I’m interested too. Thanks for all the contributions to this thread.
sounds thorough, good stuff, i will be waiting…
im outi
Roberth
It’s “you’re” not “your”. You’re a lying “douch bag”. You kids and these strange words. Go to bed.
i’ve been going to the gym since the beginning of this year, mostly just to learn new exercises with proper form. i’m 5’9, 155lb, weak as fuck. i dropped from 175lb in the beginning of this year, likely a result from my diet in mainly cutting any drinks with calories in them (sticking to water/green tea) and eating more fish. my goals are to bulk up and to become more athletic, and i still consider myself a beginner… i’m sure the laughs were going around the gym this morning with my laughable mount for decline db presses =P oh, and that time i did squats with the bb on my spine… it was hell for the next 3 days =X
can someone critique my routine? i’ve been looking through this thread for a while, talking to several other friends who workout, researching online, and i came up with this.
i go every other day, this is what i do:
day 1-
Clean and Press
Back Squats
Good Mornings
Decline DB Press
day 2-
Deadlift
DB Arnold Press
BB Bent over rows
Assisted Dips
Assisted Pullups
week 1: 3x10
week 2: 4x8
week 3: 5x5
repeat
supplements (if you can call it that): the protein powder at costco, centrum
some noob questions:
how often should i try new weight? i started this routine today and i could barely clean and press just the O-bar using 3x10, more of the press than the clean. still, it was fucking exhausting and felt really good.
are flat feet a big problem? while doing squats it feels like i have to do everything in my power to keep my knees from buckling inward and my feet from pointing outward. i’m not sure if that’s a result of poor muscle balance or the feet.
how do you avoid the energy crash afterwards? i eat a ton after i workout but i’m still struggling to stay awake… it’s not too big a problem since i’m unemployed but i don’t want to constantly be taking naps after workouts.
How is JuiceMonkey a lying, when he has pics to prove it??
While your lame lying ass does’nt have shit:arazz:
I’ll just say some things real quick since I’m about to sleep. Add a day 3 with bench press, lunges, bent-over DB rows, and and probably one or two more exercises. I think lat pulldown would be good for the one of the other days. Make the workout days Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
I don’t clean and press, but if I remember, it’s pretty hard even on low weight. Try new weight every 2 or 3 weeks, but if your form is bad, go back to do what you were doing in my opinion.
Flat feet shouldn’t be a problem, but maybe try a wider stance to see if that’s more comfortable.
Protein powder is fine (though I don’t like Costco’s brand), but I don’t think centrum is needed if you have a good diet.
I tried answering off the top of my head, I think someone else should advise you about your lifting program.
You are going every other day right?? Here’s some changes, make it a full body routine…3 days a week…And the reason I’m dropping the cleans from this is because although a clean and press, or cleans specifically is a GREAT exercise. It is an exercise for strength and power, and shouldn’t be performed outside of 5 reps IMO. Form begins to fall apart when fatigue sets in and you are just programming bad motor patterns at this point. So when I say “push press” it’s the press part of the clean and press, a standing military press with the barbell, using a little leg action to get the weight moving…I’m adding an exercise or two to the routine but it shouldn’t be too much for you to finish in an hour or less. I myself would add more to my own routine but this will be fine…the first day will have an emphasis on pushing and the second will have the emphasis on pulling…
Day1:
Back Squats
Push Press
Bent Rows
Decline DB Press
Good Mornings
Day 2:
Deadlifts
Assisted Pull ups
Assisted Dips
DB rows
Lunges
You periodize intensity which is great…and that periodization looks REALLY familiar 
Try this, it’s something I’ve done recently and I like it.
3x12
4x8
3x5 (unloading this week…use the same weight you moved 8 times the prior week)
5x5…then repeat.
Try new weight when you can I set goals for each workout. If I benched 225 for 12 reps this month, then next time I’m doing 3x12 I’m going to try for 230-235 and see how it goes. Now what you are looking for is nothing drastic, but consistent performance improvement. Try to move too fast and you will dissapoint urself and/or hurt yourself.
When squatting if your knees are wanting to buckle…you probably have weak quads…as they get stronger the knee joint should become more stable, and the lunges may also help. If your toes want to point outward…I attribute this to a few things but it could be a number of things. Here’s the list…You are probably bearing most of the weight on the balls of your feet, which might be poor ankle mobility/tight hip flexors/weak core/bad form. Try to break ur hips first and come back on the heels/middle of ur foot without leaning forward so much you bear the weight on the balls of your feet.
