, as a fun BONUS, if Super Legendary Taunt is cancelled into Ultra 1 or Ultra 2 and the Ultra lands on opponent, Ultra 1 or Ultra 2 damage is increased by 25% (Similar to counterhit damage).
Increase Super damage from 350 to 380 (15x18*110). Has vacuum effect and all hits including the last hit are in stun block.
Ultras:
Ultra 1 breaks armor. Remove Ultra 1 hurtbox on head. Decrease Ultra 1's Startup from 10 to 8. Reduce Invincibility from 9 to 8. Slightly increase distance it can travel before Dan's fall.
Ultra 2 gets full hits on juggle and full damage against air opponents. (Compared to other characters' fireball Ultras, Dan's fireball Ultra has the LONGEST Startup and is the ONLY Fireball Ultra that can be stuffed. The LEAST he can have is the damage).
That’s pretty much all I think is needed. In my honest opinion, compared to the other changes from other characters, Dan players are the only ones that are asking for fair buffs and fixes compared to other players. Dan players don’t want Dan to have a powerful or even decent move. The only thing I believe is needed is for some of his moves to be fixed, for some of his combos to work, or for his useless moves to serve a purpose.
So far from what I see from the changes he’s getting now, they are a bit mediocre but not bad (Could have been worse, they could have nerfed him, again, like every iteration even though he is last in tiers and has no advantage against any other character minus Makoto). The one thing I’m disappointed in is Ultra 2’s damage against air opponents (331 against air). What was the point of him getting full hits if his damage is gonna be exactly the same as it was before? If you’re not going to give him the damage why mess with it and give it full juggle? At the very best this Ultra 2 “Buff” is just for cosmetic purposes (ie, looks) rather than what it should be, and that’s for damage. It’s very disappointing… I quit using Ultra 2 after they nerfed the invincibility frames from it in Super. They should either let his Ultra 2 get full damage on air opponents, OR if they are going to nerf the damage against air opponents, then AT LEAST decrease the Startup frame a little and increase the Invincibility Frame until it reaches the last Startup Frame. That way his Ultra 2 is a little faster and the fireball comes out even if Dan is hit. Or heck, increase the damage on air opponents to 350 at least, anything that at least gives Ultra 2 a bit of a look to use it.
In case anyone is curious, Ultra Street Fighter 4 is, at least from Capcoms words, the LAST iteration of this game. It’s probably the last chance Dan has. Again, other characters are getting frame, damage, and frame advantage buffs, and some of Dan’s bad matchups are getting alot of buffs, and they address those characters’ problems. For Dan they aren’t doing the things he desperately needs. Dan doesn’t need to be good, he just needs to keep up with the rest. I enjoy Dan, and I love his play style and the skills you need to win with him at high levels. I hope he gets the break he deserves.
tl;dr, How’s everyone’s day?
That is a seriously fun list of changes.
Hehe. Thanks very much Krackatoa. Although I probably overdid it a bit since I usually don’t in Dan’s case, but this is an exception considering that Capcom promises that in this iteration, EVERY character will be even with each other and it will be all based on skill and matchup knowledge that determines the winner. I wish they can do something fun with Super Legendary Taunt. Maybe the meter cost reduction is a bit too much, but I am honestly and seriously considering it giving Ultra 25% more damage if you land on it. It’s a hail mary that comes with a great cost or high reward sort of speak. The only thing I probably think is too much is the EX dankukyaku projectile invincibility in the first 5 frames, but then again, that’s the only thing I can think of that gives him a mid range option. I do like your idea though of EX dankukyaku causing knockdown on opponent, I think that is much more realistic for Dan in this case. The normals, I think Dan deserves to have a bit more combos. Hopefully if Combofiend or Dawg are taking any requests I would be happy to share it with them. This can make Dan both fun and more versatile to play with.
Actually they said that every character will be even except for Dan, who will purposefully suck anus balls
PLEASE don’t tell me they said it (whoever they are). I demand proof, which is the only reason why my fists aren’t bleeding from continuously punching holes in my wall. From what I heard from Combofiend himself he said Everyone in Capcom will be equal in Ultra. No exceptions.
And Dan is already low in the tier list (Not in terms of suckiness rather in terms of matchups compared to everyone else). Why would they make him lower?
