45

newbie chun player asking for help vs ryu too…

hm… what do you guys usually when you score a knockdown? when i try to do a block string starting with cr.lk, i always get hit by reversal DPs. if i block, ryu can just FADC out of the DP and is still safe. df.HK sometimes trade with a shoryuken, resulting i take more damage…
walk up and throw cant be used all the time… really struggling on what to do.

also i found ryu’s hurricane kick/cr.mk/overhead mixup very annoying. i was playing with my friend today, he always mixup one of these three after a cr.lk - cr.lp, i just couldnt find a real solution to it… i mean… the hurricane kick is insanely safe upon block, and the chip damage is so high that when i block i feel i almost eat a hadouken

46

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=195940
This thread is pure gold, basicaly try the close/far dance a little, and make them fear to wiff a DP (CL.HK xx EX legs is an easy and safe damage).

It wiffs against crouched opponents, and can be punished with CR.HK. Be careful, some ryus like to throw on landing if near to you.

47

I’m a Ryu player and my wife is a Chun-Li. She consistently punishes me for jump-ins with c.RH the hitbox and priority for he c.RH is ridiculous, and beats my jump-in every time. the only times I succeed in a jump in is off a poorly executed Kikouken or a whiff Hazan Shuu, and I can’t even count the number of times she has Hosenka’d my ass through one of my Hadokens. Used correctly, Ryu has a very difficult time defeating Chun-Li.

EDIT: Wow, talk about reviving a dead thread, I didn’t even realize it was from over a year ago… lol.

48

Though Chun has to work harder to get a life lead with the right Ryu player.

49

kind of mad right now i have not seen this list before.

50

When fighting Ryu I typically try the following three things (This is of course not everything I do)

  1. Get him in the corner, fireball to keep him stationed and attack/throw repeat. I typically find that when you throw a fireball and use cr.lk at the same time it sets up for ex legs then ultra pretty consistently. Lots of time to hit confirm too. Most Ryus want to turtle in this match, so getting them to back up should be easy most of the time.

  2. When you have U1 wait for them to throw a random focus attack and hit it. So many of them just throw them out there its just as bad as throwing a fireball sometimes

  3. try to get them to jump Chun li hands down beats ryu in the air(j.mk, throw, fp). Her most underrated move is jf.mk. theres so much range to it you can even own guiles air throw with it.

51

  1. However, any Ryu with experience in this match-up with just j.mk during Chun’s Hikoken recovery c.mk then ex tatsu (or regular tatsu) her, and push her back out to the other side of the screen (and no, Chun can not block this string if Ryu hits that j.mk, in fact no one can) Then you have lost a lot of health and lost your corner advantage. The Hikoken is the wrong move for a Ryu in the corner.

  2. Yes, but only if they’re that dumb. Which a lot of scrubs are. A very common tactic my wifee uses agains all Hado characters is to let them spam with the Hado, jump over one or two, block the second or third, then U1 through the third or fourth. She has huge success with it. She also can impeccably time U1 to open as SOON as they pull out the Hado. I have only seen her mis-time it 2 or 3 times.

3)No arguments here. Chun absolutely dominates Ryu in the air. Period. Only times I have beat her is if she jumps AFTER I do, and I already have the mk motion started, or if I whip out mp and she attempts an air grab.

52

on statement 1 i probably should have said throw the fireball as they get up so they cant jump it. Thats typically how I do it. Keep the person in wakeup mode, followed by well timed kikokens and theres very little they can do (one of the few things that comes to mind is an EX shoryuken, but thats extremely risky and they often end up right back where i had them), and they dont have enough time to tatsu, if they try to do cr.mk they get hit with the fireball. Chun is such a beast in the corner, and its party due to her fireball shenanigans.

I dont really play tournament players on a regular basis, so I dont know what to do in that kind of a situation, but as for the average chun playing against xbla ryus, this is a good tactic that works in my experience.

53

Trust me I used to do so bad and get my ass whoops by ryu too.

It was terrible.

Keep in mind the key to beating shoto Ryu is to fuck around with them
But learning how to fuck aroun with them is hard
By that i don’t mean not taking the match seriously but I mean you should make yourself unpredictable

  • predict SRK as they are very predictable. Usually used on wake up, jump in, or at ANY time that they feel insecure or “harmed”… What I mean is if you have a mixup of nonstop beating a Ryus ass, that’s good, keep it up but keep in MIND that a random dp is coming if the Ryu feels pressured

  • another typical SRK to be expected is during hit resets. Say a Ryu player and you jump in and attack with some basics. And then say you hit the Ryu player, and so you have him in a hit reset, but since you hit him you are landing toward him, his face nearly. shotos will dp at this moment that you are in front of them

  • j.rh can be countered if you walk back and press st.fierce or sweep them

  • throws are VERY useful too. Once you have make your shoto opponent player understand that their wakeup SRK is a bad option, you have more options to attack them on wakeup. Throwing is one of them. Because if most shotos stop dp’ing then they will just crouch there or throw c.basics. Sooooo what you should do is just walk over an throw him down into the ground again

  • Ryus c.sweep can be punished with chun li’s sweep even on block hit. Try it, it works.