There’s nothing wrong with taking naps. I love them.
I recommend that your “lame lying ass” stay on topic.
Programs!!! Long Post Alert
I have 3 programs to choose from. You workout roughly 4 days a week and want size, so I chose an upper/lower split. It’s also what I do…the first one will very much resemble my current program that I like very much. In all 3 versions the leg days are the same…what will change is the exercise selection for each given upper body day…You can try each one…but to really tell if the program is working for you or not is going to take at LEAST 2 months. In light of that I recommend you pick one based on what you think you will LIKE. That will better your chances of sticking to it. Now some of these exercises can be changed for others, but I did choose every exercise somewhat carefully for a reason, so if you decide you would like to make any changes to what I recommend then post what you want to change, and I will give it a thumbs up or down and why. Also, if you are using one of my programs I’m outlining right now, then post up which one you are doing and what form of periodization. I will again, give the yay or nay and my reasoning. Please don’t bastardize what I’m givin u right here guys, I did this for free, I really want you to try this out how I intended it to be done, and I think you will be pleased with the results. And one last thing before I give you the program choices…if you are training for size…you MUST EAT…ALOT!! These programs are geared towards increased size but if you eat shit twice a day you will not grow, so DON’T BLAME THE PROGRAM…blame your diet.
Workouts are to be done in this weekly fashion Upper/Lower/off/upper/lower/off/off.
Version 1.0
Upper:
Bench Press
Bent Rows (pronated or palms down)
Seated DB Military press
Close Grip Lat pulldowns (use the handle that allows a neutral grip or palms facing each other)
ACCESSORY:
Incline flies/Reverse flies Superset
Lower:
Back Squats
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges (stationary, step out…lunge…step back…repeat with other leg for desired reps)
Upper2:
WideGrip Lat pulldowns
Push Press (or standing military press…the “push” is ur legs snapping to get the weight moving)
Dumbell Rows
Incline Press
ACCESSORY:
Pullovers/Lateral Raises Superset
Lower2:
Deadlifts
Front squats (or if you hate these like I do, try bulgarian split squats)
Good Mornings
Version 2.0 (places much greater emphasis on arm musculature)
Upper:
Bench Press
Yates Rows (supinated grip, or palms facing upward)
Dips
Close Grip Lat pulldowns
ACCESSORY:
Barbell Curls/Kickbacks Superset
Upper2:
Supinated Lat pulldowns (form: think chin up on a lat pulldown machine)
Push Press
Dumbell Rows
Close Grip Bench Press
ACCESSORY:
Seated Overhead Tricep Extensions (dumbell or camber bar)/Hammer curls Superset
Version 3.0 (first upper body day is only horizontal movements, second day is vertical movements)
Upper:
Bench Press
Bent Rows
Incline Press
Dumbell Rows
ACCESSORY:
BB curls/kickbacks Superset
Upper2:
Lat pulldowns
Push Press
CG lat pulls
Dips
ACCESSORY:
Seated Overhead tricep extensions/hammer curls Superset
PERIODIZATION
Linear: (we are training for size I chose to increase volume linearly)
Wk1: 3x8
2: 4x8
3: 5x8 (drop accessory work this week)
4: UNLOAD 3x5 using same weight as week 1
repeat
Resting Intervals for this form should be 30-90 seconds. Be consistant with resting intervals as intensity isn’t changing just volume.
Alternating: (this form I chose to change intensity weekly)
- 3x8
- 3x12
- 3x5 (superset antagonistic muscle groups and drop the accessory work)
- UNLOAD: 3x5 with weights from week 1
repeat
Rest Intervals should be longer (IMO) for the weeks with heavier weights…so…the heavier the weight, the longer you rest between sets…up to 2 minutes.
Undulating: (my favorite, we manipulate volume AND intensity and this particular model is what I’m currently using)
- 3x12
- 4x8
- UNLOAD: 3x5 using weight from week 2
- 5x5 (drop accessory work)
repeat
Resting intervals will be the same as with alternating periodization. Heavier weights= longer rests
Also, only periodize the main lifts…don’t be doing 5 rep maxes with barbell curls…you are going for size, keep the weights for the accessory work low enough to complete 8-12 reps every week. And don’t be surprised if these lifts don’t jump up like ur big compound lifts…on weeks you unload or have lower volume or intensity you may be able to do more weight with the accessory work, but more intense, longer weeks will drain those arms before you get to em.
