guile is cheap as fuck, and always has been.
but being lame is his character design, so whatever.
you dont see dhalsim players purposely getting into close range battles, or ryu and sagat mains never throwing fireballs, so keep laming it out
Why is this thread still alive?
There’s no such thing as “cheap.”
Guile by design is a defensive character who wants to be 3/4 to a full screen away so that he can zone out his opponents. He always has been, he always will be. In some games, he is able to apply decent offensive pressure, but there are always characters who have a better offense than him, however, few characters have as many tools for defense.
If Guile is cheap character, then Ryu obviously is definately the cheaper one. Yes, many Ryu players love to complain how Guile is being cheap and spamming SB. Try watch any Guile vs Ryu match, try to count the SB vs HDK, see who spam more.
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No way Guile can beat Ryu’s fireball spam. Not to mention Ryu has many cheap tricks with solid moves, and Guile has limited tricks with many broken moves.
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The famous suicide kick - Upside Down Kick, Double Swipe Kick, if blocked or accidentally executed, prepare to eat combo.
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Ryu - light SRK, HDK, Tatsu, are the moves relatively safe to execute on random basis
Guile - FK is too risky, even light FK are too unsafe and easily punishable, leaving only SB that Guile can safely depend on. -
Ryu - Punishment use Hard SRK, without EX
Guile - Punishment use EX.FK, waste one EX bar -
Ryu - links are easy to execute - c.mp > c.mp > you_named_it
Guile - links are hard to execute, and easy to misexecute -
Ryu - Can easily escape corner by jump Tatsu, get out of jail is free
Guile - You are pinned down in the corner, fight for life -
Ryu - Can easily Tatsu a SB Guile in the face
Guile - has nothing to avoid HDK -
Ryu - Tick throw is common, it is easy for Ryu.
Guile - Tick throw is uncommon, because Guile range is bad for tick throw. See the point?
Tick Throw is cheap tricks. Simply because it is a low-risk-high-reward. In fact, Throw is the lowest risk among all moves, with relatively highest reward. If successful, you get a nice bonus 100+ hit points, you floor your opponent (see how rewarding is throw?). if unsuccessful, you got teched, and reset (no penalty and no risk involved at all!). So which one is the cheaper character? Guile or Ryu?Capcom must nerf throws, or at least put some risk into it.
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Ryu - FADC Ultra is common, because it is an easy execute move, it is the first thing you learn as a Ryu player
Guile - FADC Ultra is uncommon, because difficulty is to the extreme for charge character, it is the last thing you learn as a Guile player -
Ryu - Crossup is easy and common, and uses hard kick dealing with maximum damage possible
Guile -Crossup is difficult and uncommon, and uses light kick! (See the big difference? What a joke, and it is so sad for Guile) -
Ryu - Jump over Guile’s SB with Hard Kick, prepare to follow up with cr.HP xx SRK xx FADC Crap. Because Guile’s cr.HP is somehow for some weird reason is ineffective AA (hit box problem), plus Guile can’t execute FK in time, even if Guile managed to FK, for some reason, it is ineffective against AA in situation like this (also because of hit box problem). Guile has only one react option - Block. Guile prepare to receive all sorts of Ryu’s mixup (tick throw is one of them). This ever happened in SF2
Guile - Jump over Ryu’s HDK, also prepare to eat Ryu’s SRK (follow by FADC Crap). Either Ryu jumps over Guile’s SB or Guile jumps over Ryu’s HDK, Guile still on the disadvantage and high risk side. -
Ryu - has THREE crouching cancellable moves - cr.mp, cr.hp, cr.mk! Ryu can cr.mp/cr.hp/cr.mk xx to any any SRK/HDK/Tatsu.
Guile - has only ONE pathetic crouching cancellable move - cr.mp! Sad case, but true. I really don’t understand why Guile cr.hp is not cancellable.
i. Since Ryu can cancel cr.hp, why can’t Guile??
ii. If Guile can cancel st.hp, why can’t cr.hp??
iii. If Guile cr.mp is cancellable, why can’t cr.mk??