Ono said it. It’s been said. Balancing doesn’t have shit to do with balance but with making the characters that the players love a bit more viable. Thus Ken is getting overpowered to all shit and Dan is being ignored because he is at best, a joke that went too far and at worst, a joke that isn’t worth taking anywhere further.
Dan is already the weakest. Ono said he will purposefully remain that way. No fundamental changes. No faster air danku recovery, gadoken buff, sure as fuck no change in active frames, dash frame data, hard knockdown on some moves, none of that shit.
No, Dan player, you will take a U2 buff ( FADC or corner danku ONLY) and you will LIKE it like the little turd you are. You will like it like you will like that roundhouse command kick that was given with a terrible hitbox unlike Sagat’s and you better like that too, you better lick your lips for it.
Because we chose to play Dan, so fuck us right up our saikyo asses
I’m switching to Vega
I admit, your post actually made me laugh especially the last sentence (And the .gif to seal the deal). I know Ono can be quite… an internet troll, but I didn’t think he would actually go as far as ignore Dan. I thought Ono liked Dan… But oh well, I hope Ono is just trolling like he usually does on his twitter posts.
You do also have a point. Dan’s Roundhouse does have a hurtbox that overlaps the hitbox, so it can be stuffed by a handful of airborne moves. Maybe they’ll fix it, maybe they won’t. It’s up to them.
I’ll continue to hope that at least Combofiend/Dawgtanian can persuade him.
I’m actually against changing Legendary Taunt. It’s fine as it is because it’s just as it says. A taunt. I want it to be almost completely useless in combos, not even worth the meter, with the Ultra cancel as a fun hype thing on the side. Changing it and giving it all these ridiculous stuff just takes out the fun out of using it. Every single change that each and every one of you guys have mentioned just makes this move not enjoyable for everyone.
Sargaent, like, seriously? A 2 meter Option Select with additional 25% damage on a Ultra? That’s beyond just overpowered, it’s broken beyond belief. It would just make fighting with AND against Dan a hell lot less fun for everyone. And this change adds absolutely nothing to the character as a whole and doesn’t address a single fundamental problem Dan have. You are just overloading him with bad gimmicks.
Some of the other changes are a bit weird too. You are pretty much overloading him with Damage. You want more damage on his Danku, but it’s just way too much. You’re forgetting that this move, unlike other similar moves like Tatsus and Tiger Knee, are incredibly safe, only punishable by barely a 1/20 of the cast and most of those need a SUPER to do that. Also, why would you EVER use nj.hp now after a DP FADC when you can just simply use hk.Danku that does the same damage now(50*50) + a lot of meter gain + setup? Most of your suggested changes just cancel the others out, making them useless.
80 damage on juggle mp.DP is a bit too much. No reason to not use it in in juggles in almost every situation and in the corner it’s a bit too much. 60 is a much better number. I would also make it that when juggling with mp.DP you can’t FADC it, but that can be discussed.
I’m all for adding active frames on Dan’s normals, but be a bit careful with the frame advantage.
I have no real problem with the walkspeed, dash, and stun changes. More walkspeed adds a lot to footsies and such.
I am all for making Dan a bit better, but good god take it easy with your changes.
I would go through all of your changes, but I don’t have a lot of time at the moment. I’ll get back to you later on that if you wish.
Played around with the modded Ultra PC version. The cl.HK being a command normal is REALLY good. It’s not about the hitbox, but the fact that it reaches very high up. This means it’s going to boop people mid jump-in, and cover an area that was previously un-AA-able. Probably not going to affect matchups on characters that don’t have to jump. Spells good things for a Guy matchup (from what I’ve played), and probably Gief. Ultra II damage was noticeable, though probably not enough to pull me away from Ultra I in most matchups. The LK.Danku change was likely inaccurate when compared to what Capcom has in store.
I noticed with the new command kick, it makes it a lot easier to combo a fireball fadc to a command kick. Though i did find stuff wiffing more often due to the extra spacing eg hp.dp, cr.mp
It’s simply not something you can combo from if you’re out of cr.MP range.
Can you post a video of some training mode shenanigans with that kick?
I have the PS3 version so I’d love to see that