  • If you are up close and a Ryu does a c.mk Into hadouken combo, block it. And yes you can punish this. Since you blocked, Ryu is still recovering from his hadouken, and you have a small amount of time to punish him. Now what to do? You can mash ex legs and link it into an ultra combo. But you have to be mashing legs ahead of time

  • you can fuck around with Ryu once he is knocked down and is waking up. When you see a Ryu wake up, walk up right in front of the Ryu. This makes them think they can SRK
    You, throw you, or link a basic. But none of these will work if you time your counter correctly. An this counter is j.rh. Do Jumping back rh away right when he is about to get up

  • some Ryu players will not even counter on wakeup, and will dash back. Expect them to dash back, and just sweep them on the recovery frames of their dash

  • sweep instantly when you see a hurricane kick within sweeping range

  • another good thing do on Ryu’s wakeup is this. Walk right in front of his face and wait for him to get up. Right before he gets up, dash back. Why dash? Say if he did a dp, throw or whatever else attempt, you have dashed back to avoid it and have time to punish him. Not saying this is 100% effective but most Ryu players are reactive in wakeup

Just keep in mind that you must prepare yourself for what he will do next and use that to punish him

Most Ryus players are reactive on wakeup, under pressure, and random times.

Use some of the tricks I gave you here or you can watch my vids and see how badly I fuck some Ryu players up

The key to besting Ryu is to know what he is gonna do and prepare for tricks that he will set himself up for.

Watch videos of good chun li players playing against Ryu and you’ll get to know the matchup better

54

Ryu players who know what they are doing will not be as predictable with their shoryuken usage as you claim them to be. Whilst most of these tactis work on low level to mid level play, I can almost guarantee that no Ryu player of a high calibre will shoryuken without having a contingency plan i.e two super metre bars for a focus cancel. They will most likely block, crouch tech throw attempts, and react accordingly to your baits. I would not recommend doing a jumpback hk, bar the exception of a finishing move that would kill them, because even on hit, this is still punishable with a dash sweep (maybe even a walk up sweep) - I learnt the hard way. Dashing back to bait shoryuken can be punished with ex fireball if the read is on point.

If you are really serious about beating good Ryu players, use frame traps and whiff punishes to beat him on wakeup. Baiting can only get you so far. And real players rarely just shoryuken without thinking about the consequences on wakeup.

55

yeah I know, I’ve played Ryu players from all sorts of skill levels. But I’ll tell you, a lot of the stuff I posted above even works on the high leveled Ryu players that I have played. I do agree that what I posted does not work 100% of the time. if a Ryu player does not SRK on wake up, that is why I said just walk up and throw them, or sweep them if you see them dash back on wakeup

It all depends, I basically spilled information on what works best for me, and usually 95% of the time, they do work. but I play with a very offensive, fast-pace, gimmicky and tricky Chun-Li. Most Chun-Li players are very passive and prefer to turtle or remain calm.

I fought against TheVangster’s Ryu and he was NOT an easy Ryu, but a lot of the tricks I posted above worked. it was more difficult to land these tricks though due to his very impressive Ryu skills at the time…

Baiting SRKs is pretty easy once you get the hang of it… all you have to do is pretend like you will attack and open up an opportunity for them to SRK when really you arent

56

What do you define as high-level? High BP players? If that’s all you have to go by, then you have a preconceived and ill-informed perception of what high-level play is. I watched your games against The Vangster and to be completely honest with you, I wouldn’t call him a high level Ryu player. I’ll admit, that his execution is very good, but he has next-to-nothing footsies and very poor defense which consequently makes him panic under duress when being pressured on wakeup. This panic often manifests itself in the form of reckless dps. If he actually utilised crouch techs while you were baiting him, he would have executed a c.lk, and lead into a blockstring on you instead. Throwing a meaty kikoken on his wakeup would be a much preferred option as you’ll either force him to block or focus backdash on wakeup, both of which would give you better baiting and punish options.

I’ll agree to an extent that the things you suggested have it’s place in high level play, but if you’re saying to me that the matchup is as elementary as baiting shoryukens and being able to win the match off this one-dimensional play, I will sit here and laugh at you. Playing offensive is an attractive playstyle, and one which I myself advocate quite strongly, but you have to pick your battles accordingly.

If you want to see a high level matchup, watch Alex Valle vs Shizza during the EVO2K10.
[media=youtube]ZPLSUCuFRl4&feature=related[/media]

TheVangster is nowhere near the calibre of Valle and John Choi. He exemplifies the type of mid-level player I was referring to in my previous post.

57

@GunslingerMeeks
High-level / mid-level are relative.
Daigo as an example of High-level ryu… there is no higher level ryu than Daigo :slight_smile:
To me, any high-level player is someone with higher level than me, and i feel myself as a mid-level player, even when i know i’m lower than the 95% of this forum. Any mid-level player, as you exemplified, would own me for sure.