Guile has to use st.HP xx FK for maximum damage, precise execution is required. If misexecuted, it may become just cr.HP, or worst - became The D@mn Shade, and it is so embarrassing. So Guile players always stay conservative, use cr.MP xx FK, dealing only with very minimum damage. -
Ryu has TWO double hit normal moves - fw.MP and fw.HP, EX-less normal moves that can easily deal any FA or any damage-absorbing moves
Guile has NO double hit normal moves -dealing with FA you have only FK, or EX SB. No, the double swipe kick is too slow to deal with FA, it is in fact a Suicide Kick that looking for trouble. If you are not charged up for FK or SB or no EX, you can either jump, or prepare to eat FA. -
Ryu both forward and backward grab recovery is fast, and have plenty of time to do most moves including a back dash > jump forward Tatsu crossup attempt. Common to Ryu players
Guile forward grab (body slam) recovery is slow, you only have enough time to add a SB chipping, remember grab is always natural to be a forward grab. -
Ryu has multiple good crossups. Including Air-Tatsu (crossup or non-crossup), HK, once you guessed wrong direction, prepare to get floored or eat combo.
Guile has nothing for crossup except LK. -
Ryu can easily SRK a jumping opponent and follow by EX SRK, EX HDK, or Ultra 1 for a free extra damage.
You never see Guile follow anything after FK a jumping opponent and follow by EX FK, EX SB or Ultra, simply because either the charging time is not enough for Guile to perform that anything else before the opponent hit the floor (except for floaty characters like Dhalsim). -
Ryu has shortcut motion for SRK: :dp: can be simplified by :df: :d: :df: - a great great practical shortcut for SRK. while maintaining crouching state, also because of this:
i. no way Ryu can misexcute SRK for HDK
ii. crouching SRK always hit deep
iii. lowest risk highest reward. Ryu does not need to standup for SRK.
Guile has so-called shortcut, not only it is impractical, also it is only applicable to Super or U1. the shortcut is irrlelevant if you use Ultra 2.
If SRK can be done without standing up for Ryu, why can’t Guile have the same shortcut for SB? Why SB must end strictly with :r: but not :df:? if :df: is acceptable, it will:
i. Guile will never misexecute SB as jump forward + punch
ii. Guile can maintain crouch-charge even SB is released. (Why Capcom want to restrict Guile not to FK after SB?!) That way, Guile not only can utilise FK more than now since FK is on the high risk side, much higher than Ryu’s SRK, also it can prevent crossup better instead of keep eating crossup and nothing practically Guile can do about it.
Just to name a few problems, and the list goes on. I don’t see much chance in Guile against Ryu, if you see youtube, most of the time Guile hardly in winning favour against Ryu
Dispite Guile has the fastest EX projectile, viewtiful air-grab, beefy normals, fancy SBwall, Guile always on the losing side compare or against Ryu.
actually Guile can do pretty well in a projectile war with ryu.
also, you guys shouldnt get trolled so easy.
cheap is another word for really good when it comes to fighters
calvinfoo you made a very good point with the comparison of ryu and guile
Cheap?? in a positive way? lol now that’s a new one… every time I was called cheap it was in a negative way.
my 2 cents here on the guile ryu match up.
ryu empty cross up: tech, srk, ex tatsu, srk>fadc>ultra
guile empty cross up: tech
This the main thing I am so affraid of good ryus, if you have not seen ryus play like this, you havent been against a good one that mixes all his shit besides the many ambiguous cross up settings.
I stil believe that guile outzones ryu in super.
I disagree. In fireball war, Guile always on the losing side, Guile’s charging projectile still no match to Ryu motion projectile. after a few rounds, you will soon notice Guile has to jump to avoid and continue the war simply because Guile’s SB charging time requires longer time than it looks.
That is a very good analysis. Not to mention ryu can be just as effective as a “turtling” character.
Hadouken
You jumped? lp SRK coming up.
