-- Weightlifting & Nutrition Thread -- v9.0 Optimized

Go to the middle of the page.

http://www.ironmagazine.com/archive/Back_Training.htm

4th paragraph.

Google it. You will find many references to the word.

Dude, chill out. I didn’t make up the word. It’s pretty commonly referred to.

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/mesomorphic

Mesomorphic IS a body type. I just wanted to give advice to some guy about working out his forearms. And obviously your pride has been hurt because I provided him with some information that you didn’t even think about. Ever heard of ‘Check the ego at the door’?

I never wrote ‘pages’ about deadlifts. I posted one simple post on the deadlift. If that is what you call ‘pages’, you have some serious issues about time and space perception. Like I said, I gave him my opinion on the subject. You’re not the only one who knows a little something. I never implied that he has to take whatever I said and apply it for himself. He can do whatever the hell he wants.

Well excuse me for not perusing through the whole 76 pages of the thread. I mean c’mon, what was I thinking. I should be shot for not reading everything that’s ever been posted. Evar (and YES, I spelled ever ‘evar’ intentional). I’m sticking to you, if you haven’t noticed.

I don’t care how much you lift either. I was just pointing out you need to chill and have an open mind. Just because you’re a bodybuilder doesn’t mean you can’t benefit from PLing or vice versa. If I’m not mistaken, I think this was called the ‘Weightlifting & Nutrition Thread’, not the ‘Bodybuilding only, and ONLY Bodybuilding thread’.

I never said there was a different kind of growth for certain muscles either. I said their are different ways to do the same exercise. The most elementary example I can think of is using a moderate and wide grip on bench press. Sure they stress the pecs, but each in a different way. Now throw in going down to the middle of the chest, instead of the sternum/upper gut, and you also have different way of stimulating the muscle groups. This is thanks to just minor tweaks. It’s the same bench press, there are just different ways to approach it.

First of all, I’m not your bud. Secondly, in your opinion you gave solid advice. I don’t care about your e-credentials on an obscure forum (great forum, btw). And bodybuilding is straight forward. It doesn’t take a NASA engineer to give advice.

Good for you. But Westside is just a taste of what PLing is. Anyways, I’m done arguing. You have your opinions and I have mine. Instead of flaming or cussing people out, help people out who are in seek of advice. C’mon you’re a personal training, train people.

look, I’m not going to dissect your posts again, cuz this is a useless argument anyway…for that I apologize…next time I disagree with what’s being said, I’ll remain silent…

The original question was “magnus, when do I workout forearms, calves, and abs on the routine you wrote for me”

He wasn’t asking how to work forearms…for all you know this guy is more well versed in gripology than both of us put together. He was asking when to work them…also, had you looked back maybe 1 or 2 pages you would’ve seen the routine I wrote, where he is already doing deadlifts…

And about mesomorphic adaptations…whatever, if you want me to describe the adaptations as metabolic and cellular then that’s what I’ll do.

I’m done.

Er, going back to my posts, thanks for the feedback Magnus and leon. :tup:

Must buy chicken tits today. >_>

As far as keeping a log goes, should I be measuring myself?

I am more concerned with ‘being big’ than I am with ‘getting stronger.’

Sure, why not…It’s not absolutely necessary, but can be useful…you can, for instance, see how well proportioned you are…as well as how symmetrical you are…If you are way off on either of those, then look at ways of correcting that…Also, if you are trying to gain size…then a log of weights and reps won’t REALLY tell you if you are growing…only a scale and measuring tape will tell that tale…

I’ve got unbalanced pectorals, and to a lesser extent, triceps-- the left side is bigger in both cases. How can I fix this?

Thanks again Magnus.

Try working out more with DB’s so you know your pushing both sides equally. If you use bench machines all the time, your probally pushing with the left side more and don’t even know it!

I’ve been doing full body instead of particular body parts, and although I can’t say I’ve noticed any growth (not like I ever do), I can say that it feels better. DOMS, the thing I kept aiming for was actually pretty damn unpleasant. A friend of mine considers it the equivalent of being masochistic. I can’t disagree.

Also, I have no clue how to measure myself. Use a measuring tape? I guess I’ll just stick with recording my reps and sets.