The forms of periodization I listed are examples and a good start…you can do all kinds of shit with periodization. I’m sure 2nd to God/opticallyinvis/juice monkey may know more about the different forms of periodization and how to manipulate variables better than me. If anyone of the more experienced lifters would like to make any suggestions please feel free to do so…but I will probably have a reason why I chose to do things a certain way.
Hope this helps…it was a very long post and I’m sorry…I may have accidentily left something out, if I recall anything I will post back up. Have fun, hope you guys like this.
can’t deadlift with dumbbells huh?
You can do the Romanian Deadlifts with dumbells…the lunges with dumbells or barbell, or the bulgarian split squat with barbell or dumbells. I would prefer you not use a barbell for everything to take some stress off the spine, but for back squats and deadlifts, I really prefer you use a barbell.
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps2/strengthlab/home.htm
Here is a decent website with exercise instruction as well as video of the exercises being performed and IMO performed very well.
If you haven’t done some of these exercises, I strongly advise you seek help from an experienced lifter and if what they prescribe deviates too far from the video you saw on this website…find another person to critique your form. Regardless of experience, some lifters just don’t do shit right. I see it all the time.
And if you haven’t performed a few of these exercises…then for at least 2 weeks…please hammer the form and perform sets of 12-15 reps with submaximal weight…
magnus and soldier:
thanks for the tips =P
i love doing the cleans. i also realized my form was awful for the clean and press, it was more like a clean, then a mil press. so basically, my upper traps are killing me now =\ i really want to keep them in my routine though, i want to train up my explosiveness since i don’t really have any. plus i really enjoy doing it, so that keeps me in the gym. i want to at least stick it with for a few weeks and see if i improve, if not, i’ll check the push press.
i’m still experiencing my large gains as a beginner, so i’m unsure about periodization and whether it would help me at this time. i’m wondering if i should 3x10 everything for 3 weeks before beginning periodization, especially since i’m trying a lot of new stuff and i want to be sure to get the form down… which is hard since i really don’t trust anyone else in the gym with their critique of my form when they’re doing shitty 1/4 smith machine squats and 5-day-a-week biceps+chest routines. and the best practice i can get at home is with a pvc pipe.
i’m definitely feeling the lunges though, and instead of a push press i’m thinking about just going with a military press for now. i used to have lat pulldown in my routine but i don’t really like it because it’s a machine and i generally don’t like machines =P and i don’t do BB benches because i don’t trust anyone in the gym and haven’t safely figured out my maxes.
i read that assisted pullups/dips aren’t good because they limit your body to 1 dimension of movement. i can barely 3x5 the chinups with no momentum and i can 3x8 dips but not with good form, should i do those or should i use the assist machine? i love the workout i get in the core when i do chinups, but i don’t like doing 15 reps max. lastly, i used to do DB rows when my friend told me to do BB rows instead because the form was easier. since i want to start doing DB rows now, what advice can you give me on form? i’ve seen a bunch of videos but sometimes watching somebody and doing something is completely different as i’ve learned many times on my deadlifts and squats.
so now i’m thinking, 3 days a week,:
day 1-
hang clean and press
squat
bb lunges
db rows
good mornings
decline or flat db press
day 2-
deadlift
standing military press
dips
pullups
bb rows
If you can’t do alot of dips in good form and can’t do a bunch of pull ups…then start somewhere else…eventually working back to them…you can do close grip bench presses and Lat Pulldowns to strengthen the corresponding muscle groups.
I outlined a good program for you to start with using, for the most part, the exercises you are already doing…but whatever. Try and balance out ur program a little bit. If you are going to do cleans then you are going to have to realize that it is a technique HEAVY movement. You need to do 5 reps or less with submaximal weight.
MagnusMadness: Did you ever write that program out(where the days were based on pulling, pushing and legs)? I definently need a new one but I am too lazy to make one for myself.
before i pick, i have some questions:
-
When you say “incline press” is this an incline bench press? If so, with dumbells or barbell?
-
When you say “dumbell rows”, is this one handed dumbell rows? or is it like barbell rows but with dumbells? (basically you pulling up dumbells in both hands at the same time?)
-
“CG lat pulls” <— close grip lat pulls? with supinted grip?