Hadoken
Trying to jump from distance? Roundhouse AA served.
guile might be in a little disadvantage because of the charge time but he can pretty much stop 5-6 hadokens before he is forced to jump or block. From far away, ryu has to watch for ex sonic boom, up close tatsu and backfist can punish both characters, tatsu involves more risk
That’s why some people called it Super Ryu Fighter and also 30% of the players are using Ryu. In fact I suspect more, everytime I go online, you can met countless Ryus.
In Ryu matchup, Guile cannot afford to be trapped in the corner by a good Ryu. Guile doesn’t have to get Ryu in corner to get a significant advantage. For me, the most important combo in Ryu matchup is j.hk, backfist at long ranges where c.mp will miss.
I agree with calvinfoo about everything that he said. However, what gives Guile the advantage is his SB and the range of his kick pokes. C.hp into no big damage is the reason why Ryu keeps trying to jump in on Guile, and it’s for that very reason that Ryu would unknowingly create big damage unto himself by thinking that it’s only 100 dmg lost per try and that he would get more out of risking 100 dmg if he successfully jumps in and you eat a full combo.
not only that if the guile player uses a pad… it can be a pain on the left thumb after awhile, I should know im a pad player.
I agree with you, Ryu is cheaper than Guile because Ryu have everything, easier FADC setup than Guile,and more damage because U2(Sonic hurricane) isnt full hit after Flash Kick FADC
so I said Ryu Vs Guile 6-4,disadvantage for guile,bad match up,many ppl said its even,5-5 or 6-4 for guile but the fact is Guile is not same level as Ryu,as seen on you tube
Despite my comments I believe Guile > Ryu tier list.
Ryu has better comeback potential or a random srk to fadc ultra that can determine the end of a match. Let us not forget what this thread is all about.
Guile cheap compared to RYU? NO . Ryu can administer greater damage in so many different ways guile cant.
Hey Sketch_of_Bmore, I have played you a few times online before. You have a decent Guile! 
From a casual perspective, most people do and will continue to consider Guile to be “cheap”. But if you are in it to win it, which most people are, then you couldn’t ask for a better character. It goes without saying though, most people should just play who they are most comfortable with/who they like etc.
Street Fighter is built around Ryu. Everything in Street Fighter is built based on what Ryu can do. If Ryu can’t utilise the machanism, it won’t be part of the game. Other characters are mainly just “Entertainers” built around the Street Fighter system mainly just to entertain Ryu. No doublt SF is all about Ryu, but Capcom really overbais towards Ryu in SF4, making other characters is so fustrating to play against him.
Capcom must really think and work hard on this, to balance up the overall popularity. Currently Ryu takes the popularity of 30% of all characters, the remaining 70% are shared among all 35 characters = 2% each characters. Popular characters deserved to be nerved, low-tier characters are deserved to be balfed to even up the load. Complex characters are unpopular because it is so complex, and not rewarding, so less popular it is. Imagine what if Gen, Rose or Dan can deal 10% more damage than usual, and you shall see how many players will start to look into these characters seriously? Forget about even if Gen can practically do 70% combo damage, if Gen can do it, why not? Just to spread the load to all other chracters. I am so tired to see XBL or PSN loaded with countless Ryus.
You ought to try playing Super sf4.
Yes, the best way to balance a fighting game is for character strength to be tweaked in direct proportion to their popularity. Right.
Have you ever considered the fact that maybe, people pick characters not based on how strong that character is but simply how much they like them? As a character?
Ryu is the icon of Street Fighter that everyone identifies with and is familiar with. To a lot of people, Ryu, with his fireball, dragon punch and hurricane kick, -IS- Street Fighter. And you wonder why so many people play as him? Half the people that play Street Fighter have absolutely no idea who anybody is outside of the original SF2 cast and have 0 emotional attachment or preference to them. Gen? Who the hell is this shriveled up old guy and why would I want to play him when I have a bad-ass that shoots fire from his hands and has the most iconic uppercut of all time?
Also, I agree with the above. Perhaps you should try Super SF4.
Nerf his sonic boom back to vanilla and you will never hear a word from me.