The ryu’s i fight do random shoryukens, they do panic, and they do unsafe things… but i do too.
Every time i assume i can pressure him feeling that he won’t do a shoryuken for fear of my punish, they do… and every time i block a shoryuken feeling i baited it… it don’t come out and i lose momentum.
I’m still a scrub player.

**To me, the problem with this matchup **(among others) is that is really easy for ryu to utilize his tools against us because each jump-in is not punished enough to make him stop jumping.
I sure can c.mp his jump-in hk, or i can meet him in mid-air with hp, or an air-throw, or normal jump hk…
…but if i mess up and he succeed in his jump-in (or i block it and he begins the pressure / tick throw game) his reward is greater than my punish when i do punish him :frowning:

I feel i need more solid anti-air or punish, but df.lk into combo usually gets beaten by his j.hk, and i don’t know how to scare ryu :frowning:

Sorry for being a noob chun-li and noob player and thanks for your answers.

58

just wondering, how often do you guys use hazanshu in this matchup? so far it’s been more of a liability than an asset.

59

over fireballs , in counter hit setups and some times after a focus, anything else is asking to be dragon punched

60

The level of play, IMO can be broken up like so:

Low-level (Scrubs) - Very poor knowledge of the game. They abuse a character’s strengths to no end e.g spamming hp.shoryukens with Ken. They have no footsies and meander around the screen like a headless chicken. There is no defense, and their offense revolves around mashing buttons and hoping for the best. Their wins are considered flukes/lucky and will take their win anyway they can.

Mid-Level - Moderate knowledge of the game. These players generally have trained long enough to get their bread and butter combos down pat and can execute relatively difficult link combos. You’ll find most of these players online. They employ moderate usage of footsies - pokes and throwing out empty normals to bait jump ins; have mediocre defense - can block and mash reversals on blockstrings, and minimal use of crouch techs; basic mind games - baiting reversals and jump ins. Their offense on block consists of very simple blockstrings like j.hk, c.mk xx fireball (taking Ryu as an example).

High-level - High understanding of the game and in-game mechanics. These players have extremely good execution with a high level of consistency. They control space exceptionally well, and employ advanced techniques like safe jumps, option-selects, and frame-traps. They very rarely waste an opportunity when they get in on you and will press their advantage when you are on a defensive guard, often trying to fish for counter-hits or a whiff punish to set up a possible combo for big damage. Watch Sako and Daigo to see what I mean. Their punishes are often maximised for damage and are rarely wasted on sweeps or throws. Defenses are solid, and throw attempts are merely pointless exercise. High level players are also highly experienced in tournaments, enabling them good reading under pressure.

This is a fairly concise summary of what I believe the type of players that exists playing SSF4. Just because a player is better than you, doesn’t necessarily make him a high-level player (though that could very well be the case but not always). It just means he knows the matchup better than you do.

And there’s no need to apologise for being a noob chun-li. Everyone has to start out somewhere. If you’re willing to accept your deficiencies as a player and have the will to improve and get better, that’s all that matters. Learning is a respectable quality for any player of any level.

61

Chun Li is the lead guitar to Ryu’s drums. It’s very difficult if you’re not experienced with it. He establishes the rhythm with hadouken and shoryuken, and you have to play along to it, weaving in between his timings with hasanshus and supers. There’s no soloing it out, you have to play to his rhythm.

62

From experience, imo it depends on the caliber of Ryu’s you’re fighting against and whether or not you get a head start imo.

Get an early lead, and disrupt the Ryu’s day with s. mp’s and frustrate his jump ins with s. mk and c. mp and sometimes :mp: kikoken (e.g. from experience, a lot of lesser experience people miscalculate it and end jump getting anti-aired by it). This scares them into not jumping. Consequently, if this means they stay grounded and just keep on fireballing, they might forget about Ultra 1. Little things like that…

63

Against jump ins I will use standing :mk:, jumping :hk:, back jump :hk:, or simple dash forward. The dash is one of the most practical and universal uses as Chun’s dash speed is good. Most of the time you can get under them. Then FADC their jab or sweep or what ever they are trying to do after the jump in. You can also sweep or throw them if they are confused enough by the dash.

64

I know this thread is not specific to scrubby Ryu’s but let me chime in on something that maybe newbies can use. I’m a beginner and I used to get defeated by shoto characters that probably would be considered scrubby on here all the time.

The way I started winning was essentially to start turtling and punishing mistakes (they make a lot) rather than going on the offensive. When I would try to go on the offense, I would just get shoryuken-mashed to death, because I’m not good enough yet to be able to safely put on pressure and avoid that.

Obviously I will keep trying to improve on that, but my reccomendation for beginners who are tired of getting defeated by who they percieve to be “shoto scrubs” is to be defensive and punish. (Also, do a dash towards them at wakeup and then eat a shoryuken - I guarantee they will then do this every single time later on, and you can block and punish every single time after.)