Yep…basically measuring at the biggest part of some bodyparts…middle of the quad, middle upper arm etc…don’t forget to measure your neck, calves, chest and shoulders…

Agreed!!..there’s also little things you can do like…on exercises which you use one arm at a time…alternate which arm you start with from week to week…also if you always carry plates around with one arm…try using the other arm! But as juice said…the dumbells I think will make the biggest difference…

Sometimes you just need to eat more. Many plans work, but not many people even try properly. I’m personally the biggest I’ve ever been right now (went from my average of 165 to weighing 177 now) I did that in like two months from eating a diet of protein and beer (Newcastle BROWN ale). Obviously my diet is more comple than just protein and that, yet the growth has been all muscle.

It’s hard for me to gain weight, because i am a fighter who does a lot of cardio. For those of you who do a lot of cardio, the darker beer might help you gain easier.

I just got to this thread, but one thing about nutrition, don’t undershoot your calories. You will not lose weight or gain muscle if you do that. I was quite surprised to find out that my maintenance level is around 5,000 cal a day (at 170 pounds), and for me to lose weight I need to eat around 4,000 cal a day, and to gain weight it would be around 5,500 to 6,000 pound. I am fairly active so I doubt everyone’s would be that high. My first cutting phase I was eating like 2,700 cal and my weight just stopped…cause I was WAYYYYYYY underestimating my metabolism.

Oh and the three big exercises, Squat, Bench, Deadlift, I would add one more, weighted pull-ups.

For straps, never used em, and I don’t like em. Just my preference, and I don’t like belts either.

I find that doing cardio helps immensely with recovery and actually decreases that burning sensation from lifting weights. Just do cardio after weight lifting, 20 to 30 minutes. And I use a high intensity on the cardio. I’d rather go all out for 20 minutes then walk like a slug for 3 hours.

That CAN’T be right LOL. That’s eating 1000 calorie meals 5 times a day to MAINTAIN lol…shit, I would get skinny fast!!! Cutting would be easy, but bulking would be a SON OF A BITCH!! LoL. If that’s right, It would be safe to assume that you are either EXTREMELY active, or your metabolism is naturally out of control…because that is almost never the case for maintenance to be so high…

Oh and if and when you decide to bulk…maybe cut the balls out cardio to a minimum…and there are no studies that say cardio post workout hastens recovery on a cellular level, it may just make you feel better…but alot of cardio right after you workout can be somewhat counterproductive, because you’ve already burned through ur blood sugar and glycogen stores…so now you’re tapping into fatty cells and perhaps even muscle for energy…I think REIDAR posted before saying 6 hours should seperate cardio and weight lifting sessions…sounds about right.

Careful with all the alcohol…if it helps you gain weight, it’s usually not the good kind…alcohol slows the metabolism, lowers natural test levels, and is a bunch of empty calories among other things. Perhaps the high level of cardio you do kept you lean, good job.

What kind of cardio do you do?? I know being a fighter that cutting cardio back or out is out of the question, but the guy that trained me for a minute said all he does is sprints (not HIIT) to build endurance. Maybe you could that as your cardio, keeping your endurance up, while maybe not burning as many calories.

BTW, what circuit do you fight in?? Ever heard of international cage brawl?? That seems to be where alot of the guys I used to train with are fighting now.

For breakfast I got 60g of protein. Is that overdoing it for one meal/serving?

Back Off and Grow!
by Jack Reape

The Most Important Thing I Know About Training

When I got the opportunity to write an article for T-Nation, I asked myself, “Self, what’s the most important thing you could talk about?” The answer was clear: back-off weeks!

Back-off weeks, planned periods of light training, are critical to any serious athlete when structured carefully. Backing off is so important that even those who use steroids need to do it. Problem is, most weight-trained athletes are unable or unwilling to take a break!

Look around your gym. I’ll bet you see lifters of all disciplines doing the same sets, reps and weights month after month. You’ll hear talk about never missing a workout and how a hardcore attitude is the key to getting bigger and stronger. You’ll also see those same people on a plateau so big they probably think the world is flat!

Know a lot of drug-free or non-genetic freaks making constant progress? Probably not.

Unless they grasp the science of adaptation, once they pass the initial phases of training they’ll reach a plateau and set up camp there. If you’re on that plateau with them, this article will save you years of training frustration and months of pouring over Dr. Mel Siffs Supertraining.

Let’s break down the back-off week so you can start making progress again!