-
For periodization: so do you increase weight the next set? so for example, first week is 3x8 so first set is done, the second set do you want me to increase weight? and then increase weight again the last set. OR do you want us to do whatever weight we can do 3x8 with even if it is the same weight each set?
-
The 4th week you say “unload” what do you mean by this because it is 5x5 or 3x5 with weight from week 1, which i assume will be less than then what would have gotten to by week 4…so you are doing light weight and these sets should be easy at lower reps and light weight?
im outi
Roberth
ps…like i said i will give this 3 months, but if you say that it only needs 2 months then ill run with that, also, what happens after these 2 months? what would you do, try another version? i am assuming that is what you would do, or write up another program based on where you got at that point…at least that is what i do, i tend to think about another program based on where i get after 3 months…
On the days “off” would cardio be good?
Yes, you can use either…but don’t do all your pressing movements with a bar. If you flat bench press with a bar, incline press with dumbells…this just takes some pressure off the shoulder joints…But if you pick one…stick with it for the entirety of the program. If you are constantly switching say grips and switching up say squat stance or switching between dumbells or a barbell with the same exercises, the weight you move will also change constantly, making it harder to gage whether or not you are actually progressing in the weights department and/or make it more difficult to set goals each month. Also by switching things up you won’t be aware of what weight you can move x amount of times. I.E. “I can press 100lbs 10 times with a barbell, but I don’t know how many times I can press 50lb dumbells…”
It’s important that you stick to what you are doing and write your numbers down now that you are periodizing your workouts. I couldn’t tell you what I benched last month for 12 reps…or if I got all my reps in on the last set… feel me??
yes, one arm at a time.
yes, close grip lat pulls. Use the handle from the pulley row station…you know the one where your hands are close together and ur palms are facing each other??
When your palms are facing each other it’s called a neutral grip. When your palms are facing up as in a dumbell curl, it’s supinated grip…or if you are say doing reverse curls where your palms are facing down, it’s pronated grip…The main difference between the two on the pulling movements in the programs I outline is that when you say do rows with a pronated grip, more emphasis will be placed on the rear delts and traps through shoulder abduction…when you do the same bent rows with a supinated grip (yates rows) it places more emphasis on the biceps. Both articulations work the lats.
It’s periodized weekly. So ur first week would be 3 sets of 8 for every exercise. excluding accessory work…that is all done between 8 and 12 reps. Pick a weight that you can move for all 3 sets for 8 reps…don’t pyramid up or down or anything like that. You shouldn’t train to failure all the time…so ur first set maybe you could’ve done 10, just do 8…and try to get 8 reps the next two sets as well. The second week you will do 4 sets of 8 (this is the linear model) and the 3rd week 5x8…the 4th week you will do 3x5 and you will look back at how much weight you used the first week and use that. This allows some of the fatigue you’ve been building up for the past month to dissipate…here’s an example
My first week I bench 200 for 8 reps…on the 4th week I’m going to bench 200 for 5 reps…so naturally it will be a light week, and will allow me to more fully recover.
BTW…I really don’t like the linear model…I could’ve gotten more complicated with linear periodization but I don’t like linear models in general so I didn’t…that model is a poor example…You would be much better off with the alternating or undulating models I posted.
You can run the program as long as you like…I said at LEAST two months because at the 2 month mark you will have done each week twice. I’ve been doing my current split…(tweaking as I go) for the past FEW months…as long as it doesn’t get stale, you don’t HAVE to change anything. I myself like to try new stuff, kinda test my knowledge on a real person, feel me? When I get bored with this I might try full body routines…if I don’t like it, or it gets stale, I plan on changing biometers.
Here ya go…
Push:
Bench Press
Push Press
Incline Press
Dips
Overhead Tricep extensions
Legs:
Squats
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Hip Extensions
Pull:
Bent Rows
Lat Pulldowns
DB rows
Close Grip lat pulldowns
BB curls
Use one of the forms of periodization from my other post…
Just so you guys know…these are kinda general programs. If I could see your gym and what you are capable of and asses ur strengths and weaknesses…it would be very different. But I hope this helps and perhaps changes some of u guys minds about training methods and protocols and really pushes you to the next level…
MAX-OT = GREAT GAINS (At least for me anyway)
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Max-Ot_Complete_Routine/m_390/tm.htm
Read it, understand it then hit the weights.
DRADIX
Thanks.
Ima start it on Thursday, since I did my legs earlier today.
Whats a hip extension?