Concentrated vs. Distributed Loading

Siff points out that training loads are either defined as concentrated or distributed loading. Concentrated loading is where your training is such that you can’t completely recover from each workout before the next. Distributed loading is where your training load is low enough so that you can fully recover before the next workout or workouts.

In theory, distributed loading is possible, but time under tension is also important. . . in theory. In practice, unless you have no job, no stress, you’re on massive amounts of drugs, you eat a ton and sleep a lot (in other words, you’re an unmarried pro-bodybuilder), your training is, in reality, concentrated loading.

It’s widely accepted that in a concentrated loading cycle you can only go 4-6 weeks maximally without a back-off. While I’m dispensing with lots of boring and technical explanations, if you enjoy this type of thing I strongly advise buying Supertraining and taking a paid leave of absence from your job. This is where my unmarried pro-bodybuilder idea might come in handy.

While 4-6 weeks is a maximum time span, it’s not optimal for most lifters. I’m confident that if all of T-Nation reviewed their training logs, the vast majority would discover nothing works for much longer than 3-4 weeks.

Drive Your Peaks, Plan Your Valleys

When I first read about maximal adaptation taking place in the second week of training and tapering off quickly afterwards, I was in immediate denial. All bodybuilding programs and almost all powerlifting programs I knew of at the time had no back-offs of any significance. Then I happened to find a book called Consistent Winning by Drs. Ronald Sandler and Dennis Lobstein, both endurance athletes and coaches. They insist it’s possible to drive your training peaks by planning your valleys.

The good doctors go into all sorts of esoteric Fibonacci numbers, the Golden Ratio (dont ask), and some interesting case studies to lay out some naturally occurring cycles. The part you need to know is that they show that three weeks of hard training, followed by a back-off week, is the optimal cycle length and will help you avoid bad training weeks.

Why push a training cycle beyond three weeks on the off chance week four will be better? I submit that if you’re going hard on weeks 1-3, on week four you’ll almost always perform poorly. Instead, back off and start back up again. In a 52 week year, if you do three weeks of hard training and a one week back-off, you get 13 cycles. Are 13 PRs a year possible? Yes!

Take a look at the recently published training cycles of people like Louie Simmons, Boris Sheiko, Robert Roman and Pavel Tsatsouline. While they’re all weightlifting or powerlifting focused, they build their cycles around a “three weeks forward, one week back” schedule. Applying this to bodybuilding is very germane.

If you keep your volume constant and increase your intensity over three weeks, or increase volume while keeping intensity fairly constant over three weeks, you’ll simply gain muscle if you eat enough. Note that I didn’t mention a monster pump, going to failure, barely being able to crawl from the gym, or wearing a do-rag and sunglasses as critical to gaining muscle!

Back-Off Guidelines

The back-off weeks will help you avoid an injury, more fully recover, and also set you up for more gains. During a back-off week you’ll feel yourself itching to train, but resist this and only do very nominal work.

Some guidelines: During the back-off week, perform only half the volume and two-thirds of the intensity, but only on one compound exercise per body part. You can also have some fun by doing an exercise for high reps, like bench press with bodyweight, floor press with dumbbells, walking lunges, low back machine, etc.

The goal of this week is to enhance recovery and position yourself for future gains, and nothing else. Eating well, a massage, some chiropractic treatment, some stretching sessions, some serious hot time in the hot tub, a long walk, or a nap or two are good ideas during this week.

By Friday or Saturday you’ll feel a physical “itching” in your muscles. This is technically known as Delayed Training Effect, or “what it feels like to be almost fully recovered.” Full recovery can take as long your preceding training cycle, so if you’re doing three week cycles, it would take at least 2-3 weeks of back-off to be fully recovered. This is called “tapering to a peak” and is a whole other subject.

How I Back-Off

Okay, now for the homestretch and how to put this to work. As a powerlifter I apply this concept by going heavy on week one with moderate volume, a bit lighter week two with a lot of volume, then on week three I go as heavy as possible with more volume than week one, but less than week two.

I wave volume and intensity separately, but holding volume constant and just increasing intensity is also good. Week four I back-off with either the NFL press combine test (225 pounds for max reps) or a few sets of high rep dumbbell floor press. Thats it. For lower body maybe some reverse hypers for 15-20 reps or maybe some Romanian deadlifts. Again, that’s it. I take it easy the rest of the week.

Other top powerlifters have also had success with a similar plan. The Metal Militia guys are some of the biggest and best benchers on the planet. Their supplementation is, shall we say, more “diverse” than mine. They train like maniacs and then do nothing on week four. That’s right, nothing!

“What about experiencing atrophy (muscle loss) from not stimulating a muscle for 72 hours?” you might ask. To which I might respond, “Horse puckey!” If you try this you’ll be fine, and you might even find yourself growing muscle right in front of your eyes on week four.

You can apply this plan to any bodybuilding workout scheme. A great approach to try here is Chad Waterburys 10 x 3 for 1 cycle, 5 x 5 for 1 cycle, and then 4 x 6 for a cycle. Make a bigger jump in intensity from week one to two than week two to three. Your max adaptation really is between weeks one and two.

For example, you could start at 70% of 1RM on week one, jumping to 80% of 1RM on week two, then only jumping 5% (to 85%) on week three. You can train a body part twice a week as long as you change your main complex exercise or rep scheme.

I prefer different exercises as I dont like high reps. For example:

Monday: Flat bench press

Tuesday: Squat

Thursday: Close-grip or incline bench press

Friday: Deadlift or Romanian deadlift

Throw in one or two assistance exercises for 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps and you’ll have a winner. Ten and higher rep sets have a small place in training, but keeping it heavy and low rep is better in almost every case. Another article for another time!

Other Applications

Some other applications that are possible here include:

  1. Plan back-off weeks to coincide with vacations or business trips.

  2. Take an unplanned back-off week if family or job stress overwhelms your training.

  3. Getting sick? Good time for a back-off week!

If you’re one of those gym rats that always hammers a workout no matter how stressed, sick or busy you are, all I can ask is, “How’s that plateau? Is the view nice from there?”

I spent the first five years of my training learning to never miss a workout. I’ve spent the last 25 learning which ones to miss or throttle back.

Honing this approach has helped tremendously in bringing my bench from 435 to 525 pounds (at 43 years old) and my total from 1670 to 1800 in the last year. These lifts were all done in single ply gear and I’m tested randomly for drugs year round.

Catapult Your Progress!

If you wisely decide to try this, one last point to clarify: The first time you try the “three weeks forward and one week back” cycle, you also need to rest the first week. Yes, back off a week, hit it hard for three weeks, back off week, repeat.

Doctors Sandler and Lobstein use a great analogy about a catapult being set by pulling it backward. Just charging into a new workout approach already beat up by your current training will yield failure. A back-off week, on the other hand, will really cause your training to shoot forward. Having a life outside the gym, at least every fourth week, also just might help you avoid that unmarried bodybuilder thing I mentioned above.

About the Author
Jack Reape is a three time Military National Powerlifting Champion and competes several times a year when not busy with family and work. He graduated from the US Naval Academy with a B.S. in Operations Analysis.

*Shu, this is why I have you unloading every 4th week!! See I did my homework to write your program…seriously…I even posted it at a few bodybuilding forums for critique…the only thing mentioned was that if you are a newb you might have the work capacity for the program, but I have faith in you!! heh. *

What are you eating? 60gs is alot, if you are stuffing your face to get this many grams then you could cut back a little and make it easier on yourself. 60gs of protein isn’t going to hurt you though…Although one doctor told a friends father that the protein shakes he was drinking would cause complications in either his liver or kidneys, it escapes me right now, maybe some of the other guys know what I’m talking about.

I ate breakfast plus a protein shake. It was a few egg whites and a piece of whole grain toast. I guess I’ll cut out that protein shake in the morning since it’s an overload. I get 30 from the meal and 30 from the shake.

*EDIT: Just finished reading the article, good stuff. :tup:

Well that’s what I would do. Some may disagree on the basis that they want something to digest quickly after being asleep for 8 hours or so, but I like the amount of calories I get from breakfast (eggs are an awesome source of protein BTW) and the fact that I’m not going to be hungry again in an hour.

Yeah, I need a decent sized breakfast cause the meal after that is usually around noon time. I only eat eggs for the protein; not too into eating chicken breasts in the morning. :sweat:

subs

Home-made ones are probably good, Subway stuff might not be. Plus, I like preparing my own food.

Speaking of subway, there’s one right next door to my facility…chicken bacon ranch totally ownz…I don’t know exactly but I think it has shitloads of calories…I get one kinda early and eat half then the other half a couple hours later…the double chocolate chip cookies are top teir as well.